Siemens Caltrans/IDOT Venture design, engineering, testing and delivery (2012-1Q 2024)

[TiBike]

That might be the case elsewhere, but in California, the only trains with Business Class are the Surfliner and Starlight. Both have 2x2 seating -- on the Surfliner, one car can even be split between business and coach class service, with just a sign marking the division. The benefits of business class on both trains are less crowding (sometimes), a generally calmer atmosphere and the amenities: on the Starlight, WiFi, a $6 snack voucher, a couple bottles of water and -- formerly and depending on the whims of the staff -- access to the PPC; on the Surfliner coffee, a snackbox and a beverage, including wine, of your choice.

The cars are pretty much the same -- the only difference I've seen is that sometimes there are faux leather seats on the Starlight.

The business class is 2-1 seating, standard seating is 2-2, so one logical conclusion would be that economy is 3-2 seating. Although, I recall the new CEO making statements that one advantage of railroad travel is comfortable seating with NO 3-2 seating. So Economy class is still an unkown dwtail at this time.

 

[DSS&A]

Where are all those Coaches needed to make CONO and CL single level trains, coming from? For that matter, where are the Sleepers and lounge Cars coming from?

My 2 cents would be that since it will be over two years until all of the V2 sleepers are delivered, that timing will match with the arrival of the Siemens cars.

Displaced Midwest Amfleet cars can be used for short haul and also modified with leg rest seating to provide the ne3ded coaches to convert the CL or CONO to single-level equipment.

 

[Ryan]

I’m not sure the math works out there.

 

[jis]

Yup. Lots of wishful thinking and dreaming [emoji57]

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[DSS&A]

Unfortunately new rolling stock procurements can be clocked with a multi-year calendar!! While it is important to issue a Rolling stock RFP this year, Amtrak still has to survive on what they have, including Viewliner 2s for at least three or more years. Siemens has a production line in place and Stadler will have a production facility up and running soon for its KISS EMU cars to be built for Caltrain. Amtrak's new 5-Year plan mentio new the possibility of EMU passenger cars on the NEC. Starlet also has regular single-level passenger cars that can be offered.

Fixing up a few more of the wreck repairs and putting them in revenue service will at least help the spare ratio to keep the fleet in good shape.

 

[west point]

All good points. Can we agree that Amtrak would need 400 - 500 new cars to add cars to present trains. Also substitute the mentioned trains to single level ? Is that possible under the present political climate ? Believe not !

 

[GiantsFan]

Interesting that the California trainsets are completely semi-permanently coupled, where the Midwest trainsets have a few sets of married pairs that create a complete trainset. After seeing all the details, its looking pretty good.

 

[DSS&A]

All good points. Can we agree that Amtrak would need 400 - 500 new cars to add cars to present trains. Also substitute the mentioned trains to single level ? Is that possible under the present political climate ? Believe not !

Amtrak paid for the 104 car Horizon fleet without a government loan. Now that the Penn Station loans are paid off, Amtrak may be able to finance more rolling stock.

 

[jis]

The Viewliners 2s probably still have to be paid for, the ones yet to be delivered at least.

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[jrud]

Unfortunately new rolling stock procurements can be clocked with a multi-year calendar!! While it is important to issue a Rolling stock RFP this year, Amtrak still has to survive on what they have, including Viewliner 2s for at least three or more years. Siemens has a production line in place and Stadler will have a production facility up and running soon for its KISS EMU cars to be built for Caltrain. Amtrak's new 5-Year plan mentio new the possibility of EMU passenger cars on the NEC. Starlet also has regular single-level passenger cars that can be offered.

Fixing up a few more of the wreck repairs and putting them in revenue service will at least help the spare ratio to keep the fleet in good shape.

Stadler is a bit of a wild card in the USA passenger car world with their Utah factory. They don't seem to make many traditional passenger cars (carriages in British-English), but they do make some (e.g., https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/21/7b/217bbfde-ca45-4823-b03b-7d8070e5f347/wady0814en.pdf and https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/0b/93/0b93cdd3-a00f-4580-ba69-5c3f5ba5c4e2/wrm0816e.pdf). However, many of the intermediate cars on their multiple-units are unpowered and very similar to cars in a trainset. For example, two cars are unpowered in the CALTRAIN EMU (https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/21/81/21816a39-9448-4b8a-8f2f-3811c6ee8006/kcal0716us.pdf) and all the intermediate cars are unpowered on this Austria Higher-Speed EMU (https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/bd/98/bd984888-3695-43cb-ad8c-9ac067a0e260/kiss_dowbz0110e.pdf). Stadler appears to be very aggressive about their future in the USA.

CAF's European operation is also making modern passenger cars including cars for the UK market with similar accessibility laws. If they were able to leverage the USA plant, they might be a contender outside of just more Viewliner production. The cars include sleepers, coaches and cab cars (British-English - driving trailers). There is some information at http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=285 and (http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=277).

 

[jrud]

Unfortunately new rolling stock procurements can be clocked with a multi-year calendar!! While it is important to issue a Rolling stock RFP this year, Amtrak still has to survive on what they have, including Viewliner 2s for at least three or more years. Siemens has a production line in place and Stadler will have a production facility up and running soon for its KISS EMU cars to be built for Caltrain. Amtrak's new 5-Year plan mentio new the possibility of EMU passenger cars on the NEC. Starlet also has regular single-level passenger cars that can be offered.

Fixing up a few more of the wreck repairs and putting them in revenue service will at least help the spare ratio to keep the fleet in good shape.

Stadler is a bit of a wild card in the USA passenger car world with their Utah factory. They don't seem to make many traditional passenger cars (carriages in British-English), but they do make some (e.g., https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/21/7b/217bbfde-ca45-4823-b03b-7d8070e5f347/wady0814en.pdf and https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/0b/93/0b93cdd3-a00f-4580-ba69-5c3f5ba5c4e2/wrm0816e.pdf). However, many of the intermediate cars on their multiple-units are unpowered and very similar to cars in a trainset. For example, two cars are unpowered in the CALTRAIN EMU (https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/21/81/21816a39-9448-4b8a-8f2f-3811c6ee8006/kcal0716us.pdf) and all the intermediate cars are unpowered on this Austria Higher-Speed EMU (https://wwwstadlerrailcom-live-01e96f7.s3-eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/filer_public/bd/98/bd984888-3695-43cb-ad8c-9ac067a0e260/kiss_dowbz0110e.pdf). Stadler appears to be very aggressive about their future in the USA.

CAF's European operation is also making modern passenger cars including cars for the UK market with similar accessibility laws. If they were able to leverage the USA plant, they might be a contender outside of just more Viewliner production. The cars include sleepers, coaches and cab cars (British-English - driving trailers). There is some information at http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=285 and (http://www.caf.net/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=277).

This my long winded way of saying Siemens is only one option for future purchases even if this Caltrans/IDOT buy gives them an advantage.

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[Ngotwalt]

So looking at this slideshow...I think it's kinda safe to say that these cars will more than likely go to the Northern California Routes...since Pacific Surfliners offer Pacific Business Class and the Caltrans cars do not have any business class cars. Unless they plan to do away with business class on the Surfliners, which I doubt.

Cheers,

Nick

 

[jis]

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

 

[Eric S]

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

 

[jrud]

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

Perhaps:

https://www.sjjpa.com/getattachment/Business-Plan/2018-SJJPA-Business-Plan-Update-Public-Review-Draft.pdf

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[frequentflyer]

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

So where do the SJ bilevels go too?

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Somehow I had the impression that they are primarily targeted for San Joaquin Service, with perhaps some also deployed in the Capitol Corridor (maybe).

I did too. I think someone had linked to a presentation or report from the agency that plans and operates the San Joaquins stating it was basically resigned to the likelihood of operating single-level equipment.

So where do the SJ bilevels go too?

Probably the Surfliner, or if Capitol Corridor needs extra capacity then they could stay up north.

 

[neroden]

The Surfliner can't afford to run single-level equipment as it is impacting on the schedule already (and they can't raise the platforms because the commuter equipment is bilevel). The San Joaquins have enough slop in the schedules that they can afford to run single-levels, so they're going to get them.

 

[jrud]

With the Siemens trainsets on the San Joaquins is it certain the the driver/engineer will be in a combination Cab, baggage and passenger car (Cabbager?)?

The cab car appears to have a box structure above the coupler on the driving end. Is this a crush box for crash protection? Even if the cab is essentially a Charger cab, the fundamental structure is probably not as strong as the locomotive. Extra protection could be required. The future Caltrain EMUs have box-like structures on each side of the coupler that probably serve a similar purpose.

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[DSS&A]

Hi,

The March 2018 project status report is posted at this link below.

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/pages/section305committee.aspx

 

[DSS&A]

Hi,

The April monthly update is now posted. Production of the first car shell began on April 6th!!

http://www.highspeed-rail.org/Pages/Section305Committee.aspx

(Corrected link)

 

[Eric S]

That doesn't seem to be the correct link.

 

[keelhauled]

I think that this should work as a direct link to the .docx download. If not, it is available at NGEC's website.

 

[jrud]

I think that this should work as a direct link to the .docx download. If not, it is available at NGEC's website.

The increased participation by Brightline may bring in more real world experience for both the Chargers and the passenger cars. The presentation said they would start production in May. So, I guess they are a bit ahead.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Any word (or speculation) on when we'll start seeing the new equipment in the Midwest?