Rumors are flying

[battalion51]

Rumors are flying around like crazy down here that the Palmetto bug will be cut back to Savannah come October. Gunn has been hell bent on cutting this train back since he came in office, and it might come true. At one point last year it was close to being cut back to Jacksonville, but that didn't happen. With Mechanical being disolved in JAX, the Palmetto would be cut back to Savannah, with the creation of a small mechanical force there and a Ready Crew to prepare the interior of the train for the trip north. 3 Utility Person jobs are currently being advertised in Savannah, which means Ready Crew. This is prett much appears to be a done deal, but things do fall through as they did last year.

As far as service to Tampa goes there are two scenarios at this point, either A: Trains will be split at JAX once again creating daylight service on the S-Line. Scenario B was discussed heavily last year where the Silver Star would begin in Miami, run Railroad North to Auburndale, head Railroad South (directionally west) to Tampa, and then head Railraod North (directionally east) back to Auburndale and continue on its normal route. As far as back tracking is concerned it is only an additional 80 miles to the route, whereas the Palmetto currently adds 60 miles to its route by going to Tampa, so there is no big cost mileage wise, and will probably only add 1:30 the Round Trip for the Star.

Once again none of this is set in stone, but its foundation is being poured.

 

[engine999]

If the palmetto has to go :angry: I would see it fit best have a split train, although the star back tracking is not a bad idea. The less work they have to do in jax probably the better. Dose anyone know how many poeple use the stations on the S line.

 

[engine999]

Actually the train only to sav is almost exactly like the originol palmetto train. It ran daylight from sav to dc and I believe nyp.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Why not cut palmetto entirely, make sunset LAX-NOL only, and make a new daily NOL-SFA, running it S-Line Jax down to Tampa, then east past Lakeland, Kissimmee, Orl, Wpk, terminating at SFD. It could use the shared sunset-autotrain superliners. That way the S-Line would still be active past Tampa, Lakeland, and Ocala. in addition, it would finally provide Tampa to Orlando daily service. And since it wouldn't go west of NOL, it should run at least a reasonable OTP. And it would give us a daily connex from Miami, Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, Savannah, and CHS over to NOL. The palmetto route north of jax is already duplicated anyway on silver service. This way they wouldn't lose any service they already have (S-line) and would gain Orlando-Tampa plus a daily run past Tallahassee to NOL. Daily service would be available Chicago through to Tallahassee, ORL, Tampa, & Miami.

 

[efin98]

Wouldn't that rerouting be limited by the USDoT loan agreement?

 

[AmtrakWPK]

It would be either neutral or a net decrease in system LDT mileage, I think, removing palmetto's mia-wth and jax-nyp segments, and simply making an existing route segment daily instead of 3x/wk each way, and also adding an additional daily wth-sfd each way, and would not really start new routes, since all that trackage I'm speaking of already has Amtrak trains on it, between those points, just not in exactly the same order or frequency. But it would improve connectivity between daily services that now have no daily connectivity (NOL and points east.) It should at least slightly improve sunset otp even though NOL and to the east isn't the big problem child. And with sunset frequently 24 hours late e-bound to NOL, there would be a daily connect there for it e-bound. Seems like it would make a completely chaotic section of the system (sunset E. of NOL) much more dependable, and should certainly reduce the chaos of what must be a stressful, unpredictable situation at SFA's maintenance and car prep facility, where sunset is gone over after each trip and prepared for the next W-bound sunset. The total absurdities of sunset's arrivals at Sanford really need something done. That sunset arrival and departure situation at the Orlando end (one of Amtrak's biggest vacation destinations, no less!!) has got to be a horrible thorn in Amtrak's side, a horrendous embarassment. There has just GOT to be some REAL serious money being lost by pax and by Amtrak because of all the hotel rooms, rental cars, missed plane or cruise-ship connections, and what-not that all those late pax must be getting all fouled up. During the trip, they frequently can't even predict what DAY that train is going to arrive, much less what hour. It's got to be in the hundreds of thousands of dollars per month of losses caused to pax and Amtrak, I would think.

 

[engine999]

Maybe the sunset could offer a through car from la so pax traveling the entire sunset route dont have to transfer trains. If they miss the connection they can be put on the next days train.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Certainly some kind of change has got to happen. As I see it, the sunset's status quo does more harm than good to Amtrak. I wonder event what brought on the current annulments (no more sunset departures until Sunday [LA] and Tuesday [ORL]).

 

[National Limited]

What are the reasons that there would be a consideration of cancellation of the Palmetto south of Savannah?

 

[engine999]

My guess is the abandoment of roadrailers as a big reason and not enough ridership south of jax.

 

[AmtrakWPK]

Is there really enough pax load for both Meteor and Palmetto North of Jax, though?? Could they just add a couple of cars to the Meteor, maybe a coach and a sleeper (which Palmetto doesn't have, or a diner), possibly adjust the schedule a little, and handle with Meteor??

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Why not cut palmetto entirely, make sunset LAX-NOL only, and make a new daily NOL-SFA, running it S-Line Jax down to Tampa, then east past Lakeland, Kissimmee, Orl, Wpk, terminating at SFD. It could use the shared sunset-autotrain superliners. That way the S-Line would still be active past Tampa, Lakeland, and Ocala. in addition, it would finally provide Tampa to Orlando daily service. And since it wouldn't go west of NOL, it should run at least a reasonable OTP. And it would give us a daily connex from Miami, Orlando, Tampa, Jacksonville, Savannah, and CHS over to NOL. The palmetto route north of jax is already duplicated anyway on silver service. This way they wouldn't lose any service they already have (S-line) and would gain Orlando-Tampa plus a daily run past Tallahassee to NOL. Daily service would be available Chicago through to Tallahassee, ORL, Tampa, & Miami.

Please remember this one thing!!! This is Amtrak, and anything that makes sense or halfway makes sense most likely will not be implemented. If it is "bassackwards" then it may make it! Everything seems to be a trial operation, and is changed evey so often depending on the regime. This has been occuring for the last thirty years!!!

And by the way regarding that scenario you state in your posting, it looks to me as if there would be even more of an operational headache than there is with the current "Palmetto." I may be wrong, though after all, this is Amtrak we're talking about!

 

[Amfleet]

Cutting the Palmetto from SAV to MIA does save on equipment. Instead of the normal 4 trainsets required for the Palmetto now, only 2 would be required if it went only as far south as SAV. It will also cut onboard service positions that are currently required between SAV and MIA. If the Star splits in JAX then operations crews will be required for the JAX-TPA portion, but not the TPA-MIA portion as required today (which is actualy JAX-Auberndale-MIA). So in a sense you cutting costs and crews in half. Also, since Amtrak lost its mail contract no mail would need to be carried on 89 between PHL and JAX after 10/1.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Cutting the Palmetto from SAV to MIA does save on equipment. Instead of the normal 4 trainsets required for the Palmetto now, only 2 would be required if it went only as far south as SAV. It will also cut onboard service positions that are currently required between SAV and MIA. If the Star splits in JAX then operations crews will be required for the JAX-TPA portion, but not the TPA-MIA portion as required today (which is actualy JAX-Auberndale-MIA). So in a sense you cutting costs and crews in half. Also, since Amtrak lost its mail contract no mail would need to be carried on 89 between PHL and JAX after 10/1.

Yeah, but that will cause some of us to lose our jobs!!!!! Now Amtrak is gonna do what they wanna!! But there still are plenty of managers making fat salaries when the help is needed ON THE TRAINS!!!!! Hell as well as help is needed with the trains, the tracks, the service frequency in some areas, etc......

 

[National Limited]

When did Amtrak loose the mail? Hate to show ignorance but I didn't know that Amtrak still carried mail. Is mail and express the same thing?

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

When did Amtrak loose the mail? Hate to show ignorance but I didn't know that Amtrak still carried mail. Is mail and express the same thing?

Gunn cut the roadrailers not too long after he took office. There were a couple of contracts (one I know of on the FL trains) which were allowed to continue until another entity was found to assume them. I understand they are going to "Triple Crown," As far as the other mail contracts, I am unsure of the status of them, though plenty of rumors fly. However, Amtrak has one the BEST rumor mills there is, ANYWHERE!!!! :lol:

 

[A Voice]

If done right, this move could actually restore Florida service to a pattern rather similar to the early 1990's and previous: Palmetto NYP-Savannah, Star and/or Meteor split at Jacksonville (or Auburndale) and serve both the big Orlando market and the S-line (Tampa) during marketable (daytime) hours. And if it's so done right, it could even be a positive step. If.

Cutting the Palmetto to SAV saves two sets of equipment and operating costs SAV-JAX (running a split train from JAX via Tampa should be about neutral in costs compared to 89/90). This extra equipment can equip the new Tampa section of the Star/Meteor. The only real loss of service is Savannah-Jacksonville (6 trains a day to four), and perhaps south of Kissimmee. The new Palmetto could actually make JAX by midnight probably, if you got it out of NYP on the Carolinian's schedule and expedited it to D.C., if the ridership would make that worth doing (last years plan).

I could well be wrong, but I don't see the Silver Star "side-trip" plan coming, simply because it would mean abandoning service on the S line through Ocala. There's no reason to do that. If ridership isn't much there today, it might have something to do with the current levels of service (early a.m.) on the route.

Question is, where do you terminate the S-line train? Maintain equipment again at Tampa, or continue down to Miami minutes behind the Orlando train? A Tampa maintenance base incurs costs, something else I find it hard to see happening. For what it's worth, I'd turn the Tampa section north at Auburndale, serving Kissimmee and Orlando (only slightly later than the "proper" Orlando section) before finally ending up at Sanford (for servicing at existing facilities). But no one asked me, nor are they likely to, of course.

 

[battalion51]

Cutting the Palmetto from SAV to MIA does save on equipment. Instead of the normal 4 trainsets required for the Palmetto now, only 2 would be required if it went only as far south as SAV. It will also cut onboard service positions that are currently required between SAV and MIA. If the Star splits in JAX then operations crews will be required for the JAX-TPA portion, but not the TPA-MIA portion as required today (which is actualy JAX-Auberndale-MIA). So in a sense you cutting costs and crews in half. Also, since Amtrak lost its mail contract no mail would need to be carried on 89 between PHL and JAX after 10/1.

Actually Jon because of the length of the run they would still have a MIA based crew. The run for JAX would be to TPA, with Miami crews picking up TPA-MIA. The reason for that is that crews from JAX would outlaw a lot if they went the whole way to Miami. They would run to TPA instead of LAK like they do now because the scheduling would require a Fireman to run to Lakeland, but if they just run to TPA they won't need a Fireman on either side, so MIA crews would just have to get qualified out to TPA.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

But no one asked me, nor are they likely to, of course.

Yeah........I am with you there.........Amtrak doesn't even ask us!!!! LOL....

:lol:

 

[Viewliner]

I agree, that splitting the train sounds more realistic that the other method. I think if it happens it may indeed be an improvement in service. The only drawback I could see was it would take a sleeper away from ORL if one is placed on the TPA section. My other question would be would both sections still be running through to MIA? (sorry if it was already said)

 

[railman]

Yeah, but that will cause some of us to lose our jobs!!!!! Now Amtrak is gonna do what they wanna!!  But there still are plenty of managers making fat salaries when the help is needed ON THE TRAINS!!!!! Hell as well as help is needed with the trains, the tracks, the service frequency in some areas, etc......

Fat salaries?!?!? It seems to me when management hasn't had a raise of any kind in eight years yet union employees just got what amounts to an 8% raise in their new contracts some folks should keep their over-paid mouths SHUT!

 

[Amfleet]

Yeah, but that will cause some of us to lose our jobs!!!!! Now Amtrak is gonna do what they wanna!!  But there still are plenty of managers making fat salaries when the help is needed ON THE TRAINS!!!!! Hell as well as help is needed with the trains, the tracks, the service frequency in some areas, etc......

Fat salaries?!?!? It seems to me when management hasn't had a raise of any kind in eight years yet union employees just got what amounts to an 8% raise in their new contracts some folks should keep their over-paid mouths SHUT!

And with that raise I'm sure management is still getting paid more than any OBS employee.

 

[railman]

Don't be so sure about that...... The situation is known as salary compression and it's chronic at Amtrak.

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

Don't be so sure about that...... The situation is known as salary compression and it's chronic at Amtrak.

First off.....are you management? If not then, who are you to tell an employee who gives his all when he is on duty? Who ever said I was complaining, buster? I merely made a statement which I believe to be fact! And what you may not realize (if this is really any of your damned business) is when the new contract was signed and ratified, the raise was implemented to OFFSET other costs which we agreement covered employees were gonna have to take on. I.e the cost of our healthcare, etc. I was not and still am not opposed to paying some towards my health insurance being the cost of healthcare is rising as it is. So in all actuality, we did not get much of a raise, but it was a little something!!! I don't expect Amtrak to pay my whole way, and never will! The company and the union did a good job in my opinion with the new contract as far as how it affects me (which your kind may view as selfish)! And no one is gonna tell me the management doesn't make AT LEAST twice my salary for doing less of my work. I WORK ON THE FRONT LINES, PAL!!!! Management only has to deal with what I deal with when they have to. They have their own crap to deal with, and sometimes have to step up to the plate beside us. But I deal with the cranky passenger for their whole trip, I deal with the usual problems when it comes to working with the public. The manager does not! And farthermore, in my old job prior to my career in the railroad, I WAS A MANAGER! And the money I made (which could and would be considered by anyone a "FAT SALARY") wasn't worth that crap! :angry:

 

[Amtrak OBS Employee]

And with that raise I'm sure management is still getting paid more than any OBS employee.

Thanks Jon............