Tracking FY 2024 Ridership and Finances

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Unfortunately this management does not see it that way. I expect Gardner and the BOD to get more aggressive in front of Congress to let them drop some trains. Poor financials whether legit or self induced don’t help the matter. Inflating LD costs and a more stingy Congress could see things turn South very quickly. This may not be the thread but I also don’t see a LD order being placed. Just more hemming and hawing although as of recently it’s just been quiet.

The fares really need to be addressed. The long standing saying was Amtrak shouldn’t be a land cruise. Ironically now a 7-14 day cruise can be found much cheaper than 2 nights in an Amtrak bedroom. $3500 ish CHI to SEA/EMY/LAX. 7 night cruises can be found under $500. It may be an apple to oranges comparison but that’s my families rational for no trips in the last 2 plus years. We used to take 3 LD trips a year. Amtraks just not a good value in today’s travel market and it looks like people are finally getting wise.
 
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Amtrakfflyer said:
Unfortunately this management does not see it that way. I expect Gardner and the BOD to get more aggressive in front of Congress to let them drop some trains. Poor financials whether legit or self induced don’t help the matter. Inflating LD costs and a more stingy Congress could see things turn South very quickly. This may not be the thread but I also don’t see a LD order being placed. Just more hemming and hawing although as of recently it’s just been quiet.

The fares really need to be addressed. The long standing saying was Amtrak shouldn’t be a land cruise. Ironically now a 7-14 day cruise can be found much cheaper than 2 nights in an Amtrak bedroom. $3500 ish CHI to SEA/EMY/LAX. 7 night cruises can be found under $500. It may be an apple to oranges comparison but that’s my families rational for no trips in the last 2 plus years. We used to take 3 LD trips a year. Amtraks just not a good value in today’s travel market and it looks like people are finally getting wise.
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The only way to lower sleeper fares is to increase inventory. They are not a good value proposition and no one really says that they are. Other travel modes, cruises and First Class air, present better, sometimes much better, value propositions, but that is immaterial. The prices are due to very constrained inventory that doesn't meet demand, not the product's value.

The prices will remain high, and perhaps rise higher as more capacity is lost due to wrecks, until more cars are ordered, built and put into service, if that ever happens. I share your skepticism there.

Supply better meeting demand is the only actual solution.
 
But the fares don't need to be as high as they are, regardless of the supply or the revenue they pull in. They suppress ridership and discourage first-time riders, the most important demographic that Amtrak desperately needs to convince.
 
daybeers said:
But the fares don't need to be as high as they are, regardless of the supply or the revenue they pull in. They suppress ridership and discourage first-time riders, the most important demographic that Amtrak desperately needs to convince.
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No, they could give it away if they wanted to forgo revenue. I don’t think they want to, though. In a market economy a scarce commodity is rationed by price, which is what they're doing.

"Supress ridership". Forgive me, but I actually laughed out loud at that. I didn't use the LOL or the emoji because I really did laugh. If you don't have capacity, you aren't suppressing anything, since you sold all you have to sell.

As to first time riders, there appear to remain enough curious about overnight train travel to fill out what little capacity there is. Whether or not they return is a different question, but there are others after them.

What seems to get lost in this is how limited the inventory really is. Currently the biggest Superliner sleeper consists are two sleepers and a transdorm.
That means on any departure there are at most 30-34 roomettes (depending how many are released for sale in the transdorm) 10 bedrooms, 2 accessible rooms, and 2 family or rooms. Some train have far less, like the Sunset with one sleeper and no transdorm. It really doesn't take very much demand at all, in an absolute sense, to consume that.

I disagree with Amtrak management about a lot things and have a generally low opinion of their intelligence and competence, but they are right in this. You get the revenue you can out of the assets you have. If they screw up their yield management so that more than a few rooms consistently go out empty year round, then they'll need to adjust the approach and lower prices. Amtrak does seem to have a near infinite capacity for screwing up, so that is entirely possible.

In the meantime, the best thing they can do is improve the experience and so the value proposition. Ensuring the windows are clean would be a good start. Deep sixing Flex. Acting to make onboard service consistent at a decent level is a fond wish of mine.
 
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zephyr17 said:
"Supress ridership". Forgive me, but I actually laughed out loud at that. I didn't use the LOL or the emoji because I really did laugh. If you don't have capacity, you aren't suppressing anything, since you sold all you have to sell.
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Ridership is suppressed by Amtrak not operating at least 80% of its full inventory of cars. We all know that its past and present practices of cost savings over revenue enhancements. As far as LD trains loosing a lot of money IMO that may be a red hearing.

We all suspect that cost allocations are very suspect. The example of the cost of snow removal at MIA station is very questionable. That makes one wonder what items are being allocated to LD services that no one has found. Now if any LD route is terminated then all the LD costs will be spread out on the remaining LD trains. Is that what we want? Take any LD route . If one or maybe even two new round trips are added almost no fixed station costs would increase. many station with one round trip has to keep 4 agents on staff to meet odd ball schedule time and then overtime if one train is very late. More trains might only need zero or one additional agent to cover the station hours.

IMO only above rail operating costs of a train should be considered for determining if it is needed. The Sunset and Cardinal operating 3 time a week just looses all

So, Get the equipment and the necessary marketing to entice persons to ride. There is no marketing here because there is no available seats. MORE LATER.
 

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