Southwest Chief News & Future Operations

[cpotisch]

To a scrap dealer?   Such 'secrecy'? hboy:

He’s in the industry and is therefore privy to some knowledge he can’t necessarily share. I imagine we’ll find out in time.

 

[Anderson]

My guess is that it's the St. Louis guys.  If nothing else, the bags probably do have value for some of their parts, and I can easily see something happening like the Horizons getting leased out to a state or commuter operation (i.e. being used to replace Amtrak-sourced Amfleets on the Surfliner).

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

Those guys were my other thought  besides the scrapping option. But haven’t the hi levels they got their hands on earlier just sat a decade. Have they leased anything at all to anyone so far?

 

[MikefromCrete]

I doubt if  Corridor Capital (or is  it  the other way around) would be the    buyer.  They've been sitting on those  hi-levels forever, with nobody showing any interest. The Horizon cars in question are probably wrecks and wouldn't be good for any future use. 

 

[cpotisch]

If I win the lotto, I will definitely buy one of Ozark's Hi-Level diners and then replace half the upper-level dining area with eight or so Heritage roomettes. Then I'll have a dining car, lounge, and sleeper. But considering how long they've been sitting on those cars and how cheap they are listed at, I imagine that they will require quite a bit of refurbishment before they can be roaming the rails again. And I guess loading gauge restrictions and the fact that the passage between cars is on the upper-level, really limits the practical use of them. :unsure:

 

[neroden]

I'm betting it's Corridor Capital.  Seems to have an outside source of income to support his hobby...

 

[Thirdrail7]

Fiasco all the way around.  If this is a ploy for the future then the amount of angry politicians will increase to point were there is trains, but no more Amtrak.  Too many States are turn against Amtrak on the 750 miles services. Now the politicians are getting annoyed with Amtrak on the long distance trains too.  Record amount of funding last year, and Amtrak plays hardball for more money?

See New York State.

See Connecticut.

See California.

See Washington, Oregon.

See the recent buying of ever single railcar that Amtrak had for sale by a single organization.

No good will come from this.

I keep thinking: isn't that what a lot of people want? Is that what many people have asked for? Turn the railroad to the states and private enterprise? Isn't this what various people were put in place to do? However, most Amtrak executives didn't play along, particularly David Gunn.

Maybe they finally found their man....and it may work.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Asked if Amtrak would continue to run its rail service “as is” beyond Sept. 30, which is when fiscal 2019 ends, Amtrak spokesman Marc Magliari said there were “too many moving parts” to determine that at this time.

https://www.abqjournal.com/1273304/study-bisecting-southwest-chief-rail-service-a-costly-plan.html

NARP/RPA has update on the SWC with the above link to a recent story.

(29 January 2019)

The NARP/Story is at:

https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/hotline/hotline-1-102/

 

[Seaboard92]

I'm betting it's Corridor Capital.  Seems to have an outside source of income to support his hobby...

I can't imagine what their storage bill must be.

 

[cpotisch]

I can't imagine what their storage bill must be.

So what do you think they'll actually do with the PPCs, diners, crew-dorms, and so on?

 

[fredmcain]

Updating this thread just a bit.  I guess Congress has now passed Amtrak's funding for 2019 (finally) and it has been signed into law according to the RPA (formerly NARP).  RPA reported in their hotline some interesting features as some of you know.  First off the bat it was reported, and I'm gonna quote here, that " A requirement to invest in the capital improvements for the Southwest Chief, and a prohibition on the use of these funds to “discontinue, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter” the route "  Wow !  So much for Anderson's plan for the Chief!

Then it was reported that " Bringing back station agents to any Amtrak station that had a ticket agent position eliminated in fiscal year 2018 "  Amazing!  Looks like Anderson kinda got his wings clipped on this.  I don't know if these are mandates or just "directions" but they seem like they are mandates.

This was reported (among other things) in RPA's "Hotline" #1104 from Feb. 15th

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

[keelhauled]

Per the FY2019 funding bill, Amtrak has announced that it will provide the $3 million necessary to release the previous federal grant for track work in in KS, CO, and NM.

 

[jis]

Did they really have a choice left for them? Seems like the multiple choice question had pretty much been reduced to a single choice by the development of events.

 

[dlagrua]

I'm not real encouraged by what I have been reading about the SWC of late but hope that Amtrak is preserved and hopefully expanded.  On a separate note, just for curiosity I checked  a fare from   PHL-WAS  (BC)  then WAS-CHI-SLC (BR)   in Mid May 2019, and it prices out at a whopping $2028 one way!! . Congress probably has no idea what LD rail travelers are charged.. I would assume that the SWC charges a similar fare for a trip of this distance

 

[cpotisch]

I'm not real encouraged by what I have been reading about the SWC of late but hope that Amtrak is preserved and hopefully expanded.  On a separate note, just for curiosity I checked  a fare from   PHL-WAS  (BC)  then WAS-CHI-SLC (BR)   in Mid May 2019, and it prices out at a whopping $2028 one way!! . Congress probably has no idea what LD rail travelers are charged.. I would assume that the SWC charges a similar fare for a trip of this distance

That doesn't surprise me, considering that is for the nicest accommodations available on each respective train, and it doesn't sound like you at all looked for the cheapest fares. That's sort of stacking the cards against Amtrak.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Random mid-May departure for Chicago to LAX on the chief sees -

$143 for coach 

$544 for Roomette

$1622 for bedroom 

Delta shows $122 for coach 

$462 for comfort class

$793 for first class 

so prices don’t seem too off. (Yes there are cheaper airlines, there’s also Greyhound... I felt delta was a fair and ironic comparison to use.)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It should be noted for those that don’t fly that delta domestic first class is not a fair comparison to a bedroom, delta one or a 1st class suite would be a better comparison hard product wise.  

 

[jis]

It should be noted for those that don’t fly that delta domestic first class is not a fair comparison to a bedroom, delta one or a 1st class suite would be a better comparison hard product wise.  

There is someone's idea of fair comparison and there is the idea of reasonable comparison. For a six - seven hour daytime trip I would not spring for Sleeper on a train either, so why would I need a suite on Delta to go to San Fran from Orlando?

Now for a 10+ hour flight it starts getting into the Sleeper territory, but that is where I have been campaigning for cheaper berths on Amtrak. The current situation is rediculous and elitis on Amtrak.

So in my mind for a journey from say New York to San Francisco, realistically I would compare Coach fares and I would compare Amtrak Sleeper fare with Delta's First Class fare as what people would realistically use on each mode.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Delta offers delta one on select nyc to Cali flights. 

I’m in no way rich but I have paid for a sleeper for day trips and I’ve paid for delta first class for fairly short flights. It’s a thing people do. 

Delta does offer delta one on nyc to lax flights, that’s a 5.5 hour flight. 

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Did you miss that The chief in a roomette is cheaper than delta first class? I was saying a bedroom should be compared to delta one. 

 

[jis]

Delta offers delta one on select nyc to Cali flights. 

I’m in no way rich but I have paid for a sleeper for day trips and I’ve paid for delta first class for fairly short flights. It’s a thing people do. 

Delta does offer delta one on nyc to lax flights, that’s a 5.5 hour flight. 

I did not say they don't. Each of the US3 offer lie flat seat service with enhanced soft product under various brand names on that route, and on many other routes. For example United offer two or three lie flat hard product, but basic domestic first class soft product on the Newark - Orlando route too, and I use it often since I get comp upgraded to them. They are usually connecting flights to bank of international flights in and out of Newark. But would I pay more than double the fare for a 2.5 hour access to a lie flat? probably not.

Fortunately I am able to purchase or cash in upgrade coupons to Business where it is really needed - 15+ hour intercontinental flights, and actually for the same number of hours traveled, typical  air Business Class is spectacularly more expensive than Amtrak's most expensive room. The soft product delivered with it is vastly superior to anything Amtrak has to offer on its best day. But you also travel over 8,000 miles in that time, instead of 1000.

 

[andytiedye]

What does "soft product" and "hard product" mean here?

 

[cpotisch]

What does "soft product" and "hard product" mean here?

The hard product is the actual physical and tangible aspect (so the legroom, the seats, the equipment, and so on), while the soft product refers to the separate amenities provided such as food and drinks or service.

 

[jis]

What does "soft product" and "hard product" mean here?

Hard Product is essentially the hardware, the seats restrooms, compartments etc.

Soft Product is the associated services provided, like food and beverage, help with baggage, reservation, handling of irregular situations etc.

So for example in the international 757s the hard p-roduct for Business Class is a lie flat seat. When that aircraft is used in internation service Business class using that hard product has the associated soft product of at least one five course meal and possibly additional meals, provision of pillows and blankets etc. The same plane used in domestic service with the same hard product has a much less elaborate soft product - no pillow and a much less elaborate meal.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

The point is... Amtrak is priced competitively with airlines for the various classes of service. The travel time is somewhat irrelevant as no one will choose ld train for speed. If you don’t want to, or can’t fly (there are medical conditions that keep people from flying remember) a train is a much more practical way to travel across the USA than personal vehicle (stopping at hotels or sleeping in seats while taking turns driving) or long distance busses which typically require changing busses when traveling long distances. 

(Naturally ld trains should run as fast as possible,  and having a few more areas where they can go 90 could make a big difference for time... but that’s not the overall point).