Three Rivers to lose sleepers

[Joe]

Been playing around with Amtrak's online reservation system again. Did Dec. 7 to Dec. 14 roundtrip. Chicago to NYP on the Three Rivers. The three rivers is keeping the same schedule as it is now except it lost all it's bedrooms. Best upgrade is a business class seat.

This train leaves Chicago at 10:00 P.M. at night. With no overnite accomadations.

Joe P.

 

[Guest]

This is ridiculous. I'll never ride that train again without sleepers available.

 

[AlanB]

The reason that there are no sleepers is due to the fact that the train isn't the 3 Rivers after October. The train that your seeing is technically the Pennsylvanian running on the 3 R's schedule, which for 6 months is being extended to Chicago. The reason for the extension is this allows Amtrak to maintain service until the 180 day notification period is up.

Once that happens, the Pennsy will return to a NY - Pittsburgh train only. Unless of course it suddenly, somehow, and by some miracle achives huge ridership numbers between Pit & Chi.

That combo 3R's/Pennsylvanian will be the only train running between Harrisburg and Pittsburgh.

 

[Steve4031]

Glad I rode that train in the summer on the way to railfest. Pittsburg is receiving a major service down grade. Where will the extra sleepers be deployed?

 

[Viewliner]

Guys, the whole idea is the train will be cut back to Pittsburgh to "enhance service" (i.e. ease the stress on the Viewliner fleet/enable sleepers to be added to Silver Star rerouted via TPA while still serving ORL and MIA, and possibly on the now former Federal). Its unfortunate, hopefully in due time the NYP-PHL-PGH-CHI route will regain a sleeper if/when new Viewliner (II)'s arrive, maybe when that happens we can even return to the Broadway Limited glory days.

 

[Amfleet]

Losing a sleeper on a particular train does not create a loss in revenue for Amtrak or ridership. If that sleeper can be added to, lets say, the Silver Star and make more revenue year round than on the Three Rivers than it is much better in that place. Remember, 75% of the passengers on a LD train are riding in coach anyway so it is no big loss to a route like the Three Rviers that only carries on sleeper anyway.

 

[railman]

Last I heard, the sleepers being displaced from the Three Rivers are going to the NYP-CHI section of the Lake Shore Limited. There will be no sleeper to/from Boston as train 448-449 will revert to the stub train operation between BOS-ALB and back. This time, however 448-449 is supposed to have Business class in addition to the reserved coaches....

 

[AlanB]

Losing a sleeper on a particular train does not create a loss in revenue for Amtrak or ridership. If that sleeper can be added to, lets say, the Silver Star and make more revenue year round than on the Three Rivers than it is much better in that place. Remember, 75% of the passengers on a LD train are riding in coach anyway so it is no big loss to a route like the Three Rviers that only carries on sleeper anyway.

While I can't speak to the coach side of the 3R's, I have on many occasions looked at trips to Chicago where I wanted a sleeper. More times than not, the sleeper on the 3R's was either sold out or down to it's last bedroom.

Maybe Amtrak numbers prove differently, but my personal observations over the last 3 years, indicate that the 3R's sleeper sold out or came very close on many occasions.

So bottom line, I rather doubt that Amtrak will gain anymore revenue by putting said sleeper on either the LSL or the Star. Yes costs on those trains may be better for Amtrak, but revenue wise there will be no gain. In fact, 90% of the time that I was pricing sleepers to CHI from NYP or return, Amtrak wanted more money from me to ride the 3R's than the LSL. Third in line for price after that, was the Capitol with transfer to a regional. That required two trains, yet Amtrak always made less money from me for the Cap.

 

[AlanB]

There will be no sleeper to/from Boston as train 448-449 will revert to the stub train operation between BOS-ALB and back. This time, however 448-449 is supposed to have Business class in addition to the reserved coaches....

Boy, I sure hope that they're not eliminating that sleeper from Boston. Again, this is a sleeper that in my experience sees some rather heavy ridership.

On the other hand, having a business class (assuming that it's similar to the Palmetto's), for the LSL would be a good idea. Amtrak really should have some sort of mid-level service.

A service that provides for roomier, better, 2 & 1 seating with extra ammenities like blankets and perhaps free meals in the lounge.

 

[Trogdor]

There will be no sleeper to/from Boston as train 448-449 will revert to the stub train operation between BOS-ALB and back.  This time, however 448-449 is supposed to have Business class in addition to the reserved coaches....

Boy, I sure hope that they're not eliminating that sleeper from Boston. Again, this is a sleeper that in my experience sees some rather heavy ridership.

Then you'd better not look at amtrak.com and search for CHI-BOS after November 1. You'll be disappointed.

 

[Amfleet]

I think 448/449 is becoming a stub train again as one can no longer book a through seat between Boston and Chicago. IMHO, this is a bad move! :angry:

 

[engine999]

You should be able to booka first class seat to boston, but have it inclyude business class for the albany to boston segment.

 

[Save Our Trains Michigan]

We need to Save the 3 Rivers go to NARP web site and see how you can help save this train before it's to late.It's under action alert

http://www.narprail.org/

 

[railman]

A sold-out sleeper on a given train does not preclude the notion that that same car could earn greter revenue on a different train. While the sleeper operated on the Three Rivers may heve been sold out most of the time the net revenue from that car may not be all that great, given the comaratively low revenue-per-mile potential of the route.

On the Lake Shore or the Silver Service, where sleeper demand is much greater, Amtrak can charge a higher tariff for the same rooms and thus earn greater revenue-per-mile from the car.

This tried and true revenue philosophy is what prevents the sleeper from returning to the overnight BOS-WAS train and instead running on some true LDT train with higher tariff potential.

Revenue management is not limited to selling out the car. It focuses more on maximizing every dollar that can be rung out of that same finite space.

 

[AlanB]

A sold-out sleeper on a given train does not preclude the notion that that same car could earn greter revenue on a different train.  While the sleeper operated on the Three Rivers may heve been sold out most of the time the net revenue from that car may not be all that great, given the comaratively low revenue-per-mile potential of the route.
On the Lake Shore or the Silver Service, where sleeper demand is much greater, Amtrak can charge a higher tariff for the same rooms and thus earn greater revenue-per-mile from the car.

This tried and true revenue philosophy is what prevents the sleeper from returning to the overnight BOS-WAS train and instead running on some true LDT train with higher tariff potential.

Revenue management is not limited to selling out the car.  It focuses more on maximizing every dollar that can be rung out of that same finite space.

That makes perfect sense to me and I would not ordinarily object to that logic. Mind you it doesn't make me happy that Amtrak would have to resort to that type of logic.

However, as I stated above, I frequently priced trips from NY to Chicago. Some trips I actually took, while others were just hopeful possibilities in my mind.

In almost all cases, I'd say 95% of the time, the accommodation charge for a sleeper on the 3R's was always higher than the charge for the Lake Shore. Therefore the revenue earned from a car on the 3R's is typically higher than the LSL.

Now maybe when one considers the cost of running the whole train, it might dilute that revenue. But that does not change the fact that every time I investigated a trip, much less took one; Amtrak would have made more money off of me on the 3R's than the LSL.

 

[battalion51]

The sleepers are coming down here guys. I've heard there will be a minimum of three sleepers on the Star, plus 5 coaches. They are talking about adding a fourth sleeper to the Star, but it would require another Dining Car. I've also heard that there will be a Conductor and two AC's on this train. Sounds like the Super Train all over again. :lol:

 

[engine999]

Wow, and I thought that was a temporary fenomena.

 

[capltd29]

I actually had a bedroom on the 3Rs on Nov. 25, but I am a sissy and didn't want coach so I am no on the Cap, which is 30% cheaper anyway.