Train Jam 2019: CZ (5) March 14-16, 2019

[jebr]

Moderator note:

I've merged two threads together talking about the Train Jam. Please have all discussion in this thread.

Thanks!

 

[cpotisch]

Hi, Train Jam organizer here!

We do a lot of things just to keep the organization simple since a lot of the folks who come onto the train have never ridden a train before (let-alone a long distance Amtrak train, specifically), and many are traveling from abroad (so they aren't familiar with American trains at all). One of the major things I do is to just cap each room at 2 people. Doing this stops a lot of confusion for people in terms of pricing, space, ticket type, etc (both for the folks coming on the train AND for me keeping track of 342 people).  We also use a combination of the tickets and sponsor money to cover all snacks in both (yep, two!) lounge cars, so pricing might look a bit strange to those of you who are used to Amtrak's regular pricing.

I know it's a little strange to have us take over an entire train once a year, but so many people who attend Train Jam get such a joy out of being able to travel across the country, see the amazing sights, and work with a diverse set of people from all over the world....all while doing the thing they love - creating games. We have people from almost every continent of the world who have never been to the US before, who get to immediately experience some of the absolute best scenery the US has to offer, and I really appreciate how much Amtrak has embraced us over the years to do such a weird thing in such an amazing place.

If you want a little taste of what Train Jam is like, here's an article that was written about us a few years ago (before we were big enough to take over the whole train), which I think really captures the spirit of why we do this every year: https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/4/8/11376970/train-jam-2016

I'd love to answer any questions y'all might have about us!

Have you ever considered changing up the route? Like the Southwest Chief or Empire Builder?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Have you ever considered changing up the route? Like the Southwest Chief or Empire Builder?

The conference is in San Francisco. Using the Chief or Builder would involve reserving another train and transfers.  They have enough detractors reserving one train in its entirety.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Hey everyone - I'm Adriel, the founder and organizer of Train Jam.

Greetings, Ms. Adriel! Thank you for joining us. As you can see, Train Jam threads are hot topics, particularly among the people that think a regular scheduled train shouldn't get chartered out. Along those lines,  I am curious. Did you or Amtrak every broach the possibility of running this as a separate,  extra train?

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Train Jam threads are hot topics, particularly among the people that think a regular scheduled train shouldn't get chartered out.

I think the main issue people have is the risk of losing a paid and booked ticket in order to re-book the train for another group.  So long as that's not possible I don't think most people would have an issue with it.  The only issue I have with the Safety Train was that some passengers were reported to have lost their paid bookings in order to accommodate a group that finalized their plans at a later date.  That feels fundamentally unfair to me.  Maybe Amtrak is unable or unwilling to force the Safety Train people to make up their mind before tickets go on sale, but at least they could block the Safety Train's schedule window from purchase until that train is finalized.  That way nobody ends up having to re-book a prepaid trip from scratch after the fact.

 

[MsMinotaur]

Have you ever considered changing up the route? Like the Southwest Chief or Empire Builder? 

I've ridden the Empire Builder before (it's actually the trip that inspired the idea of Train Jam, initially), however, I sync the trip up with the Game Developer's Conference, which takes place in San Francisco, so CZ is the perfect choice every year.

Greetings, Ms. Adriel! Thank you for joining us. As you can see, Train Jam threads are hot topics, particularly among the people that think a regular scheduled train shouldn't get chartered out. Along those lines,  I am curious. Did you or Amtrak every broach the possibility of running this as a separate,  extra train? 

We've never really discussed it, though it's something I think of asking about sometimes. If I understand correctly, it would be an incredible amount of work to run a full second CZ while maintaining their regular schedule. Plus, we have a few extra cars on top of the standard layout, so I'm sure that throws a major wrench into the idea of running an additional train.

I think the main issue people have is the risk of losing a paid and booked ticket in order to re-book the train for another group.  So long as that's not possible I don't think most people would have an issue with it.  The only issue I have with the Safety Train was that some passengers were reported to have lost their paid bookings in order to accommodate a group that finalized their plans at a later date.  That feels fundamentally unfair to me.  Maybe Amtrak is unable or unwilling to force the Safety Train people to make up their mind before tickets go on sale, but at least they could block the Safety Train's schedule window from purchase until that train is finalized.  That way nobody ends up having to re-book a prepaid trip from scratch after the fact.

Yeah, I think I mentioned this somewhere else, but we work with Amtrak to secure the trip pretty much immediately after the previous Train Jam is done. This all gets finalized before tickets would have been available for public sale anyway, so there's no longer the chance for someone to get a ticket and then get rescheduled/refunded. I'm in the fortunate position of being pretty certain that I can round up 342 people to ride a train with me, so I'm able to agree to everything with Amtrak very very early in the year.

 

[StanJazz]

Could they run the regular train combined with the Train Jam train. 3 p42's, the Train Jam cars and then the regular cars? It happens in March when most trains are shorter than normal so there should be plenty of extra cars. If the combined train is too many cars for HEP then put the 1 cab car that has a HEP generator between the 2 sections of the train.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Could they run the regular train combined with the Train Jam train. 3 p42's, the Train Jam cars and then the regular cars? It happens in March when most trains are shorter than normal so there should be plenty of extra cars. If the combined train is too many cars for HEP then put the 1 cab car that has a HEP generator between the 2 sections of the train.

The train cannot exceed 14 pieces of equipment at Denver. Train Jam is already at 13 pieces of equipment..and that assumes they only use 2 locomotives.

 

[cpotisch]

The train cannot exceed 14 pieces of equipment at Denver. Train Jam is already at 13 pieces of equipment..and that assumes they only use 2 locomotives.

Also, what "cab car that has a HEP generator" is he referring to?

 

[Thirdrail7]

Also, what "cab car that has a HEP generator" is he referring to?

I was trying to let that go :blink: .

Boy, you don't miss a thing, do you? :giggle:

 

[cpotisch]

Boy, you don't miss a thing, do you? :giggle:

You mean that in a bad way?

 

[StanJazz]

Also, what "cab car that has a HEP generator" is he referring to?

The cab car that was used with the Anniversary Train. #406.

 

[cpotisch]

Also, what "cab car that has a HEP generator" is he referring to?

The cab car that was used with the Anniversary Train. 

Which one?

 

[StanJazz]

Which one?

#406.

 

[StanJazz]

 I remember one took out the  engine but kept a HEP generator.

 

[John Santos]

The train cannot exceed 14 pieces of equipment at Denver. Train Jam is already at 13 pieces of equipment..and that assumes they only use 2 locomotives.

Is is due to the fact that Denver is not an in-line, through station, but trains have to pull in, then back out before moving forward again, or pull past the station, back in to load/unload passengers, then pull forward to get back to the main line?

Could an extra long train do this, with the provision that the passengers in the cars beyond the end of the platform could not get on or off the train?  (I.E. put the Train Jam cars at the front or back (depending on if the train backs into the station or backs out of the station) since they are all full passengers.  Sorry, no smoking break at Denver

Or would the extra cars parked on the track block other tracks at the station or even reach all the way back to the main line and block it?  I think there are lots of commuter trains and, on the main line, freight traffic that could be impeded.

Another issue might be if the train needed servicing in Denver.  If backed in to the station, the engines could probably not be refueled.  The diners and cafe in the Train Jam section probably could not be restocked (if that normally happens in Denver) and any other servicing (water, toilets, fresh towels for the showers, trash removal, etc. couldn't be done either.  If the servicing normally happens somewhere else, this wouldn't matter, but I suspect Denver is the most likely location.  (I only rode the CZ once and don't remember where they serviced the train.)

 

[cpotisch]

Yeah, the Zephyr gets serviced and refueled in Denver, as well as Salt Lake City (and maybe Omaha?). So I don’t think they would want to deal with a 26 car train there.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The train back in to the station.  The train shed design was modified to allow engines under it.  However that does not occur under normal operations.   There is space in front of the platform before the switch. That could hold more cars, just not many. The fuel drip pads are where the engines stop on, even when the trainset is short.  There is no resupply for the train, done in Denver.

The area around Denver Union Station was rebuilt and developed recently.  The new design makes the area quite popular, and leaves no room for improvement to the rail part of the station.  This issue was point out by many before the first building was built, but was disregarded by the powers to be.  At some point you will find Amtrak stopping at a station on the outskirts of the downtown area.  The commuter rail will need ever available platform. Just a matter of time.

 

[neroden]

The conference is in San Francisco. Using the Chief or Builder would involve reserving another train and transfers.  They have enough detractors reserving one train in its entirety.

Or the Coast Starlight?  (Although I know it's a shorter trip.)  I think there's probably a ton of developers who would have reason to visit Seattle or Portland (or LA) immediately before going to a San Francisco conference.

 

[neroden]

The train back in to the station.  The train shed design was modified to allow engines under it.  However that does not occur under normal operations.   There is space in front of the platform before the switch. That could hold more cars, just not many. The fuel drip pads are where the engines stop on, even when the trainset is short.  There is no resupply for the train, done in Denver.

The area around Denver Union Station was rebuilt and developed recently.  The new design makes the area quite popular, and leaves no room for improvement to the rail part of the station.  This issue was point out by many before the first building was built, but was disregarded by the powers to be.  At some point you will find Amtrak stopping at a station on the outskirts of the downtown area.  The commuter rail will need ever available platform. Just a matter of time.

Nobody's going to allow that; there is enough Amtrak-to-Denver business they'll never let them leave Denver.  The point has been made that they could knock out the buildings beyond the end of the tracks (which are not essential) to extend the platforms.  The point has also been made that they could put a platform on the lines just north of the light rail stop (there's just enough room).

If they ever had the sense to run a second train Chicago-Denver, both trains would end up shorter and fit.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

The point has also been made that they could put a platform on the lines just north of the light rail stop (there's just enough room).

That would be a interesting space.  If it does fit. All those brand new buildings around the train station.

 

[MsMinotaur]

Or the Coast Starlight?  (Although I know it's a shorter trip.)  I think there's probably a ton of developers who would have reason to visit Seattle or Portland (or LA) immediately before going to a San Francisco conference.

I've thought about it (and, honestly, because of Train Jam, a lot of developers from LA and Seattle/Portland area have started taking the train to the Game Developer's Conference). However, Train Jam is based off the idea of a Game Jam (which is basically a hackathon for video games)- and most typical game jams try to hit around 48 hours. Even though you can have shorter (and longer) game jams, 48 hours is kind of the perfect amount of time to come up with an idea, find a team, get your first prototype done, and finish a game that is stable and playable. With the CZ route being 52 hours (and ending in the right spot for GDC,) it's the perfect route. If I remember correctly, the Coast Starlight would take about 24 hours to get from Seattle to Emeryville, which is good enough, but not ideal in terms of time.

I'll never forget the year that we were a 4+ hours ahead of schedule, and I asked the conductor if there was any way to delay our arrival so that folks had more time to work on their games. He said it's the first time any passenger had ever asked him to go slower.

 

[chakk]

And the timing of arrival of the CZ in Emeryville is good for the Jammers to check into their hotels. The CS from Seatte arrives way too early for hotal checkin, and the CS from LA is a bit late, with the Oakland arrival around 10 pm.

And since the “Jammed” CZ has no boardings or detrainings scheduled enroute — just service stops and perhaps the occasional fresh air stop — the dispatchers can move the train ahead of schedule anytime after departing Chicago, if desired.

 

[cpotisch]

The conference is in San Francisco. Using the Chief or Builder would involve reserving another train and transfers.  They have enough detractors reserving one train in its entirety.

Or the Coast Starlight?  (Although I know it's a shorter trip.)  I think there's probably a ton of developers who would have reason to visit Seattle or Portland (or LA) immediately before going to a San Francisco conference.

Seattle to Emeryville is the longest possible Starlight segment they could do, and it's only a little over 22 hours. It's not just a matter of TrainJammers enjoying a longer ride; they are actually developing a video game onboard, and I don't think that's doable in that time.

EDIT: Whoops, just saw Adriel's response.

 

[Seaboard92]

Now I have to ask the question everyone knows I have. Have you guys ever thought about using private railcars? I'm sure several operators would be all over it. And some would probably attempt to run it as a stand alone train.

But here is a question for others. I see the mention of a limit in Denver. However my locomotive guide (granted it's probably out of date because it lists the IPH Hoosier State) only lists a restriction of 15 cars at Chicago and 19 at Emeryville. Extra loco charge required for excessive PVs.