St. Paul, Milwaukee, Chicago (TCMC) second daily service

[TransitTyrant]

The Great River officially has a start month, September 2023
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/mi...ance_passenger_rail_operations_assistance.pdf

 

[jphjaxfl]

I traveled on Amtrak #9 and #10 which was originally the North Coast Hiawatha and at end the Duluth - Twin Cities Chicago over night train. I was stationed at Grand Forks AFB from 1972 through May, 1975. While the Empire Builder was my train, I also would get a ride to Fargo and catch the NCH which had a convenient 6:40 AM departure and late night arrival in Fargo. In 1975, I moved to Minneapolis and would frequently catch the NCH which had a 1:00 PM departure from Minneapolis and 8:20PM arrival in Chicago. I often transferred to the Floridian which left at 9:00 PM and there was usually a number of people making that connection. When it became and overnight train, I would frequently travel to Chicago for a long weekend getting a roomette to Chicago on #10 and coming back Sunday on the Empire Builder's daytime schedule. Unfortunately when they changed #9 and #10 to an over night schedule the lost many of the local passengers along the Hiawatha line. When it was the NCH, the train had a Dining Car and I would have lunch departing Minneapolis. They had the best Reuben Sandwiches. When the NCH was 3 times a week from Seattle, a former NP Ranch car served meals between Minneapolis when it was just the Twin Cities Hiawatha. When #9 and #10 were overnight between Minneapolis and Chicago, the coaches were Amfleet with a Snack bar. The Twin Cities to Chicago has potential for lots of passengers. Up until Amtrak started, there was still 4 daily trains in each direction on the Burlington and Milwaukee Road.

 

[Amtrak25]

There is no way there can be a connection with the future Duluth train since it will run only down to the commuter train terminal in Minneapolis. A future Fargo train that would run into St Paul.

Forget about sleepers. This is a day train. My guess it will be like other midwset corridor trains: a random consist of Horizon, Amfleet-1, and Venture cars, probably push-pull since they will not want to do any wying or looping in the St Paul area. Imagine sitting in those Venture seats for 8 hours.

 

[Mr.Technician]

Imagine sitting in those Venture seats for 8 hours.

I must be missing something because I thought the Venture coaches were pretty nice?

 

[Amtrak25]

I must be missing something because I thought the Venture coaches were pretty nice?

What others have said who have used them is their so-called recline is by sliding out the bottom, and not by much. They are also hard and narrow due to ADA-compliant wide aisles. The cars only have one bathroom. We know how rapidly Amtrak toilets become unusable.

 

[John Bredin]

What others have said who have used them is their so-called recline is by sliding out the bottom, and not by much. They are also hard and narrow due to ADA-compliant wide aisles. The cars only have one bathroom. We know how rapidly Amtrak toilets become unusable.

IMHO, recline is overrated. Last time I was on the train, the person in front of me in a Horizon car reclined practically into my lap. Reclining more than _/ when there's another passenger behind you has always struck me as a bit "hurrah for me, and the devil take the hindmost."

As to hard seats, I was able to sit in a Venture coach for only a while, as I was assigned by destination to one of the Horizon cars. That said, the Venture coach seat didn't strike me as actually hard. It's not heavily-padded or cushy, but that isn't the same thing. There are comfortable chairs with no cushions at all, which achieve their comfort by ergonomic design. Which isn't to say the Venture coach seats are in that group, just that comfort is not synonymous with heavy padding.

I haven't seen (to be fair, I haven't gone looking for) feedback from someone who sat in a Venture seat for 5-8 hours. I've seen plenty of feedback along the lines of "I sat in it for a couple of hours and it was fine, but I assume/presume/intuit/guess because I don't see a lot of padding that it wouldn't be comfortable for 5 or more hours."

 

[Eric S]

I've ridden and sat in a Venture seat between Chicago and Ann Arbor and between Chicago and St. Louis, trips of about 4.5-5.5 hours. I thought the seats were okay-ish. I think I probably shifted around a bit more than I might have in another Amtrak seat. I definitely would not say that I thought the seats were overly comfortable but I also don't plan to make an effort to avoid riding in a Venture coach and seek out Amfleet or Horizon coaches instead (when given the opportunity).

 

[wxmeddler]

Any updates on Great River / TCMC? I know the last word was September but I looked at bookings through December and no options yet.

 

[Eric S]

The idea of a September start seems to have come from a WI legislative committee report. When asked about it, IIRC Amtrak basically said "no start date has been decided upon" yet. I don't believe we've heard anything else.

 

[vap0rtranz]

The official website has been quiet. Last update was in May.

https://www.greatriverrail.org/blog/categories/news-release

 

[AmtrakFlyer]

Amtrak can’t provide reliable service on current routes for many reasons and those reasons change by the month. Expecting reliable new services to start any time soon isn’t going to happen.

 

[TransitTyrant]

Amtrak can’t provide reliable service on current routes for many reasons and those reasons continue to change by the month. Expecting reliable new services to start any time soon isn’t going to happen.

Except the service is already funded and cleared to start.

 

[TransitTyrant]

The official website has been quiet. Last update was in May.

https://www.greatriverrail.org/blog/categories/news-release

That’s not the official website, that’s an advocacy group.

 

[jebr]

Yeah, I haven't heard much about a start date beyond "hopefully fall 2023." Basically it's just finding the staffing and equipment to run it. I do recall them potentially starting with a few days a week schedule if they can't immediately staff up to a full 7-day-a-week schedule.

I'm just hoping they have it squared away by mid-November so I can use my vouchers to book the first trip before the vouchers expire!

 

[west point]

IMO CPAK allowing start of service before all improvements will be a very well received. As a series of schedule reductions happens as the improvements are implemented Amtrak and CPAK will receive a lot of good publicity. That in contrast to CSX's push to prevent gulf coast service to Mobile.

 

[vap0rtranz]

That’s not the official website, that’s an advocacy group.

OK, where is the official site?

 

[BlackDiamond]

OK, where is the official site?

https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/multimodal/tcmc.aspx
Found by googling "TCMC train" it was the first hit.

 

[vap0rtranz]

Thanks for sharing. Not all of us trust Google.

I won't hold my breath that the Wisconsin DOT will regularly update the official site because I live in Wisconsin

The Wisconsin Association of Railroad Passengers has been regularly updating on the line as well. Its site is at: Wisconsin Association of Railroad Passengers

 

[Eric S]

I don't think there is a single official site but both MnDOT and WisDOT have sites with info on the TCMC train.

 

[Mr.Technician]

Well, the September estimate has come and gone. :/

 

[OmahaRoad]

Do not fret, all! Seriously, there's a ton of work going on in the background. I attended the early September Great River Rail Commission meeting, where a MnDOT representative provided an update on the status of the TCMC! It is happening and there's just a ton of various details to be worked out. The MnDOT employee said, for example, that they hadn't yet signed the service agreement between the three state DOTs. Good news is that Amtrak has apparently already pre-qualified crews for the route, so that's not going to be an issue. The MnDOT rep said that there will be an OFFICIAL announcement about the service starting once all the Ts are crossed and Is dotted, and that service will begin about one month after THAT date.

It's looking like the service won't begin until late 2023/early 2024 at this time, but let's hope they wrap up all the prep work and can make the official announcement in October or early November, in time for service to begin before the bitter end of the year!

 

[TransitTyrant]

Do not fret, all! Seriously, there's a ton of work going on in the background. I attended the early September Great River Rail Commission meeting, where a MnDOT representative provided an update on the status of the TCMC! It is happening and there's just a ton of various details to be worked out. The MnDOT employee said, for example, that they hadn't yet signed the service agreement between the three state DOTs. Good news is that Amtrak has apparently already pre-qualified crews for the route, so that's not going to be an issue. The MnDOT rep said that there will be an OFFICIAL announcement about the service starting once all the Ts are crossed and Is dotted, and that service will begin about one month after THAT date.

It's looking like the service won't begin until late 2023/early 2024 at this time, but let's hope they wrap up all the prep work and can make the official announcement in October or early November, in time for service to begin before the bitter end of the year!

I’ve heard a similar sentiment. Crew change will take place in Milwaukee but one detail that needs ironing out is where the train will be refueled in St Paul.

 

[OmahaRoad]

I’ve heard a similar sentiment. Crew change will take place in Milwaukee but one detail that needs ironing out is where the train will be refueled in St Paul.

Glad you've heard similar things! This isn't directed at anyone on this forum (cough, social media, cough), but I get worried sometimes when people who haven't yet heard the most recent details on TCMC start speculating and cause undue fears that things "aren't happening" or there's some sort of problem--when the reality is that behind the scenes, things are slowly humming along.

Anyway! Interesting to know about the crew change in Milwaukee. I'd heard the same re: St. Paul refueling and general storage/light maintenance as needed; I know there's talk about the old Midway station area being used in some way for those purposes.

 

[Amtrak25]

I am going to risk everyone's wrath and say it - SPUD was a mistake and an exercise in vanity.

- Most people are headed to Minneapolis, long ride on the LRT system to get there,
- Lost the services of Minnesota Commerical to switch cars, be it PV's or a Chicago cut coach,
- Requires engagement of UP dispatcher in Omaha to get in and out (unless things have changed).
- They could have replaced the Midway station house with something like they built in Albany or Rochester, NY.
- Evidently, it is a PIA to refuel.

 

[TransitTyrant]

Amtrak ran an inspection train over the route today consisting of a P42, three Superliners, and an inspection car.