Sunset must go daily

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Amtrak needs to stop screwing around. All Sunset needs is 3 addition trainsets and a 4th for replacement for daily service.

Repair 8 of the single level coaches(Amfleet, viewliners, horizon) thats is rusting away. 4 diners, 12 sleepers, 4-8 engines...maybe the p32's

in storage. Or buy new from Colorado rail. It is much cheaper to opertate a daily Sunset vs a Tri-weekly Sunset.

8 coaches

4 diners

12 sleepers

4 lounge

4-8 locos

Could be all old refurbished equiment. Just do it.
 
I'm just tired of seeing the train "hanging on". Amtrak needs to do one of two things in my opinion:

1) Extend it back to Orlando

or...

2) Make it daily

The train has a lot of potential. It's a shame that potential has to go unused.
 
While we're at it, lets bring back the 20th Century limited, the Dixie Flager, AND City of Miami on daily schedules, the Golden Rocket can finally be born, and we should also and a thrice-daily service between Peoria and Albequrque.

What I mean to say is, given the way you think it can happen, get real!
 
Amtrak needs to stop screwing around. All Sunset needs is 3 addition trainsets and a 4th for replacement for daily service.Repair 8 of the single level coaches(Amfleet, viewliners, horizon) thats is rusting away. 4 diners, 12 sleepers, 4-8 engines...maybe the p32's

in storage. Or buy new from Colorado rail. It is much cheaper to opertate a daily Sunset vs a Tri-weekly Sunset.

8 coaches

4 diners

12 sleepers

4 lounge

4-8 locos

Could be all old refurbished equiment. Just do it.
Good idea to make it daily - but why single level coaches? :huh: The SL operates with Superliner equipment! What will happen in SAS when the TE arrives? Will you make all the thru pax get off and stand around the station al night?

You can't combine Superliner equipment and Amfleet equipment on one train without another car in between!
 
I'm just tired of seeing the train "hanging on". Amtrak needs to do one of two things in my opinion:
1) Extend it back to Orlando

or...

2) Make it daily

The train has a lot of potential. It's a shame that potential has to go unused.
It's not going back to Florida any time soon...

Click Here.
You know what then? Amtrak needs to just take away all reference to the service. They need to update the national route map and do away with the line connecting the two cities, they need to take away the cities between ORL and NOL which are still listed in the timetable, albeit without times next to them, and they need to do away with the "Service between Orlando and New Orleans has been suspended. Future service has not been determined." announcement in the timetable. It's all getting rather annoying.
 
Amtrak needs to stop screwing around. All Sunset needs is 3 addition trainsets and a 4th for replacement for daily service.Repair 8 of the single level coaches(Amfleet, viewliners, horizon) thats is rusting away. 4 diners, 12 sleepers, 4-8 engines...maybe the p32's

in storage. Or buy new from Colorado rail. It is much cheaper to opertate a daily Sunset vs a Tri-weekly Sunset.

8 coaches

4 diners

12 sleepers

4 lounge

4-8 locos

Could be all old refurbished equiment. Just do it.
Good idea to make it daily - but why single level coaches? :huh: The SL operates with Superliner equipment! What will happen in SAS when the TE arrives? Will you make all the thru pax get off and stand around the station al night?

You can't combine Superliner equipment and Amfleet equipment on one train without another car in between!
Move the transition sleeper to the back or maybe continue the tri-weekly service of the Eagle on the Sunset Superliner trains only. Either way is better than the

current situation.

Why not superliners? because of the lack of superliners. Amtrak has plenty of single deck coaches on the sideline. I say repair them and use them

Get those Sunset numbers up. Stop giving Amtrak critics Ammunition.
 
You've got to be kidding me. You seriously have got to be kidding me, right? The Sunset as an all coach train? Amtrak has NO spare single level sleepers, single level diners, and few single level cafes- I don't think they have spare lounges, either. Amtrak doesn't have enough single level sleepers and diners for the trains they do run- and all fifty of the Viewliner's built by Morrison-Knudson are in service! Amtrak does not have the equipment to run this daily from Orlando to LAX. The train has never NEVER run daily under Amtrak.

Perhaps the train could be made to run daily NOL to LAX. But not LAX to ORL. No.

BUT! The Superliners from that section of the Sunset Limited could be better used in other ways, such as making the Cardinal Superliner, and using its sleepers to restore the profitable "Twilight Shoreliner", the "Broadway Limited", or both.
 
You've got to be kidding me. You seriously have got to be kidding me, right? The Sunset as an all coach train? Amtrak has NO spare single level sleepers, single level diners, and few single level cafes- I don't think they have spare lounges, either. Amtrak doesn't have enough single level sleepers and diners for the trains they do run- and all fifty of the Viewliner's built by Morrison-Knudson are in service! Amtrak does not have the equipment to run this daily from Orlando to LAX. The train has never NEVER run daily under Amtrak.
Perhaps the train could be made to run daily NOL to LAX. But not LAX to ORL. No.

BUT! The Superliners from that section of the Sunset Limited could be better used in other ways, such as making the Cardinal Superliner, and using its sleepers to restore the profitable "Twilight Shoreliner", the "Broadway Limited", or both.
sheesh, no one said anything about an all coach train. And I was refering to NOL-LAX. Let me get this right, you want Superliners on the NEC
 
The Cardinal once ran WAS to CHI as a Superliner train.
Cardinal now run to NYC.
Nothing stops Amtrak from cutting it back to DC once again, other than perhaps NARP.
So you agree with killing the Sunset for Daily Cardinal.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say any such thing. Just said, that nothing stops Amtrak from cutting the Cardinal back to WAS. It used to run Superliner's to WAS before the Sunset was even cut back to NOL, so there is always the chance of bringing Superliner's back regardless of what does or doesn't happen on the Sunset.
 
The Cardinal once ran WAS to CHI as a Superliner train.
Cardinal now run to NYC.
Nothing stops Amtrak from cutting it back to DC once again, other than perhaps NARP.
So you agree with killing the Sunset for Daily Cardinal.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say any such thing. Just said, that nothing stops Amtrak from cutting the Cardinal back to WAS. It used to run Superliner's to WAS before the Sunset was even cut back to NOL, so there is always the chance of bringing Superliner's back regardless of what does or doesn't happen on the Sunset.
But he said at the expense of killing the Sunset. So let me ask you, do you think Amtrak should kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily?
 
You've got to be kidding me. You seriously have got to be kidding me, right? The Sunset as an all coach train? Amtrak has NO spare single level sleepers, single level diners, and few single level cafes- I don't think they have spare lounges, either. Amtrak doesn't have enough single level sleepers and diners for the trains they do run- and all fifty of the Viewliner's built by Morrison-Knudson are in service! Amtrak does not have the equipment to run this daily from Orlando to LAX. The train has never NEVER run daily under Amtrak.
I'd argue that the Twilight Shoreliner, I mean the train formerly known as the Twilight Shoreliner, demonstrates that Amtrak has negative spare single level sleepers.

Does Morrison-Knudson still exist? If Congress decided to spend money on 50 more Viewliners, would there be any difficulties in getting someone to convert dollars to Viewliners?
 
"Killing" the Sunset, and not utilizing the NOL-ORL marginal equipment to make a train that has never been daily, daily are two different things. This would simply be moving currently unused cars into service elsewhere.
 
Kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily. Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train.

The politics is showing. NEC vs non-NEC. This was a Sunset thread quickly turned into a Kill Sunset

for the benefit of the NEC. What other LD train should be killed to give the NEC more?
 
Kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily. Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train.The politics is showing. NEC vs non-NEC. This was a Sunset thread quickly turned into a Kill Sunset

for the benefit of the NEC. What other LD train should be killed to give the NEC more?
Well the only spare Amfleets sitting around are AMF I's, technically the car of choice for the NEC, which you proposed to give over to a quasi-long distance service. I for one wouldn't want to go ORL to NOL in an AMF I. And there are no mothballed AMF II's sitting around.

That said, no I wouldn't want to see an LD killed just to support a run on the NEC. However, killing the Sunset wouldn't help the NEC anyhow, since it's cars can't run on the NEC. Killing the Sunset to transfer the cars to the Cardinal wouldn't really help the NEC either overall, since the NEC doesn't need AMF II's or Diner-Lite cars. Yes, the Viewliner's could be used on the overnight run, but the revenue doesn't justify that. Now perhaps if by killing the Sunset, the Card went daily, that might be justification financially to do it. As things stand right now, the Card has carried some 10,000 more pax this fiscal year than the Sunset. On the other hand, the Sunset has pulled in more money than the Card has. That however might be equalized by running the Card daily, along with the revenue from putting the current Viewliners on the Card over on the overnight run on the NEC.

But the problem with all of those numbers is that we don't know how much cutting the Sunset out might hurt the numbers on the Crescent, the City, and the services out of LAX. Connecting pax are a reality on Amtrak. A harsh lesson that Amtrak learned recently by cutting the CS out after the mud slide. And it is a proven fact that having the Cardinal run to NY, helped to increase its ridership and its numbers considerably. Cutting it back to DC would cause a drop in those numbers, a drop that running daily might just equalize.

Personally I'd be loath to see any part of Amtrak's route structure be cut, simply to support another route. But if confronted with a choice, something that we're not currently confronted with, then I might have to vote in favor of cutting one train to better another.
 
Kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily. Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train.The politics is showing. NEC vs non-NEC. This was a Sunset thread quickly turned into a Kill Sunset

for the benefit of the NEC. What other LD train should be killed to give the NEC more?
Where do you get "Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train"? :huh: If the Cardinal did in fact again become Superliner, they would be forced to only run it WAS-CHI (as they did in the past)! Superliners can not run at all on the NEC! :rolleyes: Thus, the Cardinal would not run on the NEC at all! :rolleyes:
 
Kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily. Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train.The politics is showing. NEC vs non-NEC. This was a Sunset thread quickly turned into a Kill Sunset

for the benefit of the NEC. What other LD train should be killed to give the NEC more?
Where do you get "Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train"? :huh: If the Cardinal did in fact again become Superliner, they would be forced to only run it WAS-CHI (as they did in the past)! Superliners can not run at all on the NEC! :rolleyes: Thus, the Cardinal would not run on the NEC at all! :rolleyes:
Would there be anything to gain in making the Cardinal Chicago - Washington only on the days it currently doesn't run at all?

I thought that one of the reasons it did fairly well was people could get a one-seat (or one-bed) trip from NYP.

As to removing the sunset totally, very bad idea IMHO - you'd be cutting a whole load of places off from any amtrak service.
 
Kill the Sunset to make the Cardinal daily. Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train.The politics is showing. NEC vs non-NEC. This was a Sunset thread quickly turned into a Kill Sunset

for the benefit of the NEC. What other LD train should be killed to give the NEC more?
Where do you get "Kill the Sunset to add another NEC train"? :huh: If the Cardinal did in fact again become Superliner, they would be forced to only run it WAS-CHI (as they did in the past)! Superliners can not run at all on the NEC! :rolleyes: Thus, the Cardinal would not run on the NEC at all! :rolleyes:
Would there be anything to gain in making the Cardinal Chicago - Washington only on the days it currently doesn't run at all?

I thought that one of the reasons it did fairly well was people could get a one-seat (or one-bed) trip from NYP.

As to removing the sunset totally, very bad idea IMHO - you'd be cutting a whole load of places off from any amtrak service.
There's certainly something to gain by doing that, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea. And it would create great confusion I suspect as people try to figure out why they can't get to/from NY on certain days. And it certainly wouldn't be worth it at the cost of the Sunset.

One also has to remember that the numbers that I mentioned earlier which were mixed between the two trains, could also be affected by making the Sunset daily and/or returning it to Orlando. While Amtrak can't do it at present for lack of equipment, the best answer here is for Amtrak to make both the Cardinal on it's current run daily, as well as making the full length Sunset daily.
 
The thought of killing the Sunset is ridiculous. If that was the case, Amtrak would not offer any service to one of the largest market's in the U.S: Houston. Other key cities which would lose all Amtrak service include El Paso (not a small city), Tucson, and the Phoenix area...not to mention Palm Springs, which seems like it could be a popular market for Amtrak if marketed. Also, killing the Sunset would kill the connections to the Crescent...which, while currently involving an overnight stay in NOL, is bookable on Amtrak.com...and is one which people actually make. Of course, that overnight connection problem could be solved if Amtrak considered a schedule for 1/2 like the one listed below. It would depend on if UP would agree with it, of course. All it would require would be for #20 to depart NOL at 8:00am instead of 7:10am (which would not really adversly affect ANY market on its route to a high degree, including ATL), and #19 would probably have to operate maybe 10-15 minutes earlier just to be safe. I just wonder sometimes if Amtrak even considers things like this or if they are just happy with the status quo?

Dp. New Orleans 855p

Schreiver 1020p

New Iberia 1146p

Lafayette 1214a

Lake Charles 147a

Beaumont 340a

Ar. Houston 630a

Lv. Houston 707a

Ar. San Antonio 1212p

Lv. San Antonio 1232p

Del Rio 337p

Sanderson 612p

Alpine 826p

Ar. El Paso 1212a

Lv. El Paso 1257a

Deming 228a

Lordsburg 323a

Benson 428a

Ar. Tucson 622a

Lv. Tucson 701a

Ar. Maricopa 824a

Lv. Maricopa 834a

Yuma 1121a

Palm Springs 139p

Ontario 307p

Pomona 317p

Ar. Los Angeles 510p

Lv. Los Angeles 700a

Pomona 741a

Ontario 754a

Palm Springs 936a

Yuma 1154a

Ar. Maricopa 237p

Dp. Maricopa 247p

Ar. Tucson 505p

Dp. Tucson 550p

Benson 650p

Lordsburg 950p

Deming 1045p

Ar. El Paso 1246a

Dp. El Paso 130a

Alpine 650a

Sanderson 841a

Del Rio 1107a

Ar. San Antonio 255p

Dp. San Antonio 320p

Ar. Houston 805p

Dp. Houston 830p

Beaumont 1025p

Lake Charles 1149p

Lafayette 135a

New Iberia 201a

Schreiver 323a

Ar. New Orleans 615a
 
The thought of killing the Sunset is ridiculous. If that was the case, Amtrak would not offer any service to one of the largest market's in the U.S: Houston. Other key cities which would lose all Amtrak service include El Paso (not a small city), Tucson, and the Phoenix area...not to mention Palm Springs, which seems like it could be a popular market for Amtrak if marketed. Also, killing the Sunset would kill the connections to the Crescent...which, while currently involving an overnight stay in NOL, is bookable on Amtrak.com...and is one which people actually make. Of course, that overnight connection problem could be solved if Amtrak considered a schedule for 1/2 like the one listed below. It would depend on if UP would agree with it, of course. All it would require would be for #20 to depart NOL at 8:00am instead of 7:10am (which would not really adversly affect ANY market on its route to a high degree, including ATL), and #19 would probably have to operate maybe 10-15 minutes earlier just to be safe. I just wonder sometimes if Amtrak even considers things like this or if they are just happy with the status quo?
Well you've got to remember that it's not just Amtrak that has to be happy with a new schedule. UP also has to be happy with it.

And one other thing that could also help and should be considered, that being the current double tracking of the Sunset route by UP. Once completed, it might actually be possible to get back some of the 9+ hours of padding that Amtrak has given to UP over the last 7 years.
 
We also need to remember that the (intact) Sunset IS (was) the Southern Transcontinental Route for the U.S.A., which Katrina broke and CSX FIXED but Amtrak has so far refused to resume, holding the balance of the route hostage to try to extort a ransom from LA/MS/AL/FL in order to restart it. The LAST thing we need to consider is permanently discarding the southern transcon route; We need, rather, to do whatever it takes to restore it, even if that means starting a new service JAX-NOL.

The primary reason, I think, for the continued "suspension" language Amtrak continues to use, even though their Corporate nose is now substantially longer than the route, is that if they cancel it officially, they can't use it later if they decide to. Since they haven't officially "cancelled" service NOL-JAX, they still have the right to resume service on that rail path. So the fact that you may be sick and tired of hearing Amtrak claim that the service on that path is simply temporarily suspended may be true, but it sure beats losing the right to resume service on that path in the future. And a (hopefully) daily NOL-JAX, even with older, less comfortable cars, would be WAY better than nothing, IMHO. It would at least provide a resumption of the southern transcon route, and connect LAX, and all the stations east to NOL, and south from Chicago, with a connection to Florida via the Silver Service trains, at JAX.

If, as it appears, Sunset east of NOL is dead, we still need to effect a replacement for that part of the Sunset, to restore the southern transcon. What Amtrak doesn't seem to care about, or realize, or simply refuses to acknowledge, with or without actual or tacit goading from the administration, is that IT is supposed to be a NATIONAL rail system. And that -NATIONAL SYSTEM- MUST include the southern transcon route. That's Amtrak's responsibility, as the NATIONAL passenger rail SYSTEM, not the responsibility of the states along the route. If a state wants to begin an intrastate corridor, fine, require them to fund it to the extent that it doesn't cost Amtrak anything from it's national coffers. But the NATIONAL passenger rail SYSTEM is Amtrak's responsibility, not the states. And that MUST include the southern transcon.
 
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