Incredible after all the money spent and additional work done at this station.
Rumors about Amtrak move to the MIC at Miami International Airport (not happening)
- Thread starter joelkfla
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Open, transparent communications is one of Amtrak's major failings. "Stuff" happens and if reasons behind it are communicated clearly, logically and concisely even major corportations are often given benefit of the doubt. But Amtrak, unfortunately, chooses to be obtuse and opaque so much of the time and it is a major turn off to even its most ardent supporters. I do not sit in specific judgment of individuals Amtrak leadership, as many others do. But this has been their culture for eons; it is nothing new under the current leadership. In general there needs to be a culture shift to being more transparent and being less difficult to work with, in general. I am not optimistic it will happen.
Categorically I agree. This also applies to state and local transit agencies - agencies that likewise including in my state are often not always the most transparent. Seems like a collective failure here.
As to the degree of assigning blame in this particular case I’ve heard enough about the back and forth that I’d like to hear a bit more on what the sticking points in the current round of talks that began in 2022 were before I form my final conclusive opinions.
Obviously Amtrak comes off with a not great look in the report that’s out but there are of course two sides to every story and I would like to see if their perspective and side of things comes out (whether officially or through back channels).
It’s reasonable to assume the backup move and operational costs on Amtrak’s side were a factor here, but what I don’t have full clarity on was did Amtrak propose things that could have mitigated some of their sticking points and make it more workable from their perspective (such as putting the wye track back in just north of MIC to shorten the backup move) that the other parties either rejected categorically or were there logjams on who was going to pay for what?
I’d just like to hear a bit more about what went on between 2022 and 2024 before I say inflexibility at Amtrak was the only thing at work here. I’m not denying the possibility that it was a factor or the primary factor - but I don’t want to discount the possibility that there was contributing inflexibility on the Florida/local side of things until we see if more comes out.
As to the degree of assigning blame in this particular case I’ve heard enough about the back and forth that I’d like to hear a bit more on what the sticking points in the current round of talks that began in 2022 were before I form my final conclusive opinions.
Obviously Amtrak comes off with a not great look in the report that’s out but there are of course two sides to every story and I would like to see if their perspective and side of things comes out (whether officially or through back channels).
It’s reasonable to assume the backup move and operational costs on Amtrak’s side were a factor here, but what I don’t have full clarity on was did Amtrak propose things that could have mitigated some of their sticking points and make it more workable from their perspective (such as putting the wye track back in just north of MIC to shorten the backup move) that the other parties either rejected categorically or were there logjams on who was going to pay for what?
I’d just like to hear a bit more about what went on between 2022 and 2024 before I say inflexibility at Amtrak was the only thing at work here. I’m not denying the possibility that it was a factor or the primary factor - but I don’t want to discount the possibility that there was contributing inflexibility on the Florida/local side of things until we see if more comes out.
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acelafan
Conductor
True there are always 2 sides to a story so I hope we learn more. I lived in Miami years ago when this whole thing was being planned...it was going to be very convenient to get off the train and grab a car or make a transit connection to get downtown.
It's not as if the intermodal center or the Hialeah yards moved their locations. A sigificant backup move was always going to be required but there were also benefits to customers. Also, as mentioned above someone had to pay for the reconfiguration of roadways, intersections, signals etc at Amtrak's insistence. So for them to unexpectedly walk away is a lesson to others of why spend your time working with Amtrak if all they do is drag their feet and potentially walk away at the end of the day (or the end of 8 years?)
It's not as if the intermodal center or the Hialeah yards moved their locations. A sigificant backup move was always going to be required but there were also benefits to customers. Also, as mentioned above someone had to pay for the reconfiguration of roadways, intersections, signals etc at Amtrak's insistence. So for them to unexpectedly walk away is a lesson to others of why spend your time working with Amtrak if all they do is drag their feet and potentially walk away at the end of the day (or the end of 8 years?)
Very true and from my experience when back and forth finger pointing goes on the truth is usually somewhere in the middle with fault to go around. That’s kind of why I’m curious to see if anymore comes out.
Having said that it wouldn’t surprise me if not much does as Amtrak seems to compartmentalize even when being more transparent would be in their benefit in the blame game department and I guess they can’t complain about one sided stories becoming the narrative most people accept as the truth if they refuse to comment or share their perspective on their decision making (or offer anything that the other side might be conveniently leaving out about the last couple years of talks when interviewed.)
It’s one of my biggest criticisms of Amtrak. If they’d be more up front about things and provide more transparency there would probably be less conspiracy theories out there about some of the stuff they do.
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For US railroads, everything comes down to real estate usually. What I see is that Amtrak's got a station in Hialeah that they probably own free and clear. That property has likely appreciated in value quite a bit since they acquired it, which is a plus for the balance sheet. If I have my facts straight, Miami was asking Amtrak to replace that asset with a lease, which is an expense, plus add on additional labor costs to bring trains to the MIC plus whatever other operational headaches using a facility they had minimal input on during its design and construction. Unless Miami really offered a sweetheart deal on this lease, it wasn't likely to work financially for Amtrak. They don't have another dime to spend (or lose) operating their trains to Miami right now. On top of that, there might be future opportunities to make the MIC work but once they shut down the Hialeah station (especially if they were forced to sell it off) there would be no going back.
blueman271
OBS Chief
Does Amtrak exist to serve the traveling public or does it exist to serve itself? If it’s the former there isn’t a single good reason to stay at the current location. If it’s the latter then all the points you have made are valid and Amtrak is once again acting in their own best interest to the detriment of the traveling public.
acelafan
Conductor
And then it took Amtrak 8, 15, 25+ years to figure out this whole thing was bad for their bottom line? Gee whiz, but I guess we should not be surprised.
Using MIC might be such a significant expense that the financial stability of the Silvers/Floridian might be compromised, and they might have to go back to the Silver Starvation or flex meals.
It’s possible there was some sort of sticking point. This is pure speculation but if I had to guess what happened was one of two things.
One of the two possibilities I think is most likely is they got into some kind of impasse funding or otherwise on some improvement that Amtrak wanted done as a condition (if Amtrak for example said they’d only do it if a wye was put back in at the MIC so they could eliminate the long backup move and turn right there and back in to the platform. Another possibility is Amtrak pushed for permanent closure of the street the front of the train would block.)
The other possibility besides an impasse on conditions I think could be Amtrak was hoping to try to push for a state supported service within Florida but through talks it seemed that Florida would not likely pursue it any time soon and they lost interest in the MIC if such a thing became apparent. Pure speculation - unless Amtrak or anyone at TriRail, the state, or county or anyone else who was privy to the discussions says more we may never know.
One of the two possibilities I think is most likely is they got into some kind of impasse funding or otherwise on some improvement that Amtrak wanted done as a condition (if Amtrak for example said they’d only do it if a wye was put back in at the MIC so they could eliminate the long backup move and turn right there and back in to the platform. Another possibility is Amtrak pushed for permanent closure of the street the front of the train would block.)
The other possibility besides an impasse on conditions I think could be Amtrak was hoping to try to push for a state supported service within Florida but through talks it seemed that Florida would not likely pursue it any time soon and they lost interest in the MIC if such a thing became apparent. Pure speculation - unless Amtrak or anyone at TriRail, the state, or county or anyone else who was privy to the discussions says more we may never know.
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acelafan
Conductor
I like to beat a dead horse some more 
so here's an Op-Ed about local efforts to have the incoming DC administration hold Amtrak's feet to the fire:
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2025/01/08/federal-action-needed-on-amtrak-derailment-of-miami-hub/
I am not sure I would hold my breath on that one, but there are some good points made about the current lack of local connectivity in Hialeah compared to the long-proposed facility. I lived in Miami 2002-2011 and while the Hialeah facility is not awful in its own right, it's just not very convenient for travelers. The proposed airport location is not downtown but it offers better local connectivity options.
so here's an Op-Ed about local efforts to have the incoming DC administration hold Amtrak's feet to the fire:https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2025/01/08/federal-action-needed-on-amtrak-derailment-of-miami-hub/
I am not sure I would hold my breath on that one, but there are some good points made about the current lack of local connectivity in Hialeah compared to the long-proposed facility. I lived in Miami 2002-2011 and while the Hialeah facility is not awful in its own right, it's just not very convenient for travelers. The proposed airport location is not downtown but it offers better local connectivity options.
Went past the MIC on the way to the airport this morning, the Amtrak logo that used to be on the front of the building is gone now.
blueman271
OBS Chief
I did a little research and it seems like in 2023 Metrobus “modernized” the bus network and dropped all service to the Amtrak station. So there is currently no public transportation whatsoever at the Miami Amtrak station. Which is a joke from a passenger connectivity standpoint for an area as large and crowded as Dade County.I like to beat a dead horse some more
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2025/01/08/federal-action-needed-on-amtrak-derailment-of-miami-hub/
I am not sure I would hold my breath on that one, but there are some good points made about the current lack of local connectivity in Hialeah compared to the long-proposed facility. I lived in Miami 2002-2011 and while the Hialeah facility is not awful in its own right, it's just not very convenient for travelers. The proposed airport location is not downtown but it offers better local connectivity options.
Bostontoallpoints
Service Attendant
The way I see it. The Miami airport station should not have been built unless the design was signed off and approved by Amtrak. At this point what is the cost to upgrade the existing station to make it acceptable to Amtrak? Is it practical and are there alternatives? What about putting in a walkway with easy access to the Metrorail/ Tri Rail station that is next to the existing Amtrak Miami station?I like to beat a dead horse some more
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2025/01/08/federal-action-needed-on-amtrak-derailment-of-miami-hub/
I am not sure I would hold my breath on that one, but there are some good points made about the current lack of local connectivity in Hialeah compared to the long-proposed facility. I lived in Miami 2002-2011 and while the Hialeah facility is not awful in its own right, it's just not very convenient for travelers. The proposed airport location is not downtown but it offers better local connectivity options.
blueman271
OBS Chief
The Tri Rail Metrorail transfer station has been there for almost 36 years. If there were any will or care for a direct connection it would have been done already.
Bostontoallpoints
Service Attendant
MIC has been open for 15 years starting with the car rental center. Metro rail opened a station at MIC in 2012. If there were any will or care for an Amtrak station there it would have been done already.
blueman271
OBS Chief
Your dates are incorrect and your history is a little fuzzy. The very first part of what eventually became the MIC was the Tri-Rail station that opened there in 1998. Then the Rental Car Center opened in 2010, Metrorail in 2012, and the new and improved Tri-Rail station in 2015. I’ll grant you that I’m no mathematician but 10 seems like a lot less than 36 to me. What’s more, the only thing Amtrak would need to do to connect to the Metrorail/Tri-Rail transfer station is cut a hole in a fence and slap down a concrete walkway. That seems a whole lot easier than negotiating contracts with the state, finding funding to buy a new locomotive, and hiring new yard employees doesn’t it?
Bostontoallpoints
Service Attendant
The 10 passengers that rode this bus to the Amtrak station annually are extremely disappointed.
Every time I arrived at this station I took a cab (or Uber) either to or from the station like everyone else. I don't think I ever saw someone waiting for the bus or being dropped off by the bus.
Devil's Advocate
⠀⠀⠀
Not always. Sometimes one side is honest to a fault with a history of telling the truth to their own detriment while the other side is a compulsive liar with a long history of endless deflecting and scapegoating.
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blueman271
OBS Chief
Leaving aside the fact that you actually have no idea how people arrive and depart from the station, your anecdotal experience shouldn’t inform transit connectivity in a place with over 4 million residents. I’ve never taken the bus to or from NYP so obviously the MTA shouldn’t stop there anymore. See how ridiculous that sounds? It’s almost as ridiculous as the Miami Amtrak station not having any transit connections.
Bostontoallpoints
Service Attendant
You repeated my dates so they are correct. My history is a little fuzzy considering Tri-Rail has been there for 27 years which is a lot closer to 36. Whatever number 10, 15 or 36 years signals a lack of desire to me. I agree with you about cutting a hole in a fence and adding a path. So essentially there is no desire for Amtrak or the city of Miami to connect Amtrak to local transportation. Either at the existing train station or the new station. For me personally it would have been easier getting a rental car or returning a rental at MIC on my trips rather than grabbing a cab. Most people I have observed at the Amtrak station are either dropped off or picked up by cabs. Many people may be getting off at Hollywood and taking Tri rail from there.
I think the backup move for Amtrak at MIC is too much and should have been addressed earlier in the project. If intermodal transportation is the goal then just cut the hole in the fence and lay the concrete in Hialeah and be done with it. I'll just keep taking the cab to the car rental center. Me and the other 2 people who do this will survive.
Bostontoallpoints
Service Attendant
I didn't think my observations informed transit connectivity. I take Amtrak twice a year back and forth from Miami annually. I was just providing an observation. There are only 2 Amtrak trains arriving and departing every day in Miami. How many people practically would a local bus serve at this location? It appears non of the rail yard workers were taking the bus other wise it would have remained in service. Do you really think people in mass were taking a local bus with luggage to connect to a long distance train? Changing buses etc?
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