Superliner III

[Green Maned Lion]

Good heavens, no. Why would we torture handicapped passengers with the drunken idiots that seem to populate SSLs at night?

 

[DET63]

Then it seems that handicapped passengers are still going to suffer a certain amount of discrimination: paying the big bucks for the H room, but not getting access to the PPC on the CS, or any other part of the train that mobility issues prevent them from using, even while fellow first-class passengers do get to use them.

 

[sunchaser]

To modify the Superliner Sleepers to handle a standard wheelchair, the hallways upstairs should be a minimum of 30 inches wide.

Neither hallway is even close to that width. The car width is 9 feet, the bedrooms are 7' 6" in width, which means the hallway there is 18" wide.

The roomettes are 3'6" in width, so the hallway is 24" wide.

I'm guessing the width of the stairs is close to 18"-20" wide.

 

[sueb]

My original idea for a wheelchar lift included an option to have an external lift at selected stations so handicapped pax could move to/from an H room to the SSL and/or the diner at those stops by going along the platform. This would be possible at stations where the train is there for a crew change or equipment service. The pax might have to reserve for the move to assure adequate staff, but it would be better than nothing. Planes use lifts likt this to load handicapped pax at airports that don't have jetways (like Bermuda).

Re the narrow halls on upper levels. Some wheelchair users can use a "hall chair" which is a limited use narrower type of wheelchair. I know these fit the aisles on most airliners, so they are pretty narrow. With a combination of an external lift with a "port" on the side of the train and a hall chair, Amtrak could accomodate a population who don't have as many travel options as the average person.

 

[sunchaser]

My original idea for a wheelchar lift included an option to have an external lift at selected stations so handicapped pax could move to/from an H room to the SSL and/or the diner at those stops by going along the platform. This would be possible at stations where the train is there for a crew change or equipment service. The pax might have to reserve for the move to assure adequate staff, but it would be better than nothing. Planes use lifts likt this to load handicapped pax at airports that don't have jetways (like Bermuda). Re the narrow halls on upper levels. Some wheelchair users can use a "hall chair" which is a limited use narrower type of wheelchair. I know these fit the aisles on most airliners, so they are pretty narrow. With a combination of an external lift with a "port" on the side of the train and a hall chair, Amtrak could accomodate a population who don't have as many travel options as the average person.

Do you mean then, that they would add a door on the side to the second floor of the SSL or Diner?

I think they would have to put a door on both sides, then, unless they always set the train so that the door would face the platform. I don't know if that would work.

I think the issue would be being able to exit those cars in an emergency.

I think a better choice would be a lift in the car, but it should have a secondary source of power in case of a power loss.

At this point, even though there is limited access, at least it is safer for someone in a wheelchair.

 

[Ryan]

I think the issue would be being able to exit those cars in an emergency.

That's a really good point that I hadn't thought of - the lift would have to be a part of the car, which I doubt will be able to be fit in there.

 

[karl]

My 2 c.

As to how many of what type car I think leave that to Amtrak. They are probably have better information as to what space will be better utilized and show a better return.

Modular design is the most prudent, changes in layout can accomodate changes in service needs.

New cars.

One, a First Class Coach. 2-1 seating with extra wide full horizontal reclining seating. This would accomodate day passengers and economy minded overnighters. Pricing could be based on the "hotel" charges for a full sleeper equaling a full first class coach. Showers available!

Two, a lounge/buffet. The times I have been on the CS during the summer one (3 sleeper + 5 coach) all coach passengers were lucky to get a meal in the diner. If extra cars are available and the train goes to 4+6 extra food service would be needed, and buffet service should be cost effective.

Three, though this is not new, have enough coach/baggage available that on board crew can check baggage on the train at unattended stations.

Comments on improvements. If a handicap lift is installed provisions for manual (hand crank or hand hydraulic pump) operation for emergency use. No big deal just time consuming and sweat producing. Propane or diesel gensets on cars could be a better choice for emergency power than batteries (less expensive, lighter). If extra cars do increase train length then a cabbage/HEP genset may make sense, especially if the traction motors are retained for dynamic braking on downgrades.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

My original idea for a wheelchar lift included an option to have an external lift at selected stations so handicapped pax could move to/from an H room to the SSL and/or the diner at those stops by going along the platform. This would be possible at stations where the train is there for a crew change or equipment service. The pax might have to reserve for the move to assure adequate staff, but it would be better than nothing. Planes use lifts likt this to load handicapped pax at airports that don't have jetways (like Bermuda). Re the narrow halls on upper levels. Some wheelchair users can use a "hall chair" which is a limited use narrower type of wheelchair. I know these fit the aisles on most airliners, so they are pretty narrow. With a combination of an external lift with a "port" on the side of the train and a hall chair, Amtrak could accomodate a population who don't have as many travel options as the average person.

The external door wouldn't work, I don't think. I think they'd never get it past safety standards. But in the Sightseer, where space isn't truly at the premium it is elsewhere, a lift might be possible. They could be wheeled at even a normal service stop to the car, board it, and use the internal lift to get up once the train is in motion.

As for emergancies, pfui. In an emergancy, a handicapped person could simply be carried. Under normal circumstances, that would be less than ideal (to put it lightly!) but in an emergency...

 

[AlanB]

As for emergancies, pfui. In an emergancy, a handicapped person could simply be carried. Under normal circumstances, that would be less than ideal (to put it lightly!) but in an emergency...

Agreed.

Before the Towers fell on 9/11, a least a few people confined to wheelchairs were carried down the stairs and to safety. Their chairs didn't survive, but I don't think that any who were saved are complaining too much about that. Especially under those tragic circumstances were so many others, most able bodied, didn't make it.

 

[sueb]

As for emergancies, pfui. In an emergancy, a handicapped person could simply be carried. Under normal circumstances, that would be less than ideal (to put it lightly!) but in an emergency...

Agreed.

Before the Towers fell on 9/11, a least a few people confined to wheelchairs were carried down the stairs and to safety. Their chairs didn't survive, but I don't think that any who were saved are complaining too much about that. Especially under those tragic circumstances were so many others, most able bodied, didn't make it.

For emergencies trains could do what planes do - have a fold-up ramp made of cloth or rubber or something. You sit or lie on it and slide to the ground. That's how everyone gets off over the wing of a plane, not just people with handicaps.

I agree a port for an external lift would need to be on both sides. I had not thought of that. However, I still think it could be secure. Again, they do this on planes. If a loading port can be secure thousands of feet in the air, I think it can be designed for 120 mph on the ground. But if GML thinks a lift could fit in the SSL internally, that would be great, too. But again, it would have to be accessible from both sides of the train if you planned to wheel pax to/from it along the platform at a station.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

For emergencies trains could do what planes do - have a fold-up ramp made of cloth or rubber or something. You sit or lie on it and slide to the ground. That's how everyone gets off over the wing of a plane, not just people with handicaps. I agree a port for an external lift would need to be on both sides. I had not thought of that. However, I still think it could be secure. Again, they do this on planes. If a loading port can be secure thousands of feet in the air, I think it can be designed for 120 mph on the ground. But if GML thinks a lift could fit in the SSL internally, that would be great, too. But again, it would have to be accessible from both sides of the train if you planned to wheel pax to/from it along the platform at a station.

I can't imagine how that ramp would work on a train, but you might have something there.

Security has nothing to do with the safety issue I was referring to, though, Sue. It has to do with the structural integrity of the car. You are putting a pair of large openings in the upper area of the car. What that would do in a collision is possibly create a point of serious structural weakness. The car could conceivably accordian around that point. The doors in Superliners are located where they are partially because of a keystone effect provided by the rest of the cars structure.

 

[sunchaser]

GML,

Does the SSL have a set of doors downstairs? When I went down there on the Zephyr, I went straight into the snack bar area & didn't look at the other end. That's the only time I've gone into the SSL, except to walk through. If there are doors, maybe a lift could be installed there.

 

[DET63]

GML, Does the SSL have a set of doors downstairs?

Sure looks like it.

Yes, I know I'm not GML.

 

[sunchaser]

No prob., I just figured he was paying attention to the thread.

It looks like they could put a lift inside the SSL then! That would be cool.

Not that I need it, I just would hate to have someone stuck upstairs (or anywhere) in an emergency!

 

[sueb]

For emergencies trains could do what planes do - have a fold-up ramp made of cloth or rubber or something. You sit or lie on it and slide to the ground. That's how everyone gets off over the wing of a plane, not just people with handicaps. I agree a port for an external lift would need to be on both sides. I had not thought of that. However, I still think it could be secure. Again, they do this on planes. If a loading port can be secure thousands of feet in the air, I think it can be designed for 120 mph on the ground. But if GML thinks a lift could fit in the SSL internally, that would be great, too. But again, it would have to be accessible from both sides of the train if you planned to wheel pax to/from it along the platform at a station.

I can't imagine how that ramp would work on a train, but you might have something there.

Security has nothing to do with the safety issue I was referring to, though, Sue. It has to do with the structural integrity of the car. You are putting a pair of large openings in the upper area of the car. What that would do in a collision is possibly create a point of serious structural weakness. The car could conceivably accordian around that point. The doors in Superliners are located where they are partially because of a keystone effect provided by the rest of the cars structure.

The airline escape ramps are inflatable, like life-rafts sort of. They ask people to remove shoes, especially high heels, before using them on the safety instruction cards. The ramps is rolled up in a spot under an emergency escape (push-out) window. When needed it is deployed out the window and people slide to the ground and walk away. Obviously a handicapped person might need help getting on the ramp or walking away at the bottom, but it would be an improvement over havng to be carried.