Southwest Chief News & Future Operations

[chrsjrcj]

SA 3665. Mr. MORAN (for himself, Mr. UDALL, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. GARDNER, and Mr. BENNET) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 3399 proposed by Mr. SHELBY to the bill H.R. 6147, making appropriations for the Department of the Interior, environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2019, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows: On page 464, line 24, strike ‘‘regulation.’’ and insert the following: ‘‘regulation: Provided further, That not less than $50,000,000 of the amount provided under this heading shall be for capital expenses related to safety improvements, maintenance, and the nonFederal match for discretionary Federal grant programs to enable continued passenger rail operations on long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations): Provided further, That none of the funds provided under this heading shall be used by Amtrak to give notice under subsection (a) or (b) of section 24706 of title 49, United States Code, with respect to long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations), or otherwise initiate discontinuance of, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the schedule or route of rail service on any portion of such route operated in fiscal year 2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 24305(a)(3)(A) of title 49, United States Code, in lieu of rail service.’’.

https://www.congress.gov/crec/2018/07/26/CREC-2018-07-26-pt1-PgS5429.pdf

I can't figure out if the amendment to staff stations was ever voted on.

 

[acelafan]

It's a positive step, for sure. Guess we'll see what happens in the House and then the final reconciliation.

 

[bretton88]

SA 3665. Mr. MORAN (for himself, Mr. UDALL, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. GARDNER, and Mr. BENNET) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 3399 proposed by Mr. SHELBY to the bill H.R. 6147, making appropriations for the Department of the Interior, environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2019, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows: On page 464, line 24, strike ‘‘regulation.’’ and insert the following: ‘‘regulation: Provided further, That not less than $50,000,000 of the amount provided under this heading shall be for capital expenses related to safety improvements, maintenance, and the nonFederal match for discretionary Federal grant programs to enable continued passenger rail operations on long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations): Provided further, That none of the funds provided under this heading shall be used by Amtrak to give notice under subsection (a) or (b) of section 24706 of title 49, United States Code, with respect to long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations), or otherwise initiate discontinuance of, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the schedule or route of rail service on any portion of such route operated in fiscal year 2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 24305(a)(3)(A) of title 49, United States Code, in lieu of rail service.’’.

https://www.congress.gov/crec/2018/07/26/CREC-2018-07-26-pt1-PgS5429.pdf

I can't figure out if the amendment to staff stations was ever voted on.

If I'm reading this right, is that 50 million for work on the route? If so, that's a big win for Amtrak

 

[chrsjrcj]

And it also sounds like Amtrak cannot use lack of PTC as a reasoning to discontinue service.

 

[Larry H.]

Has congress said they expect amtrak to make a profit? Congress doesn't want Amtrak losing money on food and beverage service, which seems reasonable.

Why is that reasonable? F&B is an ancillary service to increase ridership and farebox recovery, not a self standing or core service provided by Amtrak. Should toilet service also be accounted for separately?

Well based on the condition of the windows on the last few Amtrak trains I've ridden... it doesn't seem that Amtrak is too concerned with keeping things clean. Restrooms have always been hit or miss on the trains too so I hope they aren't paying too much to keep them clean.

The whole F&B thing I can see both ways... i think there is room for a middle ground with no table service, but an LSA and a chef on board the train preparing a few hot items. But as it was, Amtrak was losing alot of money on food service employees that are not really necessary.

Did the Silver Star lose riders when they dropped the diner?

Did the City of New Orleans lose riders when they dropped the regular diner menu?

I can say that when we rode the City of New Orleans a month or so back the food was nasty, the worst I have ever had onboard a diner. It certainly doesn't make one want to think of spending the kind of money that it cost for sleepers and then have to put up with unpleasant meals for several days or more. I know its not the past, but when you view you tube the various 50's and earlier movies about name brand trains promoting rail service they make a big deal of giving the passenger the quality of food they would expect from a fine hotel or restaurant. They knew you had to have amenities that would help draw customers to your route. Granted they all fell apart, but times are changing and Rail service is again a growing choice for some travelers. Hardly the time to run them off with poor food and especially boxed meals for days on end.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I agree the City of New Orleans food is terrible. The boxed meals looks like a huge improvement.. hopefully the City gets them ASAP.

 

[CHvision]

https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/a-win-for-the-national-network-and-the-southwest-chief/

 

[greatcats]

I will be riding the CONO in December coach from New Orleans to Chicago. I intend to have a good meal before departing New Orleans and other than maybe a snack and drink, don’t intend to bother with their lousy food service.

 

[fredmcain]

The RPA just updated their blog with a post about the SWC being saved for now. https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/a-win-for-the-national-network-and-the-southwest-chief/

Excerpt (emphasis mine):

The Senate voted today to pass a funding bill that includes $2.5 billion for passenger rail and ensures the Southwest Chief continues along its established route, turning back an Amtrak proposal to fragment the service with a bus-bridge.

I'm not sure if this is a victory or not. If there's dedicated funding in it for the SWC it is a victory, otherwise it's just the hollow resolution.

And another thing - does this have to pass the House yet? If so, it's far from a "done deal".

-FMC

 

[Palmetto]

The RPA just updated their blog with a post about the SWC being saved for now. https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/a-win-for-the-national-network-and-the-southwest-chief/

Excerpt (emphasis mine):

The Senate voted today to pass a funding bill that includes $2.5 billion for passenger rail and ensures the Southwest Chief continues along its established route, turning back an Amtrak proposal to fragment the service with a bus-bridge.

I'm not sure if this is a victory or not. If there's dedicated funding in it for the SWC it is a victory, otherwise it's just the hollow resolution.

And another thing - does this have to pass the House yet? If so, it's far from a "done deal".

-FMC

Yes, now dickering needs to be done between the House and the Senate.

 

[bretton88]

So there's (minimum) 50 million in this bill for the Raton line. Plus the existing Build grant (which Amtrak is required to spend the 3 million matching funds). So that means 75ish million for the Raton line. That's not bad. I would say Anderson's negotiating worked, though I do suspect this won't be the last word. Hopefully this will give impetus to the states, Amtrak, and BNSF to work out a business plan for this line

 

[railiner]

The RPA just updated their blog with a post about the SWC being saved for now. https://www.railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/a-win-for-the-national-network-and-the-southwest-chief/

Excerpt (emphasis mine):

The Senate voted today to pass a funding bill that includes $2.5 billion for passenger rail and ensures the Southwest Chief continues along its established route, turning back an Amtrak proposal to fragment the service with a bus-bridge.

I'm not sure if this is a victory or not. If there's dedicated funding in it for the SWC it is a victory, otherwise it's just the hollow resolution.

And another thing - does this have to pass the House yet? If so, it's far from a "done deal".

-FMC

Yes, now dickering needs to be done between the House and the Senate.

What about The Prez signing off on it? Any problems possible, there? Hope not...he did claim to be "for restoring infrastructure"....

 

[Amtrakfflyer]

The Prez is irrelevant at this point. Literally all hot air at this point.

 

[cpotisch]

At Chicago yesterday the Texas Eagle was listed as trains 21, 421, and 321. I take it there is a St. Louis cutoff coach as well?

21/22 is the normal CHI-SAS Texas Eagle. 421/422 are the CHI-LAX through cars. 321/322 is the extra CHI-STL coach. It’s been this way for years.

 

[cpotisch]

Been reading the thread for the past couple of days.

If someone’s looking to book a SWC trip, what’s the current suggestion? I’m looking at Cardinal + SWC in mid-November, which means I should have no intermediate buses but food is potentially changing?

Book and keep your fingers crossed. Then raise hell with customer relations if they cancel it.

 

[jis]

Now we are talking!

Here is the exact language of the amendment:

SA 3665. Mr. MORAN (for himself, Mr. UDALL, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. GARDNER, and Mr. BENNET) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 3399 proposed by Mr. SHELBY to the bill H.R. 6147, making appropriations for the Department
of the Interior, environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2019, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:


On page 464, line 24, strike ‘‘regulation.’’ and insert the following: ‘‘regulation:

Provided further, That not less than $50,000,000 of the amount provided under this heading shall be for capital expenses related to safety improvements, maintenance, and the non-Federal match for discretionary Federal grant programs to enable continued passenger rail operations on long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations):

Provided further, That none of the funds provided under this heading shall be used by Amtrak to give notice under subsection (a) or (b) of section 24706 of title 49, United States Code, with respect to long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations), or otherwise initiate discontinuance of, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the schedule or route of rail service on any portion of such route operated in fiscal year 2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 24305(a)(3)(A) of title 49, United States Code, in lieu of rail service.’’.

It basically bans discontinuing the SWC on the Colorado - New Mexico section that is threatened by the Anderson regime, and directs spending of at least $50 million to fix it up. Also disallows using lack of PTC as an excuse for that segment.

This is the sort of language I was looking for.

However, they need to go further and protect the other segments of the LD network threatened by the unreasonable PTC stance taken by the Anderson regime in this case. There are such segments affecting the CZ, the CS, the Cardinal and possibly others. Of course there is the case of the Vermonter, and indeed the Lake Shore Limited Boston Section, since Amtrak's very own Post Road Connector is apparently lacking.

It is quite clear that whatever his motivation, Anderson and his regime cannot be trusted, since he has tried to use tired old arguments regarding cost per rider and absurd unexplained cost allocations. It makes sense to challenge every attempt to use arguments based on known jiggery-pokery with numbers.

This is not to say that many aspects of Amtrak need not be rethought. But the methods being used so far appear to be quite suspect.

In any case, if this was all a posturing to jiggle lose some directed funding for the Raton route, that appears to be succeeding. Although there is still the reconciliation with the House THUD Bill to go.

 

[JRR]

I agree the City of New Orleans food is terrible. The boxed meals looks like a huge improvement.. hopefully the City gets them ASAP.

Just rode both and I’ll take the CONO over the CL. The sausage biscuit wasn’t bad and a big improvement over the offering on the CL. The short rib wasn’t bad except for being way to salty. My wife didn’t like the so-called Caesar Salad on the CL but did say the chicken was ok.

 

[tonijustine]

Now we are talking!

Here is the exact language of the amendment:

SA 3665. Mr. MORAN (for himself, Mr. UDALL, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. GARDNER, and Mr. BENNET) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 3399 proposed by Mr. SHELBY to the bill H.R. 6147, making appropriations for the Department

of the Interior, environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2019, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:



On page 464, line 24, strike ‘‘regulation.’’ and insert the following: ‘‘regulation:

Provided further, That not less than $50,000,000 of the amount provided under this heading shall be for capital expenses related to safety improvements, maintenance, and the non-Federal match for discretionary Federal grant programs to enable continued passenger rail operations on long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations):

Provided further, That none of the funds provided under this heading shall be used by Amtrak to give notice under subsection (a) or (b) of section 24706 of title 49, United States Code, with respect to long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations), or otherwise initiate discontinuance of, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the schedule or route of rail service on any portion of such route operated in fiscal year 2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 24305(a)(3)(A) of title 49, United States Code, in lieu of rail service.’’.

It basically bans discontinuing the SWC on the Colorado - New Mexico section that is threatened by the Anderson regime, and directs spending of at least $50 million to fix it up. Also disallows using lack of PTC as an excuse for that segment.
This is the sort of language I was looking for.

However, they need to go further and protect the other segments of the LD network threatened by the unreasonable PTC stance taken by the Anderson regime in this case. There are such segments affecting the CZ, the CS, the Cardinal and possibly others. Of course there is the case of the Vermonter, and indeed the Lake Shore Limited Boston Section, since Amtrak's very own Post Road Connector is apparently lacking.

It is quite clear that whatever his motivation, Anderson and his regime cannot be trusted, since he has tried to use tired old arguments regarding cost per rider and absurd unexplained cost allocations. It makes sense to challenge every attempt to use arguments based on known jiggery-pokery with numbers.

This is not to say that many aspects of Amtrak need not be rethought. But the methods being used so far appear to be quite suspect.

In any case, if this was all a posturing to jiggle lose some directed funding for the Raton route, that appears to be succeeding. Although there is still the reconciliation with the House THUD Bill to go.

So playing Devil’s Advocate...what if Anderson isn’t incompetent but a genius and knew that threats of this nature would get the populace riled up and force Congress to act?

Congress grilled him earlier this year about safety standards. He can’t be the one to ignore that kind of public pressure but I’d be like “be careful what you wish for” and take a hardline stance and then point back to Congress and make them fix it.

Same with F&B. I can tell you what you are demanding happen is bad for business or I can do exactly as you say and then when it proves I was right, I get the chance to actually fix it.

I don’t know, but isn’t it an intriguing thought? If Congress thinks they know how to run a railroad, then give them enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[bretton88]

Now we are talking!

Here is the exact language of the amendment:

SA 3665. Mr. MORAN (for himself, Mr. UDALL, Mr. ROBERTS, Mr. HEINRICH, Mr. GARDNER, and Mr. BENNET) submitted an amendment intended to be proposed to amendment SA 3399 proposed by Mr. SHELBY to the bill H.R. 6147, making appropriations for the Department

of the Interior, environment, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2019, and for other purposes; which was ordered to lie on the table; as follows:



On page 464, line 24, strike ‘‘regulation.’’ and insert the following: ‘‘regulation:

Provided further, That not less than $50,000,000 of the amount provided under this heading shall be for capital expenses related to safety improvements, maintenance, and the non-Federal match for discretionary Federal grant programs to enable continued passenger rail operations on long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations):

Provided further, That none of the funds provided under this heading shall be used by Amtrak to give notice under subsection (a) or (b) of section 24706 of title 49, United States Code, with respect to long-distance routes (as defined in section 24102 of title 49, United States Code) on which Amtrak is the sole tenant of the host railroad and positive train control systems are not required by law (including regulations), or otherwise initiate discontinuance of, reduce the frequency of, suspend, or substantially alter the schedule or route of rail service on any portion of such route operated in fiscal year 2018, including implementation of service permitted by section 24305(a)(3)(A) of title 49, United States Code, in lieu of rail service.’’.

It basically bans discontinuing the SWC on the Colorado - New Mexico section that is threatened by the Anderson regime, and directs spending of at least $50 million to fix it up. Also disallows using lack of PTC as an excuse for that segment.
This is the sort of language I was looking for.

However, they need to go further and protect the other segments of the LD network threatened by the unreasonable PTC stance taken by the Anderson regime in this case. There are such segments affecting the CZ, the CS, the Cardinal and possibly others. Of course there is the case of the Vermonter, and indeed the Lake Shore Limited Boston Section, since Amtrak's very own Post Road Connector is apparently lacking.

It is quite clear that whatever his motivation, Anderson and his regime cannot be trusted, since he has tried to use tired old arguments regarding cost per rider and absurd unexplained cost allocations. It makes sense to challenge every attempt to use arguments based on known jiggery-pokery with numbers.

This is not to say that many aspects of Amtrak need not be rethought. But the methods being used so far appear to be quite suspect.

In any case, if this was all a posturing to jiggle lose some directed funding for the Raton route, that appears to be succeeding. Although there is still the reconciliation with the House THUD Bill to go.

The CZ may be in more trouble than just no PTC. Take a look at Fred Fraileys piece, I can verify UP is eyeing a downgrade of the Moffat route, though the timeline is not established. It could be many years in the future, it could be tomorrow. There's a reason there's discussions about a Wyoming reroute.

 

[keelhauled]

The CZ may be in more trouble than just no PTC. Take a look at Fred Fraileys piece, I can verify UP is eyeing a downgrade of the Moffat route, though the timeline is not established. It could be many years in the future, it could be tomorrow. There's a reason there's discussions about a Wyoming reroute.

This the Frailey piece? Interesting, hadn't seen it before. Didn't realize traffic was so slim over the Rockies.

 

[frequentflyer]

Its been rumored for years that UP would down grade the line. Why send trains though Colorado when the easier and faster way is north to Wyoming then west.

The line's only hope is that the state of Colorado buys the line for travel to Winter Park and Glenwood Springs.

Its on my bucket list to ride this line from Denver to Salt Lake City.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I wonder which line is in more immediate peril -- the California Zephyr or the Canadian. Both seem to be in a precarious situation now.

 

[jis]

California Zephyr at most faces a reversion to the route of the original Amtrak San Francisco Zephyr, but with a visit the Salt Lake City instead of running via Ogden. It is not facing discontinuance, just a bit of ridership hit perhaps.

 

[bretton88]

Its been rumored for years that UP would down grade the line. Why send trains though Colorado when the easier and faster way is north to Wyoming then west.

The line's only hope is that the state of Colorado buys the line for travel to Winter Park and Glenwood Springs.

Its on my bucket list to ride this line from Denver to Salt Lake City.

My guess is BNSF would get first option on any sale of the line, since they have trackage rights on the Moffat line. No idea if they'd be interested. Back on topic, I wonder what 75 million would go to for the Raton line? Does Amtrak have a list of improvements ready to invest in? I wonder if BNSF would sell it to Amtrak? Would Amtrak be interested even?

 

[zephyr17]

BNSF would be glad to sell it. They already sold it to New Mexico, but NM reneged on the contract.

No way Amtrak will buy it. My understanding is BNSF will agree to continuing to maintain it for 20 years if Amtrak/New Mexico pay to do improvements on the line (new rail, etc) that will reduce maintenance costs, since right now the condition of that line is pretty much end-of-life (well beyond really). Those improvements were part of what the TIGER Grant's were for.