Steak Lovers Beware!

[p&sr]

I haven't been on a train with a dining car this year, but how can you just pass it immediately as pot roast?

Once again we have a choice. Either the meat is NOT a steak... or they have done something to it such that NOBODY can recognize it, even as a steak-that-once-was.

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Be it Pot Roast or highly modified Steak, I do not care as whatever it is, it is GOOD! Toss on a Baked Potato and the Mixed Veggies, capped with a wicked dessert and I'm set for an evening of Lounging and Sleeping.

 

[PetalumaLoco]

Be it Pot Roast or highly modified Steak, I do not care as whatever it is, it is GOOD! Toss on a Baked Potato and the Mixed Veggies, capped with a wicked dessert and I'm set for an evening of Lounging and Sleeping.

Oh, it was good, I like pot roast, but it's mislabeled. If they menued it as pot roast, I'd have nothing to complain about.

 

[Guest]

I had it on the SL and I thought it was terrible!Being a texan I know good beef and this is not good beef!Perhaps lovers of pot roast like this stuff,OK, but change the menu and list wine cooked,braised pot roast which is what it is!(and @ $22.50 as many have said truely not worth it!

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

I had it on the SL and I thought it was terrible!Being a texan I know good beef and this is not good beef!Perhaps lovers of pot roast like this stuff,OK, but change the menu and list wine cooked,braised pot roast which is what it is!(and @ $22.50 as many have said truely not worth it!

Being from Ohio I can say longhorn steer is overrated. :unsure:

A good broast is as good as a good grilled cut. Believe it or not that is flat iron steak, steak is a cut not a method of cooking.

 

[frj1983]

*invokes Weber's Law*
Do you think they'll offer steak on the NOL-SAS stub train?

Hey GML, I know it's off topic, but what is a 'stub train'? :unsure:

It is a train which primarily exists to provide further service from a point on a trains route to a point it does not serve. For example, the train that ran from Boston to Albany to convey passengers to and from the Lake Shore Limited was a stub train. Now, of course, we have a through train that provides that service.

Weber's law is an old joke about how if a topic goes on for too long, it will eventually result in a debate about the Sunset Limited.

And thank goodness for that as my Wife and I will not have to get off the train in Albany this Saturday!

 

[cpamtfan]

I had it on the SL and I thought it was terrible!Being a texan I know good beef and this is not good beef!Perhaps lovers of pot roast like this stuff,OK, but change the menu and list wine cooked,braised pot roast which is what it is!(and @ $22.50 as many have said truely not worth it!

Being from Ohio I can say longhorn steer is overrated. :unsure:

A good broast is as good as a good grilled cut. Believe it or not that is flat iron steak, steak is a cut not a method of cooking.

So you also think it is steak just not to the tastes of everyone?

 

[Neil_M]

I had it on the SL and I thought it was terrible!Being a texan I know good beef and this is not good beef!Perhaps lovers of pot roast like this stuff,OK, but change the menu and list wine cooked,braised pot roast which is what it is!(and @ $22.50 as many have said truely not worth it!

Being from Ohio I can say longhorn steer is overrated. :unsure:

A good broast is as good as a good grilled cut. Believe it or not that is flat iron steak, steak is a cut not a method of cooking.

In your constant need to be right all the time you missed his point.

Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.

Pot Roast is generally thought to be suitable for cheaper cuts of meat that benefit from a longer slower cooking time, and although it can be very tasty, it would be thought of as cheaper than steak.

So you go into a restaurant and order the steak, the waiter tells you there is no steak, but there is a braised beef dish, which you order. Would you expect the cost to be the same?

No.

Because why would you use the same cut of meat you would grill to make a pot roast, human nature would lead you to think you are being ripped off or short changed.

Which you probably are.

 

[sky12065]

Steak Lovers Beware! I just got off the Texas Eagle on 20 May at Chicago. The night before, I requested the flat iron steak. when it came it looked very good, but one bite and something was wrong. The guy across from me said "did you see the asterick (*) by the flat iron steak on the menue? I had not but roughly what it said was "during high demand, beef shanks (I think) will be substituted during high demand when flat iron steaks are no longer available. Other than that, it was a good trip. Ahead of tme at St Louis but :40 late at Chicago. Jim

I haven't read the mountain of posts on this topic, but according to what was stated in the OP above, the "flat iron steak" and the substituted "beef flank" are simply not the same thing.

The flat iron steak is taken from the shoulder (1) of a cow (2) whereas the substituted beef flank is taken from the leg (3) of the steer or calf!

As for which is better...

1. Is there really an answer to that question, or

2. Is it for each to decide for themselves depending on their own individual taste?

I vote for choice 3. Both are yummy!

You can learn more about the flat iron steaks from footnote (1) below:

(1) http://en.allexperts.com/e/f/fl/flat_iron_steak.htm

(2) http://en.allexperts.com/e/c/co/cow_(disambiguation).htm

(3) http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shank

 

[AAARGH!]

I like them both, but don't call a roast a flat iron steak. It isn't. It is misleading. That being said, if it said pot roast, I would still get it, but don't give me a pot roast when it says flat iron.

Truth in advertising should go for menus also.

 

[Ispolkom]

Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.

You're right. People have expected steak to be grilled since time immemorial. Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method, steikja, to roast on a stake (Since it's Old Norse, this usage probably predates grills). I'd say this trumps any marketing claims to the contrary.

Not that I don't love pot roast, mind you.

 

[PaulM]

On a trip recently my wife ordered flat iron steak in a restaurant, remembering how she liked Amtrak's version. I took the opportunity to mention that flat iron no longer equals steak on Amtrak. She must have not have been paying attention because on the trip home on the LSL, she ordered the whatever it is.

I don't recall the word steak on the menu. Nevertheless, one word describes the two tiny pieces of stew meat - embarrassing. If it was pot roast, it never saw a pot.

 

[Upstate]

I don't recall the word steak on the menu.

Its not on all the menus as steak. On the Amtrak website it looks like only the Crescent and Empire Builder actually use the word steak. I know that about a month ago when I ordered the steak that was on the menu on the Crescent they brought me out the roast.

 

[Ispolkom]

On the Amtrak Web site the Lakeshore Limited menu has "Red Wine Braised Flat Iron of Beef" while the other trains menu gives us "Braised Flat Iron Bordelaise." To give Amtrak credit, the S word isn't used anywhere, and both descriptions do clearly say "braised." The descriptions seem to be very similar.

The Empire Builder menu has "Butcher's Choice Cut Steak," but that seems to be what I'd consider a proper steak grilled to order (though I notice they don't use the word grill). Are these the products we're talking about?

 

[D T Nelson]

I have not eaten the new braised flat iron steak. But according to this article at Trains.com, it is the same cut of meat as the grilled flat iron steak, just cooked a different way, to provide for faster service during the peak season. Says Amtrak's top chef, "The flat iron is one of the few beef cuts that has the ability to be cooked with dry heat as a steak, or braised in a flavorful liquid, and produce a juicy, fork-tender, flavorful product. We have had great luck with the flat iron as a cooked-to-order steak, and my goal, knowing the versatility of the cut, was to offer a preparation that would successfully showcase it as a braised item."

 

[Guest]

I have not eaten the new braised flat iron steak. But according to this article at Trains.com, it is the same cut of meat as the grilled flat iron steak, just cooked a different way, to provide for faster service during the peak season. Says Amtrak's top chef, "The flat iron is one of the few beef cuts that has the ability to be cooked with dry heat as a steak, or braised in a flavorful liquid, and produce a juicy, fork-tender, flavorful product. We have had great luck with the flat iron as a cooked-to-order steak, and my goal, knowing the versatility of the cut, was to offer a preparation that would successfully showcase it as a braised item."

Bet Amtraks "top chef" doesnt eat that stuff,he probably grills himself a big filet to taste!I know this stuff is going away,Amtrak should send everyone who didnt like it and complains a voucher @ least for the cost of that so called top of the line meal!I dont like pot roast as a rule,and this is a great way to ruin what probably is fairly good meat!Just be honest andmake your top of the menu entree "top of the line"!!

 

[sky12065]

Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.

You're right. People have expected steak to be grilled since time immemorial. Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method, steikja, to roast on a stake (Since it's Old Norse, this usage probably predates grills). I'd say this trumps any marketing claims to the contrary.

Not that I don't love pot roast, mind you.

I'd like to see your dictionary source that states it's derived from the "cooking method"! I checked eight definition sources and found no mention of any "cooking method"!

There are several kinds of steaks whereas you can have a beef steak from a few different parts of the cow and that includes a groundbeef hamburger steak; you can also have a ham steak; you can have a large cross section of a large fish i.e. swordfish steak; you can have a pork steak, a venison steak and a bear steak. Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

BTW, there is no reason why you cannot roast a beef flat iron steak (aka top blade steak). It's part of the shoulder and a shoulder is the best choice of beef for roasting. The question that is more important though is... is roasting the best way to cook a flat iron steak? The answer is no! Braising is the better way to cook a flat iron steak and that's because it has a large band of connective tissue running down the center of the steak, and braising does a better job of breaking down that tissue.

 

[MrFSS]

Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

I think that one is spelled S T A K E.

 

[JayPea]

As for me, I stick with fish or chicken............

 

[haolerider]

As for me, I stick with fish or chicken............

Isn't it about time to kill this topic? How many times can people talk about this entree?

 

[sky12065]

Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

I think that one is spelled S T A K E.

True, but spelling it that wouldn't have been as funny! But then again, I would steak my reputation on it! :lol:

 

[Ispolkom]

Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.

You're right. People have expected steak to be grilled since time immemorial. Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method, steikja, to roast on a stake (Since it's Old Norse, this usage probably predates grills). I'd say this trumps any marketing claims to the contrary.

Not that I don't love pot roast, mind you.

I'd like to see your dictionary source that states it's derived from the "cooking method"! I checked eight definition sources and found no mention of any "cooking method"!

There are several kinds of steaks whereas you can have a beef steak from a few different parts of the cow and that includes a groundbeef hamburger steak; you can also have a ham steak; you can have a large cross section of a large fish i.e. swordfish steak; you can have a pork steak, a venison steak and a bear steak. Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

Webster's Third International, my favorite unabridged dictionary, gives this etymology: Middle English steyke, steke, from Old Norse steik; akin to Old Norse steikja to roast on a spit, stik stick, stake --

Then, let's turn to the definitions. Under "steak" we find "a slice of meat cut from a fleshy part of a beef carcass usually in cross section and usually cooked or to be cooked by broiling. Under beefsteak we find "a steak of beef usually cut from the hindquarter and suitable for broiling or frying.

I'd argue, though I present no evidence, that usages like "ham steak" and "swordfish steak" also imply that the cut will be broiled or fried. You'd certainly not braise a ham steak. But now you've gotten me wondering why you "stake a bet." I'll be pulling old books off the shelf tonight.

 

[ALC Rail Writer]

The grandson of a meat cutter, and former meat packer, let me say it one last time:

The method of preparation does NOT define the cut of meat... There are steaks for braising, roasting, grilling, frying, broiling, and stew. You want proof? Try grilling a flank steak and then try braising a strip steak, then try cooking them properly-- the flank by braising and the strip by grilling. You'll find the quality of each meat to be better when they are cooked properly.

Niel you can go try this yourself, but I believe that the British butchers use a different method of cutting than the American map-- however it shouldn't change that steak cut from the shoulder (the chuck) is best roasted or braised due to the relative leanness of the cut compared to other cuts.

Now here's why a flat iron steak is good braised or grilled... because they are not lean relative to the mass of the chuck (typically used for roast, hence chuck roast). This means you don't have to cook a flat iron forever in order to make it tender-- the fatty tissue count is high enough that grilling is all that is needed to break them down whereas a chuck roast (or pot roast if you prefer) must take hours in the oven.

Go to your local butcher and check out the meat case. Look at the marble, the white veins of fat, in the meat. You'll find that meats cut from the hindquarters (strip, sirloin, t-bone, porterhouse, flank) are more marbled than the cuts from the forequarter (the chuck, rib, brisket).

Technically cuts from the middle of the steer are best for grilling, the ribs and loins... however butchers divide the quarters between the ribs and loins because of Jewish dietary law... the hindquarter is not Kosher.

Did I mention he was a Jewish meatcutter?

 

[sky12065]

Rightly or wrongly, people perceive 'steak' to be the best bit of beef, and expect it to be grilled as you like and served like that, maybe with the addition of a sauce.

You're right. People have expected steak to be grilled since time immemorial. Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method, steikja, to roast on a stake (Since it's Old Norse, this usage probably predates grills). I'd say this trumps any marketing claims to the contrary.

Not that I don't love pot roast, mind you.

I'd like to see your dictionary source that states it's derived from the "cooking method"! I checked eight definition sources and found no mention of any "cooking method"!

There are several kinds of steaks whereas you can have a beef steak from a few different parts of the cow and that includes a groundbeef hamburger steak; you can also have a ham steak; you can have a large cross section of a large fish i.e. swordfish steak; you can have a pork steak, a venison steak and a bear steak. Why you can even have a steak that's used to kill a vampire, but I'm not sure how you would cook it... it's going to be tough and a risk to your teeth, even if its marinated - no matter how it's cooked.

Webster's Third International, my favorite unabridged dictionary, gives this etymology: Middle English steyke, steke, from Old Norse steik; akin to Old Norse steikja to roast on a spit, stik stick, stake --

Then, let's turn to the definitions. Under "steak" we find "a slice of meat cut from a fleshy part of a beef carcass usually in cross section and usually cooked or to be cooked by broiling. Under beefsteak we find "a steak of beef usually cut from the hindquarter and suitable for broiling or frying.

I'd argue, though I present no evidence, that usages like "ham steak" and "swordfish steak" also imply that the cut will be broiled or fried. You'd certainly not braise a ham steak. But now you've gotten me wondering why you "stake a bet." I'll be pulling old books off the shelf tonight.

In reading your response, it seems to me like you're trying to answer a question I didn't even ask! However, I have a feeling that I didn't correctly understand your objective when you made the statement "Look at the word itself. According to my dictionary "steak" is not derived from a part of the cow, it's derived from the cooking method"

I origionally thought that your saying "steak ...it's derived from the cooking method" was an actual definition rather than a part of the etymology! So in that context I now think I see your point and dispite my difficulty in comprehending that, I don't think I would disagree with what you've stated!

Now, everything you stated after "I'd argue" should be discarded because it's not relevant to anything I stated or intended on saying or implying even if something I said lead you to make those comments. And finally, the "stake a bet" comment! I didn't state "stake a bet"! What I did state was "steak my reputation" in another reply and it was strictly a statement made in humor!

 

[Neil_M]

The grandson of a meat cutter, and former meat packer, let me say it one last time:
The method of preparation does NOT define the cut of meat... There are steaks for braising, roasting, grilling, frying, broiling, and stew. You want proof? Try grilling a flank steak and then try braising a strip steak, then try cooking them properly-- the flank by braising and the strip by grilling. You'll find the quality of each meat to be better when they are cooked properly.

Niel you can go try this yourself, but I believe that the British butchers use a different method of cutting than the American map-- however it shouldn't change that steak cut from the shoulder (the chuck) is best roasted or braised due to the relative leanness of the cut compared to other cuts.

Now here's why a flat iron steak is good braised or grilled... because they are not lean relative to the mass of the chuck (typically used for roast, hence chuck roast). This means you don't have to cook a flat iron forever in order to make it tender-- the fatty tissue count is high enough that grilling is all that is needed to break them down whereas a chuck roast (or pot roast if you prefer) must take hours in the oven.

Go to your local butcher and check out the meat case. Look at the marble, the white veins of fat, in the meat. You'll find that meats cut from the hindquarters (strip, sirloin, t-bone, porterhouse, flank) are more marbled than the cuts from the forequarter (the chuck, rib, brisket).

Technically cuts from the middle of the steer are best for grilling, the ribs and loins... however butchers divide the quarters between the ribs and loins because of Jewish dietary law... the hindquarter is not Kosher.

Did I mention he was a Jewish meatcutter?

Sorry, don't do religion. Especially when it comes to telling you what you can and cant eat, most odd.

All your points may or may not be true.

If you order a steak in a restaurant then you expect a grilled cut of beef.