Silver Star Diner

[jis]

Seems appropriate to bring this thread back from zombieland with the missives that an internal Wiki post has apparently appeared within Amtrak talking about initiation of Sleeper Lounge Service with Flexible Dining for Sleeper passengers on the Silver Star starting May 1, 2020. Awaiting a more public announcement at some point.

This apparently includes adding a VL II Diner to the consist.

That would leave only the Cardinal among the overnight eastern trains without a VL II Diner, unless that has already been added to it or happens to be something that is added to it mid-year this year.

Interestingly, back in 2017 absolutely no one had come remotely close to guessing what would happen by 2019/2020!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Seems appropriate to bring this thread back from zombieland with the missives that an internal Wiki post has apparently appeared within Amtrak talking about initiation of Sleeper Lounge Service with Flexible Dining for Sleeper passengers on the Silver Star starting May 1, 2020. Awaiting a more public announcement at some point.

This apparently includes adding a VL II Diner to the consist.

That would leave only the Cardinal among the overnight eastern trains without a VL II Diner, unless that has already been added to it or happens to be something that is added to it mid-year this year.

Interestingly, back in 2017 absolutely no one had come remotely close to guessing what would happen by 2019/2020!

So, Amtrak will be able to Raise the Cost of Rail Fare and Accommodations back to those charged on the Meteor when this happens right?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Interestingly, back in 2017 absolutely no one had come remotely close to guessing what would happen by 2019/2020!

Actually some of us did.... we were told we were over reacting.

 

[user 14106]

As much as contemporary dining is lame, this is ok news. It’s better than being the starvation. I am still trying to be optimistic that they will further improve flex dining. They have reintroduced hot meals and dumped the boxes based on customer reviews... so it’s not impossible that further improvements can at least make this acceptable for one night trains.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

As much as contemporary dining is lame, this is ok news. It’s better than being the starvation. I am still trying to be optimistic that they will further improve flex dining. They have reintroduced hot meals and dumped the boxes based on customer reviews... so it’s not impossible that further improvements can at least make this acceptable for one night trains.

I would actually prefer saving a little money and purchasing food and drink from the cafe. At least I’m only paying for items I want to eat.

The microwave dinners are really quite poor quality.

 

[user 14106]

I would actually prefer saving a little money and purchasing food and drink from the cafe. At least I’m only paying for items I want to eat.

The microwave dinners are really quite poor quality.

So is the consensus that total elimination of the dining cars and only the cafe car availability is actual preferable to what Amtrak is offering? I haven't had the meals yet so I can't speak definitively.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

So is the consensus that total elimination of the dining cars and only the cafe car availability is actual preferable to what Amtrak is offering? I haven't had the meals yet so I can't speak definitively.

I’m actually pretty 50/50 on it. On the one hand, it’s nice to have the “sleeper lounge” space to eat in. The free drinks are nice, and you are still sort of served food. I mean waiting in the diner for your order to be called is a little better than waiting in the line in the cafe.

The options are just so limited. In the cafe I can at least pick things I can actually eat. The Amtrak full service dining car has plenty of options for me, but the contemporary dining is pretty limiting.

 

[Qapla]

It would be nice if they could offer two different fares for sleepers .... one fare for those who want food included and a cheaper fare for those who would rather bring their own or buy on-board from the cafe.

 

[jis]

Actually some of us did.... we were told we were over reacting.

I don’t recall anyone mentioning Sleeper Lounge.

 

[user 14106]

I guess all we can do is hope they improve the offerings. It at least seems to be an improvement over the initial flex dining (with the cold boxes and the breakfast sugar bomb box.) so hopefully they will be open to further improvements. still a huge amount of room for improvement though. I will find out for myself later this year on my first cross country Amtrak trip where my first leg is the lake shore.

 

[west point]

Amtrak does not explain why coach passengers cannot prepay for eating in the diner ?

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak does not explain why coach passengers cannot prepay for eating in the diner ?

That is apparently coming eventually but it hasn’t happened yet

 

[the_traveler]

That is apparently coming eventually but it hasn’t happened yet

Just like the “cash & points awards” that were “promised” when AGR 2.0 began YEARS ago?

 

[MARC Rider]

I would actually prefer saving a little money and purchasing food and drink from the cafe. At least I’m only paying for items I want to eat.

The microwave dinners are really quite poor quality.

Actually, the quality of the Contemporary Flex meals, though they could be better, is better than what is offered in the cafe car.

Also, I appreciated having the dedicated lounge space for sleeper passengers. On my last trip (on the Cardinal), dedicating half the cafe car for this purpose was adequate, because we only had 12 people in the sleeper. But on a train that was more crowded (like I would expect the Silvers to be), I would prefer to have that V2 diner-lounger. It also frees up lounge space for the coach passengers.

 

[Old MM]

Would it be all that difficult to charge a set price for the accommodations, and a separate charge for meals? I really like that idea.
Whatever they end up doing, if they could just ensure they stock enough of whatever the food is, for the people who are paying for it. If sleeper car passengers are told there are breakfast sandwiches available, it's really not OK to run out of them by 6:30, when meals were included in the fare.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Actually, the quality of the Contemporary Flex meals, though they could be better, is better than what is offered in the cafe car.

Depends on the cafe car I suppose. For instance I'd put the NEC, Cascades, and Downeaster cafe cars above Anderson's flexi-con meals.

Would it be all that difficult to charge a set price for the accommodations, and a separate charge for meals? I really like that idea.

I have no doubt that Amtrak can remove meals from the current sleeper price and start charging extra again like they did in the past. I'm not sure what benefit that would bring us or why we would prefer to pay more or receive less when you could simply ignore the meals instead, but I'm sure Amtrak can oblige. My hope is that we can improve future meal quality as part of the base sleeper price again sometime in the future. Once meals are separated from sleeper accommodation the pressure to remove dining cars altogether is likely to skyrocket. Once that happens there will be very little motivation to ever bring them back again.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Actually, the quality of the Contemporary Flex meals, though they could be better, is better than what is offered in the cafe car.

Also, I appreciated having the dedicated lounge space for sleeper passengers.

I personally disagree with the quality. I tried the shrimp and the beef (the only 2 I can eat) and I thought they were both cheap TV dinner quality. Depending on the train and the menu, I’ve had some pretty good items from the cafe car including some good salads.

I do agree with the “sleeper lounge” space. On the single level trains the cafe is usually very crowded so having a place to sit and relax and eat / drink coffee is nice.

 

[jis]

Yes, Amtrak can remove meals from the current sleeper price and start charging extra again like they did before. I'm not sure what benefit that would bring us or why we would prefer to pay more or receive less but I'm sure Amtrak can oblige.

Personally, I think it was better when meals were not included in the fare and I would not mind it going back to that. Since I seldom have the stomach for the three meals included, and in case of Roomettes, the 6 meals per day presumptively included in the fare, I think it would be a win for me. The situation may be different for others.

I remember when the inclusion in fare took place, I stopped traveling by Sleeper and stuck to Slumbercoach where this inclusion did not apply. Then when the Slumbercoaches went away I stopped traveling overnight LD by Amtrak for many years. Then I got back to some use of Amtrak mainly for getting to OTOL Fests and AU Gatherings, mostly for the company. I did travel by Sleeper when I could manage to get my employer to pay for it too, which was few and far between. Today the same situation continues, except that I don't have any employers anymore.

So, for my personal purposes the food that is served on Amtrak and has been since the late '90s is simply not worth the extra fare that is added on for it. Again the situation would most likely be different for someone using the Roomette for two people etc.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Personally, I think it was better when meals were not included in the fare and I would not mind it going back to that. Since I seldom have the stomach for the three meals included, and in case of Roomettes, the 6 meals per day presumptively included in the fare, I think it would be a win for me. The situation may be different for others...So, for my personal purposes the food that is served on Amtrak and has been since the late '90s is simply not worth the extra fare that is added on for it.

I see your point, but in order for such a change to be a win I'd first have to believe that Anderson would be willing to substantially reduce sleeper fares in conjunction with removing meals. I do not believe that to be true. In my view the loss of included meals would most likely lead to the eventual loss of dining cars which would put even more pressure on long distance travelers to either stay home or choose another form of transit. I do not consider that to be a win.

 

[Old MM]

I don't follow that if the pricing was separate, it would result in pressure to remove the dining cars. What's the reasoning?
There has to be some variety of F/B available on any train. And for LD trips it has to be sufficient for the journey.
The optimist in me likes to hope that if they had a better idea who was interested in paying extra for the meal service.... and who wasn't... that Amtrak could actually PLAN the diner service better, which would include the coach passengers. They could have the correct number of entrees and enough staff.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I don't follow that if the pricing was separate, it would result in pressure to remove the dining cars. What's the reasoning?

The reasoning is that very few travelers are likely to pay extra for Anderson's flexi-con pantry meals. In theory the dining car meals could be improved (at higher cost) but according to Anderson the new flexi-con meals are already an improvement over the previous meals. If relatively few travelers are willing to pay for meals then from Anderson's perspective what purpose would the dining car serve? Does anything about Anderson seem like the kind of person who keeps amenities around just because of railroad tradition? Does anyone really believe a Board of Directors who hired someone like Anderson is going to replace him with someone completely different the next time around? Once the dining cars are removed from active service the barrier to reentry is likely to be extremely high. In other words, when they're gone they are likely to be gone for good. As with so many aspects of Amtrak, just because it's bad now doesn't mean it can't get worse. The hope is that we can weather the likes of Anderson and Gardner with meals (and miles) remaining intact and then try to move in a more positive direction if and when a better board can be brought in with fewer Mica Meal rules.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Once the dining cars are removed from active service the barrier to reentry is likely to be extremely high. In other words, when they're gone they are likely to be gone for good.

Which is why the physical diners returning to the Star is a good thing. As long as the physical diners are on the train there is hope for some form of dining car service to return. If the physical cars get retired / sold there is no hope.

I realize crew has been laid off, commisaries closed etc. - it's not like there will be a quick turn around but there is hope for something.

I continue to say I'm ok with the current service model, even though it is not ideal. What I am not ok with is the food quality and amount of options.

 

[user 14106]

The one million dollar question is will the diner be deployed as it is on the meteor - exclusively serving sleeper passengers? Or will this be the long rumored single food service car? It is interesting that this is 5 months out. If they are indeed going to trial a VL2 diner reconfigured to serve as a “single food service car” with this, it would probably replace the cafe car entirely and if they convert these diners into all around food service cars and get rid of the cafes it would be very hard to go back to the old way of doing things with a diner and a cafe car.

 

[LookingGlassTie]

The one million dollar question is will the diner be deployed as it is on the meteor - exclusively serving sleeper passengers? Or will this be the long rumored single food service car? It is interesting that this is 5 months out. If they are indeed going to trial a VL2 diner reconfigured to serve as a “single food service car” with this, it would probably replace the cafe car entirely and if they convert these diners into all around food service cars and get rid of the cafes it would be very hard to go back to the old way of doing things with a diner and a cafe car.

That IS a good question!

 

[pennyk]

In early October, I was on the Silver Meteor and several managers were on board. One of the managers worked the Silver Star. At that time, he stated that flex dining would be coming to the Silver Star, but a Viewliner Diner/Sleeper Lounge would not. He stated that the cafe car would be a single food service car with one half for coach passengers and one half for sleeper passengers. Since I heard this in early October, things may have changed.