Superliner Refresh? Capitol Limited Suggestions, etc.

[cpotisch]

Just seeing the Superliners refreshed would do wonders for moral on the west coast trains (and the forum). We’re still waiting...

It's on the agenda for this fiscal year.

For all Superliners or just the cars that have yet to be refurbished (or you can’t say)?

 

[jis]

Hopefully they’ll start with the IIs which have never been refurbished, and then move onto the Is.

 

[Pere Flyer]

On Heartland Flyer No. 822 today, I noticed ribbed plastic paneling on the interior of the Superliner coach that I was seated in. (I strongly prefer it to the shoddy tan carpet material in most other SL’ers. I’m sure maintenance/OBS prefers it, too, since it’s easier to clean.) When was that replacement done? Is it the fabled Superliner II refresh I’ve heard about but never seen before?/monthly_2018_11/IMG_2795.thumb.JPG.c29dcbd89fcc8f2b195fdbeea539c0a2.JPG/monthly_2018_11/IMG_2796.thumb.JPG.a188a35777e718cd0cb2277a0f87b4ab.JPG

 

[frequentflyer]

There was post here stating that Amtrak management has decided long term all cars including LD equipment will be single level.

Of course Amtrak needs funding for new equipment for this to happen but I gotta think from a fiscal reason, not passenger one, brand new Siemen cars with maintenance included is cheaper than refurbishing 20-40 year old Superliners with out of production parts that need to be fabricated.

A Siemens Viaggaro equiped California Zephyr will not offer the same experience as a Superliner but it "should" be cheaper to operate. Not saying I am looking forward to this but I can see this being the future.

 

[PVD]

A cosmetic refresh such as that which was done on the AM-1 cars can make an enormous difference in a customers's perception without undertaking a true refurb which would include much more mechanical work. Not a substitute if the cars are going to be around an extended period of time, but needed regardless.

 

[Anthony V]

There was post here stating that Amtrak management has decided long term all cars including LD equipment will be single level.

Of course Amtrak needs funding for new equipment for this to happen but I gotta think from a fiscal reason, not passenger one, brand new Siemen cars with maintenance included is cheaper than refurbishing 20-40 year old Superliners with out of production parts that need to be fabricated.

A Siemens Viaggaro equiped California Zephyr will not offer the same experience as a Superliner but it "should" be cheaper to operate. Not saying I am looking forward to this but I can see this being the future.

If they're going to go single level, they need to include dome (both regular and full versions) and observation cars in the order, as well as slumbercoaches!

 

[railiner]

If they're going to go single level, they need to include dome (both regular and full versions) and observation cars in the order, as well as slumbercoaches!

Maybe some domes cars low enough to get thru the Eastern tunnels?   That would be nice....

 

[cpotisch]

If they're going to go single level, they need to include dome (both regular and full versions) and observation cars in the order, as well as slumbercoaches!

Observation cars maybe, but I really doubt Amtrak would be willing to bring back slumbercoaches and full dome cars in a new single-level order. I think we’ll be lucky to keep the status quo, let alone get back all the amenities, services, and accommodations that were offered 50 years ago.

 

[frequentflyer]

If they're going to go single level, they need to include dome (both regular and full versions) and observation cars in the order, as well as slumbercoaches!

With diners seemingly going away, the next gen LD equipment ( cough.....Siemens.....cough) will at most have a car with windows going up to the ceiling (ala Superliner lounge car) and would be a food/lounge car or whatever name marketing professionals will come up. That is how I see it.

 

[MikeM]

I would be happy if they did a single level observation car with more single / double swivel seating like the upper level of the superliner observation cars, with fewer tables and oversized windows.  A dome would be a dream, but I don't see current management wanting to sink the engineering expense into developing these as a specialty car, so we probably should be realistic in our expectations.  What I would love to see, though, is more of a self serve "convenience store" marketplace that would have more depth in stocking food and snacks, along with some other merchandise like blankets, pillows, etc.  Big problem is that with a single level, that eats into passenger seating.  

 

[ehbowen]

"Self serve" on a train = shoplifter's paradise.

That said, I agree that the current Amlounge configuration which puts the serving area in the center of the car is far from optimum. If I were doing a lounge redesign I'd put the cafe area at one end of the car, with a bigger stock storage space behind it, a few booths with tables immediately adjoining, and the far end of the car with swivel chairs and small tables set up to facilitate observation and conversation.

 

[railiner]

Those single level 'dome' cars on VIA and ARR would work nicely for that....

 

[frequentflyer]

Don't know if allowed to post link, but on Trainsorder, someone is stating -

"What I’ve been told is that there is a coming order for a new Viaggio USA Bilevel LD car with the new weight/crash reqs being changed. The design has probably already been sent to Amtrak and so far there’s a lot of enthusiasm. The new design is supposed to be a complete replacement for the Superliner series, capable of 100MPH but *not* designed for push-pull service. This is why they aren’t being used for the Capital corridor service which is more time pressing. "

The poster is Zorz. Take it for what its worth.

 

[frequentflyer]

To add, the poster has stated it may be the Siemens Twin bilevel car to replace the Supers. The Siemens Twin is 14.7 ft above the rails tall.

 

[dgvrengineer]

Regardless which is chosen (Siemens or Viaggio) I'll bet there won't be dinning cars.  Probably only diner/lounge type configuration. 

 

[jis]

Regardless which is chosen (Siemens or Viaggio) I'll bet there won't be dinning cars.  Probably only diner/lounge type configuration. 

Viaggio is a Siemens brand. The Twins being talked about is the ViaggioTwin which looks like this (from Siemens Marketing material):

To add, the poster has stated it may be the Siemens Twin bilevel car to replace the Supers. The Siemens Twin is 14.7 ft above the rails tall.

It would be quite a miracle if they are able to fit double berth Roomettes and Bedrooms in the upper deck of a Viaggio Twin. A single berth Roomettes would fit nicely, as would airline style First Class Pods

Of course if Amtrak were to give Siemens a specification of whatever I am sure they could fabricate such a thing and setup a production line to manufacture a few hundred of those. But if it turns out to be too Amtrak specific with no possibility of other major orders from across the world, it will just become a turnkey project and will cost an arm and a leg.

The beauty of the single level Viaggio cars and the SC-44s is that they are part of an off the shelf design usage with minor modifications, and their major development cost is amortized among thousands of units, with only the slight tweak costs specifically borne by Amtrak or other customers

 

[frequentflyer]

Maybe a modern slumbercoach like room for the tight upper level.

 

[MikeM]

OK, I just have to say it.. That car is plain ugly compared to other Amtrak rolling stock, with possible exception of horizon coaches.  Let's hope some thought goes into esthetics as well as cost... 

 

[neroden]

There was post here stating that Amtrak management has decided long term all cars including LD equipment will be single level.

While I sort of approve of this idea, it requires raising the platforms at every station which has low level platforms, except those with bilevel commuter lines or freight, and the paperwork even for the stations with freight would be substantial.  Under current law, they'd have to have a plan and funding to raise all the platforms on a given line before acquiring single-level cars for it.

I think it makes no sense in the short term.  They don't have the budget.  Converting the Capitol Limited to single-level does make sense, given that it shares almost all of its territory with single-level trains which ought to have high platforms.

Don't know if allowed to post link, but on Trainsorder, someone is stating -

"What I’ve been told is that there is a coming order for a new Viaggio USA Bilevel LD car with the new weight/crash reqs being changed. The design has probably already been sent to Amtrak and so far there’s a lot of enthusiasm. The new design is supposed to be a complete replacement for the Superliner series, capable of 100MPH but *not* designed for push-pull service. This is why they aren’t being used for the Capital corridor service which is more time pressing. "

The poster is Zorz. Take it for what its worth.

The push-pull comment makes no sense.  The alterations necessary for push-pull service are minimal (pass through the correct electronic data line) and I think Amtrak would just request it as a required alteration period.

Whether the entry is at the right height and whether they meet ADA requirements are substantial questions.  They also look short.

 

[cpotisch]

OK, I just have to say it.. That car is plain ugly compared to other Amtrak rolling stock, with possible exception of horizon coaches.  Let's hope some thought goes into esthetics as well as cost... 

This!!!!!!!!!!!! It looks like a poorly put-together toy. :unsure:

 

[Pere Flyer]

I suspect the color scheme in the promotional materials is intended to show the most contrast between exterior components. If acquired by Amtrak, the cars would have an Amtrak-style livery designed for aesthetics rather than showcasing the doors, body, roof, etc.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

I hear you and agree with all of that *except* for the AT. That train typically consists of 18 or so Superliners, in addition to 30+ auto racks. Even if there were enough single-level cars to outfit the Auto Train, each consist would be way too long to handle, AND Amtrak would be stuck with a bunch of oddball custom AT Superliners. There are six Deluxe Sleepers (all bedrooms on the upper-level), four Auto Train lounges (former dining cars with special booths and tables on the upper and lower levels), and one special SSL with nothing but tables on the upper-level. That last one is configured that way so that they can serve extra passengers if there are too many people for the *three* dining cars.

TLDR: Auto Train is insane and it would be difficult to change up the equipment.

Correct. There is no way they could change from Superliner cars on the Auto Train. The pax would revolt!   The Auto Train is the only other line of Amtrak's that is actually profitable, other than the Acela/NEC service. That and, as I believe you stated earlier, AT Superliner cars have different braking systems due to the length and weight of the train. 

 

[frequentflyer]

Correct. There is no way they could change from Superliner cars on the Auto Train. The pax would revolt!   The Auto Train is the only other line of Amtrak's that is actually profitable, other than the Acela/NEC service. That and, as I believe you stated earlier, AT Superliner cars have different braking systems due to the length and weight of the train. 

Yes there is, if going to these cars lowers mx costs and, nets better fuel efficiency one better believe Amtrak will make the swap . It will make Autotrain's "profit" more so.

 

[cpotisch]

I suspect the color scheme in the promotional materials is intended to show the most contrast between exterior components. If acquired by Amtrak, the cars would have an Amtrak-style livery designed for aesthetics rather than showcasing the doors, body, roof, etc.

The livery in that photo isn’t the main issue for me; it’s the car itself. Just looks...ungainly.

 

[cpotisch]

That and, as I believe you stated earlier, AT Superliner cars have different braking systems due to the length and weight of the train. 

I don’t think I stated that earlier, but someone else can jump in and confirm or deny if it’s accurate.