Seven Subway Line

[MattW]

I was poking around Google Maps after reading a post about the Meadowlands Superbowl service, and I had an idea which relates to a 7 Subway extension to Secaucus. Namely, instead of the 7, why not PATH? What hit me is that PATH already crosses the Hudson river, and already has right of way in NJ. Here's a quick and dirty Google Map I created showing the line to Secacus, and the Meadowlands: http://goo.gl/maps/bjIax

However, as easy as this looks (HA!) I can see some problems in addition to the usual right of way, NIMBYism, etc., namely, you've just moved the transfer for Pascack, Main and Bergen County lines from Hoboken to Secaucus, and you still have to make the out of system transfer to the subway. In relation to this though, what's in the way of extending the PATH tracks to Times Square? The Broadway line?

This more a wacky idea of me trying to connect things than a serious idea, but I'm curious what others think of this. Unfortunately, the more I stare at the map, the more that I see the only real benefit is for access to the Meadowlands complex, which if it becomes a regular destination, is probably better served by NJT shuttle service due to the existing infrastructure.

 

[Andrew]

It is better for Main, Bergen County, and Pascack Valley Service to terminate at Hoboken (instead of Secaucus) because this also provides access to ferry service.

To come to think of it, though, if Seven Subway Extension to Secaucus had already opened for revenue service, than this would prove very HIGHLY USEFUL during events at the Meadowlands--including the Super Bowl!

I bet many out-of-towners will stay in Times Square, and would be more than happy using Seven to Secaucus if it had already opened. I just wonder since the only NJ Transit rail service is into Penn Station, if many out-of-towners will choose not to take the train to the Superbowl. I also wonder with the Denver Broncos playing the Seattle Seahawks in New Jersey, how that will impact NJ Train ridership on Super Sunday--and the days leading up to it.

 

[Ryan]

It's not like the Giants or Jets ever had a prayer of playing in the game.

 

[AlanB]

I bet many out-of-towners will stay in Times Square, and would be more than happy using Seven to Secaucus if it had already opened. I just wonder since the only NJ Transit rail service is into Penn Station, if many out-of-towners will choose not to take the train to the Superbowl. I also wonder with the Denver Broncos playing the Seattle Seahawks in New Jersey, how that will impact NJ Train ridership on Super Sunday--and the days leading up to it.

I bet most out-of-towners won't stay in Times Square since that area has some of the most expensive hotels in the entire area.

And since one had to buy tickets to the big game long before anyone knew which two teams would be playing in the Superbowl, that will have no impact on how many people ride the trains or don't. No one is going to spend that kind of dough on tickets and then not show up simply because they didn't like the two teams that ended up in the Superbowl.

 

[PRR 60]

Each participating team has an allotment of seats for the game that they distribute to season ticket holders usually using a lottery. Also, many seats and hotel rooms are pre-purchased by agents who now, with the teams known, will put them up for sale on the secondary market hoping to make a killing. There are some who will decide this week to attend.

I think it would neat to attend a Super Bowl, but I'm not sure it is worth the value of a new car to do so. And, Bruno Mars at halftime? Bon Jovi, Billy Joel, Bruce all in the neighborhood, and they came up with Bruno Mars? Really?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Each participating team has an allotment of seats for the game that they distribute to season ticket holders usually using a lottery. Also, many seats and hotel rooms are pre-purchased by agents who now, with the teams known, will put them up for sale on the secondary market hoping to make a killing. There are some who will decide this week to attend.

I think it would neat to attend a Super Bowl, but I'm not sure it is worth the value of a new car to do so. And, Bruno Mars at halftime? Bon Jovi, Billy Joel, Bruce all in the neighborhood, and they came up with Bruno Mars? Really?

Good Post Bill! Who the Hell is Bruno Mars??? :help:

 

[Andrew]

I wonder how many more people will take the Seven Subway Line because of Super Bowl festivities that will take place within Midtown, Manhattan next week.

 

[AlanB]

I wonder how many more people will take the Seven Subway Line because of Super Bowl festivities that will take place within Midtown, Manhattan next week.

5.

 

[jis]

I wonder how many more people will take the Seven Subway Line because of Super Bowl festivities that will take place within Midtown, Manhattan next week.

5.

Are you sure? It just may be 7 you know? :lol:

 

[AlanB]

I wonder how many more people will take the Seven Subway Line because of Super Bowl festivities that will take place within Midtown, Manhattan next week.

5.

Are you sure? It just may be 7 you know? :lol:

:lol: :lol:

 

[Ryan]

I'll bet you it's 6.

 

[jebr]

I'm going all in, guys. There's going to be 8 more riders!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[MikefromCrete]

I think there will be more riders on the 4 than the 7.

 

[tp49]

My bet is on 3.

 

[Fan Railer]

How about -7

 

[railiner]

What I don't 'get' about the anticipated parking problem and need for special mass transit to reach the Super Bowl stadium is....since the participating teams receive an alotment of seats to sell, it figures that a larger percentage of fans attending will be coming from out of town, hence less auto traffic then normal hometeam games there....

 

[Andrew]

I read this earlier today...

http://www.nysenate.gov/files/pdfs/Letter%20to%20Governor%20re%207%20Train%20Extension.pdf

 

[Fan Railer]

I read this earlier today...

http://www.nysenate.gov/files/pdfs/Letter%20to%20Governor%20re%207%20Train%20Extension.pdf

Not a bad case from a quick skim. We'll have to see if this gets anywhere.

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak recently released an update on their tunnel box. It sounds like construction is progressing well, but if they run into serious delays, the Gateway Project could get abandoned.

Then what?

 

[MattW]

The tunnel box could probably be delayed for 10 years and still wouldn't impact Gateway in any meaningful way. Gateway is a VERY long way off for now as many other people have tried to tell you.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

... There isn't even a shovel in the ground yet, Andrew. Let me make this clear to you, since you are completely lost. GATEWAY IS NEVER GETTING BUILT EVER EVER EVER. GATEWAY MAKES NO SENSE AT ALL. ESPECIALLY THE BLOCK 780 STATION EXPANSION, which is ENTIRELY not needed. Why people sit around supporting senseless projects I will never know. Various people, not the least of which was me, fought tooth and nail to kill ARC as a stupid, senseless project that did not serve the needs of the region.

Gateway is worse, and I will fight tooth and nail, in New York, at the New Jersey Statehouse, in Washington, and at Amtrak itself, to prevent its construction. I WILL FIGHT THIS PROJECT TO THE DEATH OF IT OR ME. There is no need for additional station capacity at Penn Station New York. There is no need for two more tunnels. With all due respect to Drew Galloway, the North River tunnels are just fine. We need, possibly, a single additional tunnel, some equipment changes on NJ Transit, some platform cleanup to improve passenger flow, improved service to Hoboken and Newark Penn, and utilization of more of the shoulders and off peak hours for passenger movement, easily done by encouraging such movement with fare incentives.

Gateway is stupid.

 

[afigg]

Amtrak recently released an update on their tunnel box. It sounds like construction is progressing well, but if they run into serious delays, the Gateway Project could get abandoned.

Then what?

Relax. The Amtrak OIG report - that you linked to at rr.net - states that the project is on schedule. The issue is that costs are running higher than originally expected and they used up most of the contingency funds already. If the tunnel box project needs some additional funding, then US DOT will tap the Sandy mitigation funds as needed. There are billions left in the mitigation funds. There is too much political support to build the tunnel box to protect the critical right of way for future Hudson river tunnels, even if getting the really big bucks to build the Hudson tunnels and bridges in NJ has a long road ahead.

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak recently released an update on their tunnel box. It sounds like construction is progressing well, but if they run into serious delays, the Gateway Project could get abandoned.

Then what?

Relax. The Amtrak OIG report - that you linked to at rr.net - states that the project is on schedule. The issue is that costs are running higher than originally expected and they used up most of the contingency funds already. If the tunnel box project needs some additional funding, then US DOT will tap the Sandy mitigation funds as needed. There are billions left in the mitigation funds. There is too much political support to build the tunnel box to protect the critical right of way for future Hudson river tunnels, even if getting the really big bucks to build the Hudson tunnels and bridges in NJ has a long road ahead.

I just hope that Phase 2 of the tunnel box will begin construction immediately following completion of Phase 1 of the tunnel box--or even before! I wonder if Amtrak could save money by tunneling directly under 31st between 11th and 12th avenues, instead of building another "concrete casing" southwest.

The reason why I originally asked my question is because I was wondering if Amtrak could not extend the tunnel box even more west if 7 to Secaucus would actually get built.

 

[jis]

Those two proposals (Gateway and 7 to Sec) are not connected in any direct way at all. Tunnel box phase 2 becomes an issue only when Hudson Yards project gets around to building their proposed building in that area, and not before that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Andrew]

Amtrak recently released an update on their tunnel box. It sounds like construction is progressing well, but if they run into serious delays, the Gateway Project could get abandoned.

Then what?

Relax. The Amtrak OIG report - that you linked to at rr.net - states that the project is on schedule. The issue is that costs are running higher than originally expected and they used up most of the contingency funds already. If the tunnel box project needs some additional funding, then US DOT will tap the Sandy mitigation funds as needed. There are billions left in the mitigation funds. There is too much political support to build the tunnel box to protect the critical right of way for future Hudson river tunnels, even if getting the really big bucks to build the Hudson tunnels and bridges in NJ has a long road ahead.

I just hope that Phase 2 of the tunnel box will begin construction immediately following completion of Phase 1 of the tunnel box--or even before! I wonder if Amtrak could save money by tunneling directly under 31st between 11th and 12th avenues, instead of building another "concrete casing" southwest.

The reason why I originally asked my question is because I was wondering if Amtrak could not extend the tunnel box even more west if 7 to Secaucus would actually get built.

Those two proposals (Gateway and 7 to Sec) are not connected in any direct way at all. Tunnel box phase 2 becomes an issue only when Hudson Yards project gets around to building their proposed building in that area, and not before that.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

I should have been more clear: I meant that Seven to Secaucus would be get built and constructed if--and only IF-- Amtrak was not able to acquire more property to construct Phase 2 of the Tunnel Box. (In other words, Gateway would be the priority--but Seven to Secaucus is Plan B or a back-up plan should Gateway for some reason not work out).

What is the chance that the Hudson Yards Project does not construct their buildings in that area over Phase 2 of the Concrete Casing?