Tracking FY 2024 Ridership and Finances

[Bostontoallpoints]

I may be missing something, if but Amtrak had to spend $2 billion on capital improvements on the NEC, and it only made a $235 million in operating profits, that would strike me as a $1.7 billion loss.

The capital improvements are over several years rewarded by the U.S. government. So that wouldn't be accounted for as a loss.

 

[jimdex]

One could also argue that having people get on and off along the route could increase revenue,

I don't really see how that could work, unless you're charging substantially higher per-mile fares for shorter trips. Let's consider a hypothetical train route running from Point "A" to Point "D." If a non-stop train leaves Point A" 100% full, it will be 100% full for its entire trip. But if a full train leaving Point A stops at point B to drop off ten passengers and pick up five passengers, it will have five empty seats until it stops at point C. And even if it picks up five new passengers at Point C and arrives at Point D 100% full, it will have generated fewer passenger miles than a non-stop train because of the empty seats between Point B and Point C. All other factors being equal, more passenger miles = more revenue.

 

[JamesWhitcombRiley]

According to the report the operating expenses for the Auto Train is $102.2 million. The operating expenses for the Silver Star is $87.3 million. So it appears to me that the Auto Train would have higher labor expenses than the Silver Star. In fact the Auto Train has the highest expenses of most LD trains with the exception of the Empire Builder, Zephyr and Chief. The Auto Train's biggest difference is revenue compared to the Silver Star. The Auto Train brings in $114 million verses the $38 million that the Star brings in. The Silver Star carries more passengers, 363 thousand verses 253 thousand on the Auto Train. The Auto Train carries 5 super liner sleeping cars (sometimes up to 8 sleepers) and 4 coaches. The Silver Star carries 3 viewliner coaches and 2 sleepers.

I am more inclined to deduce that the Auto Trains larger sleeper capacity and ability to add more sleepers cars are the main reason for the Auto Train's profitability.

Guess it makes a profit on the cars & trucks.

I may be missing something, if but Amtrak had to spend $2 billion on capital improvements on the NEC, and it only made a $235 million in operating profits, that would strike me as a $1.7 billion loss.

Capital expenses are amortized over years. You're looking for cash flow maybe. I am not an accountant.

 

[MARC Rider]

According to the report the operating expenses for the Auto Train is $102.2 million. The operating expenses for the Silver Star is $87.3 million. So it appears to me that the Auto Train would have higher labor expenses than the Silver Star. In fact the Auto Train has the highest expenses of most LD trains with the exception of the Empire Builder, Zephyr and Chief. The Auto Train's biggest difference is revenue compared to the Silver Star. The Auto Train brings in $114 million verses the $38 million that the Star brings in. The Silver Star carries more passengers, 363 thousand verses 253 thousand on the Auto Train. The Auto Train carries 5 super liner sleeping cars (sometimes up to 8 sleepers) and 4 coaches. The Silver Star carries 3 viewliner coaches and 2 sleepers.

I am more inclined to deduce that the Auto Trains larger sleeper capacity and ability to add more sleepers cars are the main reason for the Auto Train's profitability.

Also remember that passengers on the Auto Train are also paying a stiff charge to transport their car, which may offset the additional expenses involved with the autoracks.

 

[jimdex]

The capital improvements are over several years rewarded by the U.S. government. So that wouldn't be accounted for as a loss.

Yes, but Amtrak requests similar grants for the Northeast Corridor every year (I believe it's asking for $1.5 billion for fiscal 2025.) If capital costs exceed operating profits every year, that's a net loss.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

I don't really see how that could work, unless you're charging substantially higher per-mile fares for shorter trips. Let's consider a hypothetical train route running from Point "A" to Point "D." If a non-stop train leaves Point A" 100% full, it will be 100% full for its entire trip. But if a full train leaving Point A stops at point B to drop off ten passengers and pick up five passengers, it will have five empty seats until it stops at point C. And even if it picks up five new passengers at Point C and arrives at Point D 100% full, it will have generated fewer passenger miles than a non-stop train because of the empty seats between Point B and Point C. All other factors being equal, more passenger miles = more revenue.

On the NEC Amtrak charges higher per-mile fares for shorter trips. It is driven by demand using dynamic pricing. In fact Amtrak uses dynamic pricing for their sleepers across the whole system. So say unloading 10 passenger paying $100 a piece but picking up 5 passengers at $300 a piece you can make more money. If you take the NEC from end to end you see this phenomena repeated over and over. Trains empty out at points in Phil and NYP but gain more passengers many of whom are paying higher ticket rates.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Yes, but Amtrak requests similar grants for the Northeast Corridor every year (I believe it's asking for $1.5 billion for fiscal 2025.) If capital costs exceed operating profits every year, that's a net loss.

Capitol expenses are actually amortized out over several years depending on the expense. So if the $1.5 billion is amortized out over 10 years that would make it a net profit.

 

[Bostontoallpoints]

Also remember that passengers on the Auto Train are also paying a stiff charge to transport their car, which may offset the additional expenses involved with the autoracks.

It is $285 for a standard vehicle.

 

[jis]

Also remember that passengers on the Auto Train are also paying a stiff charge to transport their car, which may offset the additional expenses involved with the autoracks.

It does. Actually the Autorack part of the Auto Train operation is probably the most profitable.

The fact that Auto Train carries way more Sleepers than any other train also helps.