Time to sell Amtrak to FedEx and UPS?

[Cumbres]

I subscribe to Gil Carmichael Reports. A link to his latest report is pasted below; he puts forth a very interesting idea. I respect Mr. Carmichael's opinions, but I must admit I don't see this working without a significant government subsidy for the buyer.

Why would either FedEx or UPS agree to take on passenger rail service when they can just cut their own deal with the existing freight lines? Further, how much free reign would the freight railroads, Congress, and state governments give to these companies as the restructure passenger schedules and routes to better suit their express package needs?

If this works as a profitable venture it would set up passenger rail as virtually the only form of US public transportation operating without some form of taxpayer subsidy. Is that conceivable?

Gil Carmicheal Reports

 

[kentuckian1977]

I subscribe to Gil Carmichael Reports. A link to his latest report is pasted below; he puts forth a very interesting idea. I respect Mr. Carmichael's opinions, but I must admit I don't see this working without a significant government subsidy for the buyer.

Why would either FedEx or UPS agree to take on passenger rail service when they can just cut their own deal with the existing freight lines? Further, how much free reign would the freight railroads, Congress, and state governments give to these companies as the restructure passenger schedules and routes to better suit their express package needs?

If this works as a profitable venture it would set up passenger rail as virtually the only form of US public transportation operating without some form of taxpayer subsidy. Is that conceivable?

Gil Carmicheal Reports

The most sure way to eliminate rail travel outside of the Northeast Corridor in this country is to try to privatize Amtrak. Period.

 

[SP&S]

Preposterous! No offense to the OP - I don't wish to shoot the messenger.

Amtrak already tried carrying freight, it didn't work, delaying schedules, irritating passengers, and angering the host railroads. Mr Carmichael appears to have a history of wanting to break up, sell off, and/or franchise out parts of Amtrak. I fear that a self described "Southern republican" does not have Amtrak's best interests at heart. Not to start political bickering, but republicans have not been kind to Amtrak (and sometimes the dems have not been much better).

 

[PerRock]

I don't think the Freight Railways who own the tracks Amtrak runs on would be to happy with UPEx running their own freight trains on them. Hell NS won't even let a group of 20+ people take their tandem bikes along between Chicago & Ann Arbor for that very reason.

peter

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I subscribe to Gil Carmichael Reports.

I would unsubscribe. Well, unless you simply read his stuff for a good laugh. :giggle:

 

[MikefromCrete]

I don't think the freight railroads would be happy with losing all that high profit UPS business. Besides, scheduling for freight/express shipments is usually at odds with scheduling for passenger convenience. Remember the Lake Country Limited!

 

[afigg]

Among the many problems with this idea is that FedEx and UPS are neither railroad or passenger transportation companies. FedEx would probably want to put each passenger in a box and ship overnight them via Memphis. Large corporations develop a corporate culture for the type of business they run and often fail spectacularly when they take over a business or company that is totally outside of their business model.

He is correct about the reduction in commercial air flights to many smaller cities and rural areas. That is a trend that will continue and spread as long the world price for oil stays above $100 a barrel. That is why I expect to eventually see growing support for the restoration of passenger rail to many smaller cities that are more than 100 miles away from the largest 40-60 metropolitan area in population in the US. Getting the political support for that concept will be an effort taking years and years in the states and regions that currently don't have passenger rail service. But looking to FedEx or UPS to provide passenger rail service makes no sense.

 

[bobnabq]

I looked Gil Carmichael up online and he's one of those GOP 'opinion guys'.

A quote from the article:

 

"....by double- or triple-tracking at least 30,000-40,000 miles of the railroads’ main lines, with grade separations, we can create an ethical and fuel-efficient, rail-based,

transportation system that will transform our transportation landscape into a modern, shared intermodal system."

 

I suspect he's one of the same folks who wants to cut Social Security, Medicare, unfund Unemployment Insurance, oppose healthcare for the average American,

and do away with the tax cut working Americans currently receive ~ but lets spend bazillions on reinventing Amtrak?

 

[MikeM]

There's an interesting article in this month's Trains (the issue with a steam photographer cover story) discussing how companies could apply to take over train routes. However, only RAILROADS can apply, so it's up to third parties to negotiate with the railroad to be a partner with them.

So, to this thought process -

- UPS, Fedex are package companies. They could care less about passenger rail.

- Some companies are expressing some interest, but they will still require subsidies.

- Everyone is banking on using Amtrak equipment if they did run routes.

- The only interest is in California or Illinois routes, not the national routes where the losses are the most severe.

I think Gil needs to start taking his meds again.

 

[Guest]

FedEx doesn't even run their own trucks, the guys that delivers your packages are independent contractors. If they don't run their own trucks there is no way their are going to get into trains.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Would they barcode us and then track us on our trip ... letting our family & friends know when we arrived/departed each station? :giggle: (I love tracking my packages via their websites. )

 

[amamba]

FedEx doesn't even run their own trucks, the guys that delivers your packages are independent contractors. If they don't run their own trucks there is no way their are going to get into trains.

I just googled this and it is very interesting stuff as well. I can't believed FedEx has gotten away with classifying some of their drivers as ICs instead of employees.

 

[Texan Eagle]

Would they barcode us and then track us on our trip ... letting our family & friends know when we arrived/departed each station? :giggle: (I love tracking my packages via their websites. )

And would it also require someone to sign and receive us at the destination station, failing which we will be held up in a FedEx facility?

 

[NAVYBLUE]

I subscribe to Gil Carmichael Reports. A link to his latest report is pasted below; he puts forth a very interesting idea. I respect Mr. Carmichael's opinions, but I must admit I don't see this working without a significant government subsidy for the buyer.

Why would either FedEx or UPS agree to take on passenger rail service when they can just cut their own deal with the existing freight lines? Further, how much free reign would the freight railroads, Congress, and state governments give to these companies as the restructure passenger schedules and routes to better suit their express package needs?

If this works as a profitable venture it would set up passenger rail as virtually the only form of US public transportation operating without some form of taxpayer subsidy. Is that conceivable?

Gil Carmicheal Reports

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

I was a rail fan before most of you were born (I'm 64). I lived 300 feet form the PRR tracks and daily watched coal hauled to the steel mills near Pittsburgh. I and my friends knew a lot of the engineers personally as they would stop for lunch on a siding (before federal law stopped stops like that) at a marina/bar/restaurant that was near the tracks/river and the J&L coal yard. My great Uncle Uncle was an engineer for PRR and worked there over (30) years. So coal, steel and trains are in my blood.

As a dreaded conservative with a degree in Economics I follow the money trail. Both AMTRAK/airports receives subsidies. It averages out to about $35/passenger for AMTRAK and $42 for airlines which makes AMTRAK look good somewhat.. In 2010 AMTRAK'S revenue vs costs ran a 1.23 billion deficit.. Airports have brought down their subsidy fees ratio down from $62/passenger (15) years ago due to actions by the airports NOT the airlines. Rent a car at Phoenix Airport and if the the car is say a full size car, a week rental is about $163 weekly base rate PLUS $103 of facility/user/recovery/yada/yada/yada fees.

Hello, AMTRAK, do you see the light. If AMTRAK doesn't do anything to make themselves look deficit neutral, then when the regime change occurs in Jan 2013, AMTRAK is headed for big trouble. I will admit AMTRAK has fewer options to bridge the gap. I have an option. It's a bitter pill, but if YOU (the serious fans) don't swallow it, don't cry to me when they shut down everything except the profitable routes.

If you divide the 1.23 billion yearly deficit by the 28.7 million 2010 AMTRAK passengers, it comes to $42/passenger. Yes, Mike but the subsidy per passenger above is only $35. Correctamundo. $35 is what is GIVEN, $45 EXTRA is what is NEEDED to be deficit neutral.

Follow me on this. Leave commuter trains alone. You NEED $45 from LD passengers. Effective on "X" date, each LD passengers pays a $25 Security Fee (can you say TSA) and a $20 Passenger Facility Charge. These are (2) of the many fees added on to your airline ticket whether you know it or not.

Trust me kiddies, Congress is NOT going to cut Social Security, Medicare or military retiree pensions. That is a huge voting block. That are the (3) largest expenditures and with welfare, education and defense(hardware) adds up to 75%. Transportation is 5% and "other" spending is 9%. Guess where they are going to cut.

Personally I would not be upset if LD was terminated. I would be saddened though because I was going to try reconnect with those bygone years of my youth through rail travel since I am now retired and want to back east twice a year for summer and Christmas. I also want to avoid TSA "officers" who have consisting failed internal tests by the government ( darn it, I used the "g" word) at every major airport. Betcha that gives you all a warm and fuzzy doesn't it.

I am going to write a letter to Joe Boardman with this idea. Your option is up to you.

NAVYBLUE

 

[MikeM]

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

NAVYBLUE

Whatever. I don't recall anyone before you getting all excited with name calling. Bar code jokes aside, why would FedEx or UPS go into the passenger business? Charity? My day job is in finance, and I crunch numbers on projects every day. No rational CEO on planet Earth would want to enter passenger rail unless they were absolutely guaranteed big profits. So if Amtrak is break even at $X loss per passenger, then an outside business would charge $X plus overhead. My question is, why would any rational government pay overhead on something they can do cheaper?

I just love it when someone comes into my office and announces a third party service provider can drive instant costs. (and I'm in private sector). Typically, the way it goes, someone comes in and announces that they can cut labor costs by some whopping amount, double throughput, and generate a terrific product. Great, I say. Prove it. Then we get into contract negotiations. The contractor won't stand by quality terms, too risky. Surcharges for rush / non standard / new / old products. The lists go on. The new employees are lower quality, so we have to build in extras for attrition / firings. It's distant from our core operation, so there's extra inventory, redundant capital, and the like. By the time we're done, we're spending anywhere from 20 - 40% more to gain these "savings". Sure, private vendors will be drooling to run trains in California where returns are good, equipment is newer, and subsidies are predictable. Good luck outsourcing the Texas Eagle.

But back to your observation of surcharges on every passenger ticket. That's a wonderful idea, truly is. People who can choose to spend $50 on a passenger train vs. $75 on a bus, add $45 to their ticket, and do you think they stay on the train. Nope. They bail to the bus. Which, coincidently,is subsidized by the government by fuel taxes below the cost of highway maintenance, driver salaries which in many cases include inadequate benefits (ergo, the government and hospitals pick up health care costs), and which through the miracle of government regulations have far less stringent safety requirements than passenger trains. Or they could fly, which receives all sorts of hidden subsidies, from TSA spend and capital for airports, to direct subsidies in many smaller markets to maintain core air service, not to mention the environmental costs of greater pollution.

Which raises another interesting point. Do fixed costs ring a bell? No? Well, they're called fixed costs for a reason. If there's fewer passengers on the train, the costs don't drop. Still have to maintain the passenger cars, staff stations and repair bases, pay the light bills and the mortgages. Drive demand down through higher prices, unit costs go up. Costs the same to run a full coach as one with one passenger.

So sorry you feel persecuted by the mean ol' train fans. Perhaps in the future you can offer productive thoughts to us "kiddies".

 

[Exiled in Express]

UPS did passenger flights on their aircraft on slow package days, I recall hearing favorable opinions of that service from family that took it. Rail is a different ball of wax as the network is physical and controlled by a likely angered former vendor railroad.

Buffett via BNSF seems more likely and both are under 5%.

 

[NAVYBLUE]

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

NAVYBLUE

Whatever. I don't recall anyone before you getting all excited with name calling. Bar code jokes aside, why would FedEx or UPS go into the passenger business? Charity? My day job is in finance, and I crunch numbers on projects every day. No rational CEO on planet Earth would want to enter passenger rail unless they were absolutely guaranteed big profits. So if Amtrak is break even at $X loss per passenger, then an outside business would charge $X plus overhead. My question is, why would any rational government pay overhead on something they can do cheaper?

I just love it when someone comes into my office and announces a third party service provider can drive instant costs. (and I'm in private sector). Typically, the way it goes, someone comes in and announces that they can cut labor costs by some whopping amount, double throughput, and generate a terrific product. Great, I say. Prove it. Then we get into contract negotiations. The contractor won't stand by quality terms, too risky. Surcharges for rush / non standard / new / old products. The lists go on. The new employees are lower quality, so we have to build in extras for attrition / firings. It's distant from our core operation, so there's extra inventory, redundant capital, and the like. By the time we're done, we're spending anywhere from 20 - 40% more to gain these "savings". Sure, private vendors will be drooling to run trains in California where returns are good, equipment is newer, and subsidies are predictable. Good luck outsourcing the Texas Eagle.

But back to your observation of surcharges on every passenger ticket. That's a wonderful idea, truly is. People who can choose to spend $50 on a passenger train vs. $75 on a bus, add $45 to their ticket, and do you think they stay on the train. Nope. They bail to the bus. Which, coincidently,is subsidized by the government by fuel taxes below the cost of highway maintenance, driver salaries which in many cases include inadequate benefits (ergo, the government and hospitals pick up health care costs), and which through the miracle of government regulations have far less stringent safety requirements than passenger trains. Or they could fly, which receives all sorts of hidden subsidies, from TSA spend and capital for airports, to direct subsidies in many smaller markets to maintain core air service, not to mention the environmental costs of greater pollution.

Which raises another interesting point. Do fixed costs ring a bell? No? Well, they're called fixed costs for a reason. If there's fewer passengers on the train, the costs don't drop. Still have to maintain the passenger cars, staff stations and repair bases, pay the light bills and the mortgages. Drive demand down through higher prices, unit costs go up. Costs the same to run a full coach as one with one passenger.

So sorry you feel persecuted by the mean ol' train fans. Perhaps in the future you can offer productive thoughts to us "kiddies".

Welcome to the discussion. You're a little late to the rodeo cowboy.Go back and read EVERY post on the TSA and Texas Eagle shooting postings where it was implied I was a communist, to irrational to possess firearms/ammo, a gun fanatic, full of childish nonsense and a fanatical hardliner. I presented facts and as yet NO ONE has come up with unbiased facts to dispute mine, so when you are losing the argument start personal attacks.

Persecuted ? Nope. I am a retired NAVY Master Chief (E-9) of (28) years. What I went through for 60 days prior to my initiation to Chief Petty Officer (E7) and what I went through on the actual day of my initiation would make 99% of the people on this forum cry and wet their pants. I saw an E7 candidate one year later break down and cry. One year later he went from being a NAVY EOD diver to becoming a NAVY SEAL.

So, no, I don't feel persecuted. I reviewed all the postings prior to my coming on this forum for the prior (6) months and I see NO name calling. You see Mike M it appears I am one of the first to challenge a couple of people on AU who profess/think to be experts on virtually all subjects in addition to trains as I went back and reviewed a lot of their posts.

I emailed one with my bona fides and (4) others will be receiving my bona fides about why I feel competent to speak on Economics, weapons law and a person's mental status. I am NOT competent to speak about trains, art, biology, physics, chemistry, origami, glass blowing, horticulture, spaceflight and a thousand others. Now you are up to speed on the gun fanatic. Also if you would like I will email ALL my bona fides

Here goes:

I agree with 99.9% of what you said. My bona fides for economic/financial discussions:

B.S. Economics, minor industrial psychology, Excelsior College, Albany, N.Y.

V. P. Operations. Spectrum Inc(Group homes for troubled youth/mentally handicapped youth/adults) 1.2 million annual budget

Asst Manager, McDonalds

Sales Director, Pocmont Resort

I said:

Follow me on this. "Leave commuter trains alone. You NEED $45 from LD passengers. Effective on "X" date, each LD passengers pays a $25 Security Fee (can you say TSA) and a $20 Passenger Facility Charge. These are (2) of the many fees added on to your airline ticket whether you know it or not."

You said:

"But back to your observation of surcharges on every passenger ticket. That's a wonderful idea, truly is. People who can choose to spend $50 on a passenger train vs. $75 on a bus, add $45 to their ticket, and do you think they stay on the train. Nope. They bail to the bus."

Discussion:

I see your background is in finance not english so bear with me.

I said " LEAVE THE COMMUTERS ALONE" We need $45 from LD (LONG DISTANCE) passengers. Commuter riders might pay $50 BUT Long distance passengers don't pay $50 on a passenger train excursion. If they do I got screwed royally as I paid $1,935 for SWC/CARD/CL/SWC with a roomette on all (4) segments for two people.

99% of LD (Long Distance) passengers are not going to bail out on $45 Security fee/Passenger Facilty Fee as 99% of the airline passengers don't bail out because of the $60 baggage fees and $15-$25 excise tax/TSA fees.

Remember. We are talking about LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG DISTANCE train passengers.

Thanks for your input.

NAVYBLUE

 

[tonys96]

The surest way to make it where there is no more LD train system is to raise the fares with added "fees".

I do not fly much anymore (unless absolutely necessary) due to the extra "fees" added to ticket prices, and the perp walk through the TSA. So I take the "subsidized" Amtrak, or the other mode that is "subsidized", the interstate hiway system.

The poster who feels it necessary to tell us how very qualified he is to post, lost me at this statement "Personally I would not be upset if LD was terminated".......

Take that attitude with you when you get into your car going to the airport, feel free to pay your added fees, (which are taxes cloaked in obscurity) please, and leave those of us who wish to do whatever we can to raise awareness of the romance, joys, and relaxation of riding the rails, so we can keep this wonderful thing alive for our children and grandchildren, not to mention share this gift with other of our American brothers and sisters.

2011 was a record year for Amtrak, most of us members here wish for the growth to increase exponentially in 2012 and beyond. I am truly sorry that you have not accepted the gift that LD rail freely bestows upon it's riders.

Please feel free to refrain from any "name calling".....it is juvenile at best and disrespectful and uneeded at worst.

 

EDIT: corrected spelling of "juvenile"

 

[tonys96]

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

NAVYBLUE

Whatever. I don't recall anyone before you getting all excited with name calling. Bar code jokes aside, why would FedEx or UPS go into the passenger business? Charity? My day job is in finance, and I crunch numbers on projects every day. No rational CEO on planet Earth would want to enter passenger rail unless they were absolutely guaranteed big profits. So if Amtrak is break even at $X loss per passenger, then an outside business would charge $X plus overhead. My question is, why would any rational government pay overhead on something they can do cheaper?

I just love it when someone comes into my office and announces a third party service provider can drive instant costs. (and I'm in private sector). Typically, the way it goes, someone comes in and announces that they can cut labor costs by some whopping amount, double throughput, and generate a terrific product. Great, I say. Prove it. Then we get into contract negotiations. The contractor won't stand by quality terms, too risky. Surcharges for rush / non standard / new / old products. The lists go on. The new employees are lower quality, so we have to build in extras for attrition / firings. It's distant from our core operation, so there's extra inventory, redundant capital, and the like. By the time we're done, we're spending anywhere from 20 - 40% more to gain these "savings". Sure, private vendors will be drooling to run trains in California where returns are good, equipment is newer, and subsidies are predictable. Good luck outsourcing the Texas Eagle.

But back to your observation of surcharges on every passenger ticket. That's a wonderful idea, truly is. People who can choose to spend $50 on a passenger train vs. $75 on a bus, add $45 to their ticket, and do you think they stay on the train. Nope. They bail to the bus. Which, coincidently,is subsidized by the government by fuel taxes below the cost of highway maintenance, driver salaries which in many cases include inadequate benefits (ergo, the government and hospitals pick up health care costs), and which through the miracle of government regulations have far less stringent safety requirements than passenger trains. Or they could fly, which receives all sorts of hidden subsidies, from TSA spend and capital for airports, to direct subsidies in many smaller markets to maintain core air service, not to mention the environmental costs of greater pollution.

Which raises another interesting point. Do fixed costs ring a bell? No? Well, they're called fixed costs for a reason. If there's fewer passengers on the train, the costs don't drop. Still have to maintain the passenger cars, staff stations and repair bases, pay the light bills and the mortgages. Drive demand down through higher prices, unit costs go up. Costs the same to run a full coach as one with one passenger.

So sorry you feel persecuted by the mean ol' train fans. Perhaps in the future you can offer productive thoughts to us "kiddies".

What you said is true! Raise the price point above bus travel, and BOOM......bus travel spikes while rail suffers lower ridership. That would in turn cause routes to be cut, ridership again suffers, and eventually pax rail dies. That puts folks back into cars/buses that use more fuel per pax mile and cost more in subsidies, fuel and pollution. Yeah, that's the way to go.

I got a kick out of the logic you quoted from other poster.... "Airports have brought down their subsidy fees ratio down from $62/passenger (15) years ago due to actions by the airports NOT the airlines. Rent a car at Phoenix Airport and if the the car is say a full size car, a week rental is about $163 weekly base rate PLUS $103 of facility/user/recovery/yada/yada/yada fees."

Sure.....I agree with the prior poster!! Anytime a car is rented at an Amtrak station there should be a " facility/user/recovery/yada/yada/yada fee" added to the price. ABSOLUTELY. That will take care of all of Amtrak's woes.

You are quite welcome. :hi:

 

[PaulM]

I just love it when someone comes into my office and announces a third party service provider can drive instant costs. (and I'm in private sector). Typically, the way it goes, someone comes in and announces that they can cut labor costs by some whopping amount, double throughput, and generate a terrific product. Great, I say. Prove it. Then we get into contract negotiations. The contractor won't stand by quality terms, too risky. Surcharges for rush / non standard / new / old products. The lists go on. The new employees are lower quality, so we have to build in extras for attrition / firings. It's distant from our core operation, so there's extra inventory, redundant capital, and the like. By the time we're done, we're spending anywhere from 20 - 40% more to gain these "savings".

MikeM, you seem to be an exception to the first rule of bean counting which says: count the costs that are easy to count, e.g., labor & materials, and ignore the ones that are hard to count, like all the ones you mentioned.

 

[SP&S]

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

NAVYBLUE

I beg your pardon. Up till this point, this thread has not been very political. In fact my post #3 may have been the most political and I was not complimentary to either major party. Most of us who have posted have pointed out several good reasons why this classifies as, imho, a hare brained scheme. It's also been pointed out that Mr Carmichael is not necessarily Amtrak friendly.

You have your thoughts on what Amtrak should do. Great! Let us all discuss this, and other topics, in a calm and rational way, with give and take, respecting each other where NOBODY raises their voice. Disagreement does not necessarily indicate disrespect. This should be a fun and enjoyable place for rail fans - or fanatics.

Oh, and by the way, we're not all kiddies here. Some of us (self included) just act that way from time to time.

 

[AlanB]

Welcome to the discussion. You're a little late to the rodeo cowboy.Go back and read EVERY post on the TSA and Texas Eagle shooting postings where it was implied I was a communist, to irrational to possess firearms/ammo, a gun fanatic, full of childish nonsense and a fanatical hardliner. I presented facts and as yet NO ONE has come up with unbiased facts to dispute mine, so when you are losing the argument start personal attacks.

So, no, I don't feel persecuted. I reviewed all the postings prior to my coming on this forum for the prior (6) months and I see NO name calling. You see Mike M it appears I am one of the first to challenge a couple of people on AU who profess/think to be experts on virtually all subjects in addition to trains as I went back and reviewed a lot of their posts.

You didn't find too many posts in your search with name calling as they're generally removed, much like some posts in the Texas Eagle topic. If however you feel that there is still a post in that topic that you're unhappy with in regards to name calling, please feel free to contact me privately and we can discuss it. But I thought that I had cleaned things up reasonably well and without totally butchering the entire topic.

 

[NAVYBLUE]

Welcome to the discussion. You're a little late to the rodeo cowboy.Go back and read EVERY post on the TSA and Texas Eagle shooting postings where it was implied I was a communist, to irrational to possess firearms/ammo, a gun fanatic, full of childish nonsense and a fanatical hardliner. I presented facts and as yet NO ONE has come up with unbiased facts to dispute mine, so when you are losing the argument start personal attacks.

So, no, I don't feel persecuted. I reviewed all the postings prior to my coming on this forum for the prior (6) months and I see NO name calling. You see Mike M it appears I am one of the first to challenge a couple of people on AU who profess/think to be experts on virtually all subjects in addition to trains as I went back and reviewed a lot of their posts.

You didn't find too many posts in your search with name calling as they're generally removed, much like some posts in the Texas Eagle topic. If however you feel that there is still a post in that topic that you're unhappy with in regards to name calling, please feel free to contact me privately and we can discuss it. But I thought that I had cleaned things up reasonably well and without totally butchering the entire topic.

AlanB,

I don't have any problems. Leave everything as is. When you change stuff, then my new "friends" like MikeM miss out on all the good stuff. They come here and think " Why does NAVYBLUE have his panties in a bunch. did someone steal his breakfast." because everybody seems so nice here. Not to worry. I know what was said and have an excellent memory and can bring it back to life if need be. And no peeps, I don't feel persecuted. You folks are light weights compared to some of my political/2nd amendment sites I belong to. Thanks for caring though AlanB. I'm back off the ledge. Lighten up folks. It's a joke. Also AlanB, I want this out in the open. As Justice Brandeis said "Sometimes sunlight is the best disinfectant"

Anyways I am off on the SWC/CARD on 1/11 out of LAUS and 1/8 return on the CL/SWC and look forward to the thrills the people of AU have told me about ESPECIALLY the 5 Star crusine on the CARD (LOL)

Goodnight all,

NAVYBLUE

 

[NAVYBLUE]

The surest way to make it where there is no more LD train system is to raise the fares with added "fees".

I do not fly much anymore (unless absolutely necessary) due to the extra "fees" added to ticket prices, and the perp walk through the TSA. So I take the "subsidized" Amtrak, or the other mode that is "subsidized", the interstate hiway system.

The poster who feels it necessary to tell us how very qualified he is to post, lost me at this statement "Personally I would not be upset if LD was terminated".......

Take that attitude with you when you get into your car going to the airport, feel free to pay your added fees, (which are taxes cloaked in obscurity) please, and leave those of us who wish to do whatever we can to raise awareness of the romance, joys, and relaxation of riding the rails, so we can keep this wonderful thing alive for our children and grandchildren, not to mention share this gift with other of our American brothers and sisters.

2011 was a record year for Amtrak, most of us members here wish for the growth to increase exponentially in 2012 and beyond. I am truly sorry that you have not accepted the gift that LD rail freely bestows upon it's riders.

Please feel free to refrain from any "name calling".....it is juvenile at best and disrespectful and uneeded at worst.

 

EDIT: corrected spelling of "juvenile"

Welcome to the discussion.

I explained my bona fides since MikeM told us he how he was qualified to speak about ECONOMIC issues.

NAVYBLUE

 

[NAVYBLUE]

Man, don't ever bring up stuff like this again. These "fanatics" will have you hung from the nearest signal post. I guess there are all kinds of "fanatics". It depends on whose ox is being gored. Being as some have made "political" statements, I will make mine and I won't even use the dreaded "G" word. I wouldn't want anyone to wet their pants again.

NAVYBLUE

I beg your pardon. Up till this point, this thread has not been very political. In fact my post #3 may have been the most political and I was not complimentary to either major party. Most of us who have posted have pointed out several good reasons why this classifies as, imho, a hare brained scheme. It's also been pointed out that Mr Carmichael is not necessarily Amtrak friendly.

You have your thoughts on what Amtrak should do. Great! Let us all discuss this, and other topics, in a calm and rational way, with give and take, respecting each other where NOBODY raises their voice. Disagreement does not necessarily indicate disrespect. This should be a fun and enjoyable place for rail fans - or fanatics.

Oh, and by the way, we're not all kiddies here. Some of us (self included) just act that way from time to time.

EVERYONE who posts about this subject is making a POLITICAL statement. AMTRAK receives a government subsidy. It is a quasi govt entity, therefore it is POLITICAL whether you are pro or con.

Your welcome,

NAVYBLUE