September Surprise from Amtrak

[Anderson]

So...any word on the surprise?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Whatever this announcement will be, it's going to be a disappointment to all concerned.

Probably.

Although it's always possible that everyone on AU has somehow missed a key piece of evidence, if the pending "surprise" was really important it stands to reason that someone here (or a friend/college/relative of a member) would have provided some sort of indication that a big announcement was just around the corner. Since that does not appear to be the case this is most likely nothing more than a PR stunt. If done well maybe we'll all get a chuckle out of it. If done poorly we might end up regretting the whole episode. Here's hoping it's more of the former than the later. -_-

 

[Lazy Z]

I believe it's the cutbank trestle.

Where is that?

 

[dlagrua]

I still say the surprise is the 50% bonus on points purchased. I believe that's the most generous offer that Amtrak has made to date. Sept is 11 days old so is it logical to assume that something is coming on Sept 30th? Maybe, but don't count on it.

 

[TraneMan]

I believe it's the cutbank trestle.

Where is that?

Just past Cutbank MT.

I looked at the photos, and it matches to that photo on FB. So, it may be Empire Builder related??

 

[Tumbleweed]

PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????

 

[jmbgeg]

PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????

That would be AWESOME!

 

[jmbgeg]

I still say the surprise is the 50% bonus on points purchased. I believe that's the most generous offer that Amtrak has made to date. Sept is 11 days old so is it logical to assume that something is coming on Sept 30th? Maybe, but don't count on it.

How about lifting the point purchase cap?

 

[Donctor]

PPC style car on the Empire Builder, maybe?????

Maybe a diner/lounge (CCC) operating as a first class lounge?

 

[stntylr]

I believe it's the cutbank trestle.

Where is that?

Just past Cutbank MT.

I looked at the photos, and it matches to that photo on FB. So, it may be Empire Builder related??

Then maybe the surprise is that the EB will run on time for a while.

 

[afigg]

Whatever this announcement will be, it's going to be a disappointment to all concerned.

Probably.

Although it's always possible that everyone on AU has somehow missed a key piece of evidence, if the pending "surprise" was really important it stands to reason that someone here (or a friend/college/relative of a member) would have provided some sort of indication that a big announcement was just around the corner. Since that does not appear to be the case this is most likely nothing more than a PR stunt. If done well maybe we'll all get a chuckle out of it. If done poorly we might end up regretting the whole episode. Here's hoping it's more of the former than the later. -_-

Calling it a PR stunt is a bit much. All Amtrak did was post a headline "Stay tuned in September for something special" with a photo on their Facebook page. I don't see any press releases or other teasers from Amtrak. Just a fairly modest teaser that people are taking and coming up with numerous impractical and obviously not going to happen ideas on what the something special is. People are speculating even over the meaning of the photo which is probably nothing more than a stock photo they used for the webpage.

Likely a minor "surprise", such as Wi-Fie being activated for the eastern Amfleet Is a few days early in September. October 1 is a Saturday, and I can't see them adding Wi-Fie on a weekend when they may need tech support staff to be available for the roll-out. Still fun to speculate about a positive development in the face of an all out attack on Amtrak from the Republican House.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Calling it a PR stunt is a bit much.

No need to take offense. We'll call it a "PR surprise" if that makes you happy. :lol:

People are speculating even over the meaning of the photo which is probably nothing more than a stock photo they used for the webpage.

If this guessing game turns out to be about some completely insignificant change that has absolutely nothing to do with the "clues" provided then I'd say it's a flop.

I can't see them adding Wi-Fie on a weekend when they may need tech support staff to be available for the roll-out.

That's not usually how tech support works for a major commercial project. If the SLA says support will be available then the phone will be answered, the tech will be dispatched, and the resolution will be forthcoming. Otherwise money will be changing hands in the opposite direction.

 

[amamba]

LOLOLOL

From today's amtrak update on Facebook:

Amtrak

Announcing National Train Day 2012! Join us May 12 as we once again celebrate America’s love for trains. Save the date, Trainiacs! http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

on.fb.me

Hopefully that wasn't their September surprise.

 

[jdcnosse]

LOLOLOL

From today's amtrak update on Facebook:

Amtrak

Announcing National Train Day 2012! Join us May 12 as we once again celebrate America's love for trains. Save the date, Trainiacs! http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

http://on.fb.me/hbaTWU

on.fb.me

Hopefully that wasn't their September surprise.

Who knows. I would have expected them to post something related to the original post but maybe it is. lol

They did post a little bit below that asking why we think train travel is at an all time high...

 

[spidersfan351]

As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.

The decision is made at Cleveland on the basis of there not being any switching done in Pittsburgh. If there were through cars in Pittsburgh, the "Cleveland cutoff" time would either not be there (i.e. a Pittsburgh cutoff instead of a Cleveland cutoff), or an earlier time would be specified at Cleveland.

And none of that precludes a change being made to implement this service before the tunnel work is over. If you add 15 minutes to the run time between CLE and the work site, either the CLE cutoff becomes 0315, or CSX accepts the fact that they MAY have to start work up to 15 minutes late. Certainly the 0330 cutoff provides some padding, so even if the train leaves CLE at 0320 and spends 15 extra minutes in PGH, it's possible that it'll get through the work site on time.

There's a little bit more involved in cutting a car than just opening the coupler and pulling away. You have to set handbrakes on the cars being cut, you have to shut off the HEP, you have to disconnect the HEP cables and the air hoses, separate the train, close the HEP loops, do an air test, etc. All that is on top of the normal station work (i.e. letting passengers off and on the train).

Thanks for stating the obvious - I'm well aware of that.

I spoke to a senior Amtrak official two weeks ago on a Capital Ltd run, he and another one of their marketing guys were riding together to Chicago. We had a great time, I think we probably talked for four or five hours about all things Amtrak. Obviously, I cannot tell you with certainty that everything he told me was spot on, but he knew what he was talking about, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me two things for sure in the very near future:

1. They are moving the schedule on the Sunset to depart LA around 10:30pm, so as to make the south/eastbound connection with the Coast Starlight. They will make up for this by losing the switching in San Antonio and running straight through to Texas/CHI. The Sunset Ltd between SAS and NOL will be only a stub train, he said probably two coaches, a sleeper and a CCC. No SSL. This will improve the route here, allowing for "reasonable" stops in Houston, and likely on a daily basis. How they are getting UP to grant them daily service from LAX-SAS I have no idea, but he spoke with confidence that if I wanted to see Pecos High Bridge in daylight, I'd better hurry and do it before the end of the year.

2. They are adding a sleeper to the back of the Pennsylvanian. I was surprised, I did not think they had the VL equipment to do it with, and told him so, but he said they do. He said this should take place before the end of the year. These will be added to the back of the Cap Ltd in Pittsburgh, and yes, they will run a trans-dorm on the back to make this possible. He said this made a dramatic improvement in the Capitol's financial performance when they ran the projections last year.

I would love a daily Cardinal, but he said they are still negotiating with CSX on that, and while it was a goal, it probably won't be as soon as the two I've mentioned above.

Again, this man was very knowledgable, so I'm pretty sure it's happening soon. I would put my money on these two.

 

[jis]

As far as "racing to make a cutoff window", that decision is made at Cleveland. The few minutes extra only comes into play in the narrow case where the train just barely makes the cutoff at CLE by whatever amount of time the switching takes and would only delay the start of work by the few minutes that it takes. Can't see that being a huge issue.

The decision is made at Cleveland on the basis of there not being any switching done in Pittsburgh. If there were through cars in Pittsburgh, the "Cleveland cutoff" time would either not be there (i.e. a Pittsburgh cutoff instead of a Cleveland cutoff), or an earlier time would be specified at Cleveland.

And none of that precludes a change being made to implement this service before the tunnel work is over. If you add 15 minutes to the run time between CLE and the work site, either the CLE cutoff becomes 0315, or CSX accepts the fact that they MAY have to start work up to 15 minutes late. Certainly the 0330 cutoff provides some padding, so even if the train leaves CLE at 0320 and spends 15 extra minutes in PGH, it's possible that it'll get through the work site on time.

There's a little bit more involved in cutting a car than just opening the coupler and pulling away. You have to set handbrakes on the cars being cut, you have to shut off the HEP, you have to disconnect the HEP cables and the air hoses, separate the train, close the HEP loops, do an air test, etc. All that is on top of the normal station work (i.e. letting passengers off and on the train).

Thanks for stating the obvious - I'm well aware of that.

I spoke to a senior Amtrak official two weeks ago on a Capital Ltd run, he and another one of their marketing guys were riding together to Chicago. We had a great time, I think we probably talked for four or five hours about all things Amtrak. Obviously, I cannot tell you with certainty that everything he told me was spot on, but he knew what he was talking about, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me two things for sure in the very near future:

1. They are moving the schedule on the Sunset to depart LA around 10:30pm, so as to make the south/eastbound connection with the Coast Starlight. They will make up for this by losing the switching in San Antonio and running straight through to Texas/CHI. The Sunset Ltd between SAS and NOL will be only a stub train, he said probably two coaches, a sleeper and a CCC. No SSL. This will improve the route here, allowing for "reasonable" stops in Houston, and likely on a daily basis. How they are getting UP to grant them daily service from LAX-SAS I have no idea, but he spoke with confidence that if I wanted to see Pecos High Bridge in daylight, I'd better hurry and do it before the end of the year.

2. They are adding a sleeper to the back of the Pennsylvanian. I was surprised, I did not think they had the VL equipment to do it with, and told him so, but he said they do. He said this should take place before the end of the year. These will be added to the back of the Cap Ltd in Pittsburgh, and yes, they will run a trans-dorm on the back to make this possible. He said this made a dramatic improvement in the Capitol's financial performance when they ran the projections last year.

I would love a daily Cardinal, but he said they are still negotiating with CSX on that, and while it was a goal, it probably won't be as soon as the two I've mentioned above.

Again, this man was very knowledgable, so I'm pretty sure it's happening soon. I would put my money on these two.

Plans could have changed since then since it is all an evolving situation, but I talked to a a gentleman who is a member of the PIP Committee, on the Cap and he gave the impression that item 1 above could happen this year and item 2 the next year. He did say that finding the Viewliner was not the biggest problem - worst case they could steal one from the Meteor since it does not run that full in the Sleeper apparently. It was working out the logistics in Pittsburgh. The issue had to do with staffing Pittsburgh with an additional crew or keeping the Pennsy crew on the clock to do the shunting at the rear of the Cap for the westbound. He also said that daily Cardinal is unlikely for the time being because of negotiation issues.

So I won't be surprised at all if the timing change of the Sunset happens. I will be somewhat surprised if the Pennys happens this year and I will be astonished if the Card daily happens this year.

 

[jdcnosse]

https://www.facebook.com/Amtrak/posts/10150306234159014

According to this post, the "surprise" hasn't been revealed yet. So it's not National Train Day 2012 (which would have been one heck of a surprise! NOT.)

 

[Trogdor]

I spoke to a senior Amtrak official two weeks ago on a Capital Ltd run, he and another one of their marketing guys were riding together to Chicago. We had a great time, I think we probably talked for four or five hours about all things Amtrak. Obviously, I cannot tell you with certainty that everything he told me was spot on, but he knew what he was talking about, so I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. He told me two things for sure in the very near future:

1. They are moving the schedule on the Sunset to depart LA around 10:30pm, so as to make the south/eastbound connection with the Coast Starlight. They will make up for this by losing the switching in San Antonio and running straight through to Texas/CHI. The Sunset Ltd between SAS and NOL will be only a stub train, he said probably two coaches, a sleeper and a CCC. No SSL. This will improve the route here, allowing for "reasonable" stops in Houston, and likely on a daily basis. How they are getting UP to grant them daily service from LAX-SAS I have no idea, but he spoke with confidence that if I wanted to see Pecos High Bridge in daylight, I'd better hurry and do it before the end of the year.

2. They are adding a sleeper to the back of the Pennsylvanian. I was surprised, I did not think they had the VL equipment to do it with, and told him so, but he said they do. He said this should take place before the end of the year. These will be added to the back of the Cap Ltd in Pittsburgh, and yes, they will run a trans-dorm on the back to make this possible. He said this made a dramatic improvement in the Capitol's financial performance when they ran the projections last year.

I would love a daily Cardinal, but he said they are still negotiating with CSX on that, and while it was a goal, it probably won't be as soon as the two I've mentioned above.

Again, this man was very knowledgable, so I'm pretty sure it's happening soon. I would put my money on these two.

The only part that might happen by the end of the year is the later #2 departure from LAX (and I would not call that "for sure" since the schedule change has not yet been approved by Union Pacific). The rest of it (stopping the switching in San Antonio and running a stub train SAS-NOL, and the through cars on the Capitol Limited to the Pennsylvanian) will not happen this year.

Otherwise, he was just repeating what was already mentioned in the PRIIA reports fo those routes (except that the stub Sunset will not have a sleeper).

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?

 

[Trogdor]

Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?

Palmetto (15 hours).

 

[Gratt]

OK they are really hamming it up.

just posted on FB

Amtrak

Something special is just around the corner!

Now it is two posts. At this point it better not be a temporary sale, or a new amenity like wifi. This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.

Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.

 

[MiRider]

OK they are really hamming it up.

just posted on FB

Amtrak

Something special is just around the corner!

Now it is two posts. At this point it better not be a temporary sale, or a new amenity like wifi. This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.

Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.

I disagree.

I would imagine that most of Amtrak's fb fans as well as the general passenger population aren't train fanatics nor are they all located in a specific geographical location with specific wish lists.

I believe that the *Something Special* will be just that.

Something that will interest and, hopefully, benefit the majority of their mainstream customers.

A sale, more AGR benefits, or wifi system wide would make me very happy.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.

I would assume that's pretty unlikely in an era of extreme budget cuts combined with severe restrictions on state funding. The only network level changes I'm expecting in the near future are reductions and discontinuations.

Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.

And to think they were looking so suave and sophisticated of late.

 

[afigg]

Fifteen hours in coach. Hmm. What's the longest coach-only segment in Amtrak's network anyway?

Palmetto (15 hours).

Thought it should be noted that the Palmetto covers 829 miles in the 15 hours from NYP to Savannah (15:20 northbound but that is padding) while the Sunset Limited covers 573 miles New Orleans to San Antonio. Of course, the first 225 miles are on the NEC, but the Palmetto has an engine change in DC. Works out to a 55 mph average speed overall, which makes Palmetto reasonably competitive to driving over long pieces of the route.

The SL east of San Antonio averages 38 mph which is pretty slow and does not help with ridership numbers. Are the tracks from NOL to SAS in poor condition or is the route jammed up with enough freight traffic that Amtrak has to add a lot of padding? Or both?

 

[afigg]

OK they are really hamming it up.

just posted on FB

Amtrak

Something special is just around the corner!

Now it is two posts. At this point it better not be a temporary sale, or a new amenity like wifi. This better be a new/restored line on the system or greatly improving service on a current line.

Otherwise Amtrak is going to look foolish.

Presumably means that the "surprise" will be announced in the next several days. Curious to see how much of a "Surprise!" it will be.

The guesses here and on Facebook have covered a very wide range of wish lists, many of which are never going to happen without years of public funding and construction work. Put me down for not a total out of the blue surprise, but an announcement that will be surprising to the skeptics who do not expect any improvements in anything.