Sleeper Pricing?

[crescent-zephyr]

Yep, I've been treated much worse riding the cross border Trains between the US and the Great White North when Soutbound and get to the US border!

And you’re American? Interesting. American Border Patrol has always just asked the standard questions and had me go on my way. Downright friendly compared to CBP.

As always... YMMV!

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Boy did I learn that lesson the hardway!

Friends and coworkers had warned me that Canadian customs were obnoxiously suspicious but I figured if I never had a problem before why would I have an issue now? They were right though. While being questioned I tried to follow the logic of how sneaking in to accept a menial low-wage job would somehow provide free healthcare and a doting wife but it honestly made no sense to me. I tried to explain that I simply enjoy train adventures and have been employed and insured for all but a few months of my adult life and she wasn't having any of that. We reached an impasse where nothing I could say was being accepted at face value. She ended up letting me through anyway but the look of satisfaction on her face stuck with me. If I ever go back its with only with 100% refundable bookings despite being twice the price.

Try doing it in the other direction!

I don't doubt you and sympathize completely. The only difference is that it's not exactly out of character for us.

 

[Bob Dylan]

And you’re American? Interesting. American Border Patrol has always just asked the standard questions and had me go on my way. Downright friendly compared to CBP.

As always... YMMV!

Yep, and I've lived in both Countries and crossed the border hundreds of times.

In my expierience( and I've done it by auto,bus,ferry,plane and train)it seems that when you're coming back on a train is when the American officials are the rudest and most petty, especially in Niagara Falls,NY.

 

[Nick Farr]

Europe is currently closed to most Americans. Mexico doesn't mind but it's not nearly the bargain it once was. Last time I visited they were charging US prices and serving fake alcohol. I failed to see the benefit at that point.

If you go to the standard tourist traps (Cancun, etc.)--that's the experience you're going to get.

If you go to Mexico City or some more off-the-beaten-path beaches like Puerto Escondido, you'll get some fabulous deals. The best Ceviche I ever had was from a straw hut on the beach in an amazing cove by an AirBNB whole house that was $20/night.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

If you go to the standard tourist traps (Cancun, etc.)--that's the experience you're going to get. If you go to Mexico City or some more off-the-beaten-path beaches like Puerto Escondido, you'll get some fabulous deals. The best Ceviche I ever had was from a straw hut on the beach in an amazing cove by an AirBNB whole house that was $20/night.

Yeah I go to the places with airports and hotels. When a two hour flight can get me to Puerto Escondido I'll be sure to consider it. I've visited Mexico more times than I have fingers and toes so being labeled a tourist doesn't bother me.

 

[Nick Farr]

Yeah I go to the places with airports and hotels. When a two hour flight can get me to Puerto Escondido I'll be sure to consider it. I've visited Mexico more times than I have fingers and toes so being labeled a tourist doesn't bother me.

I'd ask that you not paint Mexico with the "not nearly the bargain it once was" when you're visiting the places that were specifically designed to meet gringo expectations and are not really fundamentally different from Daytona Beach.

You're basically saying that it's fair to paint the entire US tour experience based on what happens in Fort Lauderdale.

Mexico City, for one, has excellent hotels and airports and offers amazing experiences at ridiculous bargains. Four star hotels and dining at two star US prices.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'd ask that you not paint Mexico with the "not nearly the bargain it once was" when you're visiting the places that were specifically designed to meet gringo expectations and are not really fundamentally different from Daytona Beach. You're basically saying that it's fair to paint the entire US tour experience based on what happens in Fort Lauderdale. Mexico City, for one, has excellent hotels and airports and offers amazing experiences at ridiculous bargains. Four star hotels and dining at two star US prices.

Fair enough, the weekend gringo getaway now costs US prices for the risk of wood liquor cocktails (which is a big deal to me) and snooty service. It's a changing dynamic and they're probably more interested in doing their own thing and catering to domestic tourists, but they're also not the only option around. You can still have fun but if I'm going to pay CA/FL prices I expect to be vacationing in CA/FL. When Mexico City cracks down on crime and pollution that would make Bakersfield blush it will be a lot more appealing to me. Until then I'm looking elsewhere.

 

[AM_ROAD]

I was looking this up not even noticing this thread was around...
Based on a 1920's pricing of the New York Central's 20th Century Limited cost adjusted for inflation came to this:
NY-CHI pricing with Pullman was about $550 one way.
Average dinner cost about $50 and breakfast was $20 for eggs and sausage.

Why bring this up? For some reason I didn't expect the cost to be close to Amtrak's current cost. Now I know there are trade offs: trains were faster and more reliable, better hospitality, etc. However the fact that one of the premier trains of the day is around the cost of current Amtrak service was surprising. Not to mention how much the meals were in comparison.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Yeah I go to the places with airports and hotels. When a two hour flight can get me to Puerto Escondido I'll be sure to consider it. I've visited Mexico more times than I have fingers and toes so being labeled a tourist doesn't bother me.

You can fly to Puerto Escondido Chris.( No direct flights, but there are connections in several Cities) My Brother and Sister in Law do it every Winter, and have done so for years.

And there are accommodations that range from 5 Star to Hammocks, but prices are much less than Cancun,Cabo, Vallarta etc.

Another great place is Barra de Navidad,between Manzanillo and Vallarta, Airports in both those Cities.

 

[IndyLions]

I was looking this up not even noticing this thread was around...
Based on a 1920's pricing of the New York Central's 20th Century Limited cost adjusted for inflation came to this:
NY-CHI pricing with Pullman was about $550 one way.
Average dinner cost about $50 and breakfast was $20 for eggs and sausage.

Why bring this up? For some reason I didn't expect the cost to be close to Amtrak's current cost. Now I know there are trade offs: trains were faster and more reliable, better hospitality, etc. However the fact that one of the premier trains of the day is around the cost of current Amtrak service was surprising. Not to mention how much the meals were in comparison.

In those days, sleeper traffic was all about the business traveler, today it’s all about leisure travelers and retirees.

Compared to today, supply was almost unlimited back then, and they still got pretty high prices due to the need to do business in person.

One example, the New York Central “Detroiter” ran 10 sleepers daily each way New York to Detroit.

Before 40 years of attrition depleted the fleet, Amtrak had plenty of daily trains with at least three or four sleepers on them - at least in peak season. Now that’s pretty rare.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

You can fly to Puerto Escondido Chris.( No direct flights, but there are connections in several Cities) My Brother and Sister in Law do it every Winter, and have done so for years. And there are accommodations that range from 5 Star to Hammocks, but prices are much less than Cancun,Cabo, Vallarta etc. Another great place is Barra de Navidad,between Manzanillo and Vallarta, Airports in both those Cities.

Mexico was a lot of fun when I was younger but in some ways it was a different place and I was a different person back then. You could also say it's a victim of its own success. Cheap prices and great service set a high standard that would be difficult to maintain forever. At the moment I'm more interested in visiting some other countries but I still support re-normalizing relations and helping to neutralize the profit motive for gang activity. That may or may not do anything for future tourism but it's better than wasting time and money on expensive walls and obnoxious rhetoric.

 

[gregg_vw]

We have started looking at taking a trip on board Amtrak for our honeymoon post covid. I started looking at prices today for sleepers and was shocked to see how expensive they are. Is this normal, paying $2,000+? I haven't checked prices since my last trip about 5 years ago, but I don't remember it being that much. Is this a side effect from covid or was it this expensive pre pandemic? Obviously, once we get serious about making reservations, we will try to make them as far in advance as possible. Once that time comes, I will be back with more questions about which directions to take and what time of year is best, etc. Thanks in advance!

The skyrocketing prices are due to policies during Civil and the far fewer runs now that daily service on LD trains have been nixed.

I don't know how to start a new thread here, but wanted to comment on roomettes. I never liked the single level sleeper cars with toilets and fold down sinks in the room. But Covid has altered my judgment of these. Common restrooms on two level sleeper cars have the same problemi I encounter on planes. People are pigs. They leave tissue and paper towels on the floor. They don't wipe down the sink. They leave refuse half sticking out of the trash and disgusting messes in the toilet. During Covid in my roomette I can keep my little chamber pot and sink clean and know who's been using them. Plus.these roomettes have more storage space and a more spacious upper bunk. During a pandemic, I wish this style wasn't so scarce.

 

[niemi24s]

The skyrocketing prices. . .

Skyrocketing? You too have been sucked into that belief by your ignorance of the Amtrak fare bracket (bucket) system. The rise in fares shown in Post #13 shows the fares have actually risen at a rate of about 4% annually over that five year period.

I'd hardly call that skyrocketing.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Skyrocketing? You too have been sucked into that belief by your ignorance of the Amtrak fare bracket (bucket) system. The rise in fares shown in Post #13 shows the fares have actually risen at a rate of about 4% annually over that five year period.

I'd hardly call that skyrocketing.

The problem is that Low Buckets are mostly unavailable most days and AGR points have been really devalued.

I would NOT pay $2-$3,000 to ride an Amtrak Train across the Country!( the Rocky Mountaineer or the Canadian in the Summer is another Story)

 

[20th Century Rider]

Skyrocketing? You too have been sucked into that belief by your ignorance of the Amtrak fare bracket (bucket) system. The rise in fares shown in Post #13 shows the fares have actually risen at a rate of about 4% annually over that five year period.

I'd hardly call that skyrocketing.

And when they stopped serving 'real food' the prices really spiked. A bargain in reverse.

 

[caravanman]

Yep, I've been treated much worse riding the cross border Trains between the US and the Great White North when Soutbound and get to the US border!

I watched a great film called "Blinded by the Light", a story about a British born Indian guy who becomes hooked on Bruce Springsteen music... Despite family cultural resistance, he eventually flies to America to see a live concert. The border agent asks him the purpose of his visit and the guy replies "To see the Bruce Springsteen concert"... The agent says "I can't think of a better reason to come, welcome to the USA!"
It's a film, but maybe worth a try next time?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I watched a great film called "Blinded by the Light", a story about a British born Indian guy who becomes hooked on Bruce Springsteen music... Despite family cultural resistance, he eventually flies to America to see a live concert. The border agent asks him the purpose of his visit and the guy replies "To see the Bruce Springsteen concert"... The agent says "I can't think of a better reason to come, welcome to the USA!"
It's a film, but maybe worth a try next time?

On one of my trips on the Cascades from Vancouver at least half of my coach said “to see the Lady GaGa concert” when asked the purpose of their trip.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Skyrocketing? You too have been sucked into that belief by your ignorance of the Amtrak fare bracket (bucket) system. The rise in fares shown in Post #13 shows the fares have actually risen at a rate of about 4% annually over that five year period. I'd hardly call that skyrocketing.

"It's only increasing at double the inflation rate people."

The problem is that Low Buckets are mostly unavailable most days and AGR points have been really devalued.

His spreadsheet also seems to have no idea what's happening with partial route tickets.

 

[niemi24s]

His spreadsheet also seems to have no idea what's happening with partial route tickets.

Partial routes? Keeping track of seventeen whole LD routes without AmSnag is bad enough, but do you realize how many partial routes there are in the entire Amtrak LD system? I'd guess there are several thousand of them.

Here's two of the smaller pieces of that big pie: the CL with a total of 16 stations with none coded D or R which gives that route has a total of 119 different partial routes with perhaps as many different sets of fare buckets; The CONO with 8 more stations has 252 partial routes.

I've got a few partial route fare bucket charts posted elsewhere, but it's a tiny portion of all the possibilities.

I know - why don't you do something useful and poke around on Arrow and come up with the others?

 

[niemi24s]

Partial routes? . . . I'd guess there are several thousand of them.

Looks like there are actually about 7,288 of them on just the LD routes. I say about, because the R and D codes in the timetables can make for differences in the partial routes in a route, depending on the direction of travel. See details here: Long Distance Train Coach & Sleeper Fares (Buckets)

 

[Sidney]

I'm on the Empire Builder. Roomettes are almost full. One bedroom was sold. All the others remained empty the entire journey. I remember when you could upgrade at a discount once you boarded. Is there any logical reason someone in a roomette couldn't upgrade to a bedroom for say half price or $100 additional? This makes absolutely no sense. All of these bedrooms are empty and Amtrak is missing out on additional revenue.

I even talked to my attendant about that and she said why not sell them cheaply on board and give roomette people a sample of a nicer accommodation and when they book again they might go for the bedroom. Bedrooms are way overpriced now. I'm in a roomette and would have paid a bit more for the upgrade and I'm sure other people feel the same.

 

[me_little_me]

I'm on the Empire Builder. Roomettes are almost full. One bedroom was sold. All the others remained empty the entire journey. I remember when you could upgrade at a discount once you boarded. Is there any logical reason someone in a roomette couldn't upgrade to a bedroom for say half price or $100 additional? This makes absolutely no sense. All of these bedrooms are empty and Amtrak is missing out on additional revenue.

I even talked to my attendant about that and she said why not sell them cheaply on board and give roomette people a sample of a nicer accommodation and when they book again they might go for the bedroom. Bedrooms are way overpriced now. I'm in a roomette and would have paid a bit more for the upgrade and I'm sure other people feel the same.

On the other hand, those rooms could have been already sold to others boarding later or still could be sold after you boarded so no use giving them away at bargain prices. However, if the roomettes were full and the bedrooms weren't used, the price to everyone should have gone down.

 

[Sidney]

Every bedroom except for one remained empty the full length Chicago to Portland

 

[AFS1970]

I have to say on my one train trip across the border, I had good experiences with the Canadian & US customs officials. The Canadians were very friendly and the only real delay I had was when someone in front of me was causing a problem and they sent for more help to process the rest of the line.

I really should have set off bells and whistles, except I guess they see a lot of tourists in Niagara Falls. I crossed back and forth at least once a day for three days before moving on to Toronto. However since many of my crossings were on foot, I guess they figured I couldn't be smuggling much.

 

[jis]

Yep, and I've lived in both Countries and crossed the border hundreds of times.

In my expierience( and I've done it by auto,bus,ferry,plane and train)it seems that when you're coming back on a train is when the American officials are the rudest and most petty, especially in Niagara Falls,NY.

In crossing into the US by train at various points, which I have done dozens of times, the main annoyance has been the amount of mindless silly questions that are asked. I am sure they serve some purpose somehow.

I find that the treatment at the Niagara Falls checkpoint has improved markedly after they moved to the new station, at least in my experience. maybe the quality of accommodation has an effect on how cranky they are. I could sympathize with that

I watched a great film called "Blinded by the Light", a story about a British born Indian guy who becomes hooked on Bruce Springsteen music... Despite family cultural resistance, he eventually flies to America to see a live concert. The border agent asks him the purpose of his visit and the guy replies "To see the Bruce Springsteen concert"... The agent says "I can't think of a better reason to come, welcome to the USA!"
It's a film, but maybe worth a try next time?

Well, US being home they usually ask me what were you doing in <fill in wherever I am returning from>. Usually the answer is visiting family or riding trains. The latter always elicits further questions which leads to usually a nice short conversation. Of course these days this happens only when crossing back from Canada, since while arriving by air I don't get to meet a human being.

Which reminds me, I have to figure out how to get a renewal interview for Global Entry after I finish getting my vaccination. I apparently have till September to complete that.

While entering Canada or UK I always say "to ride trains". The Canadians look at me like I have grown four heads. In UK they ask me whereabout I am planning to ride. When I tell them something like "the Heart of Wales" line they often mention something that I ought to visit. Those agents are often remarkably knowledgeable about riding trains in the UK.