Trying to Improve Amtrak Schedules in Ohio

[ParanoidAndroid]

I have made Nashville TN - Chattanooga TN - Atlanta GA pink. Sorry Chattanooga.

Oh, and mind the time change, which helps me (going westbound), and hurts me (going eastbound). In fact, these schedules depend on the westbound time change to provide well-timed service to their destinations, yet still connect to the Texas Eagle. Louisville is a still a bit tight though.

Schedules St. Louis MO - Louisville KY, and we don't really need through cars. People are capable of transferring trains on their own. Took 10 hours for L&N to do this in 1958. Say 13 hours now (I know, it's a bit much, but that track is probably OLD as hell and very rickety too).

Texas Eagle Arrive St. Louis MO 7:19A/Depart 7:55A

St. Louis MO 8:15A (sadistic to assume trains are late, though it's true)

Centralia IL 10:30A (meh)

Crew Change

Louisville KY 10:30P

Louisville KY 7:00A

Crew Change

Centralia IL 5:00P (extremely tight transfer to the northbound Saluki, probably delay it a bit to 5:30P or so)

St. Louis MO 7:15P

Texas Eagle Arrive St. Louis MO 7:21P/Depart 8:00P

Amtrak took 2 hours to do Centralia IL to St. Louis, as did Southern 2.5 hours from Mt. Vernon IL to St. Louis MO, so I added that in as-is, with a bit of delay. Connecting to the Cardinal on this route is hopeless with these schedules.

Schedules St. Louis MO - Indianapolis IN

Next, Amtrak took 5 - 5.5 hours to do STL - IND in 1979. Say 7 hours today.

Texas Eagle Arrive St. Louis MO 7:19A/Depart 7:55A

St. Louis MO 8:30A

Effingham IL 11:15A (great for going to Carbondale)

Terre Haute IN 2:35P

Indianapolis IN 4:30P

Cardinal Arrive Indianapolis IN 5:50P/Depart 5:59P

Cardinal Arrive Indianapolis IN 11:20A/12:00N

Indianapolis IN 1:00P

Terre Haute IN 2:55P

Effingham IL 4:15P

St. Louis MO 7:00P

Texas Eagle Arrive St. Louis MO 7:21P/Depart 8:00P

That's it for this post. Thanks for reading.

 

[neroden]

Really. Jis, where can I get those DVDs... and how far back do they go?

The first Official Guide was published in 1868, and it was *MONTHLY*. Even though that's a good 38 years after US railway development started, I'd still find the very early ones fascinating.

You can order it through amazon.com. It is actually produced and sold by Taplines. Don Hensley is the person who does it. He is out of Bartow FL, and is a very nice guy.

As far as I can tell the set contains virtually everything from 1868 to 1969. Before 1868 there were no Official Guides. What is included is the 1848 Appleton's Railway Guide and the 1851 American Railway Guide.

Here is a direct link to the page for the whole set. You can also order each of the three DVDs in the set individually.

Official Guide Railway Collection 1848 - 1969

I actually overstated on the "every one ever published, since the Official Guide was published for several years after 1969. I have a 1971 paper copy. Incidentally I also have a paper copy facsimile of the 1868 first issue.

OK, I see he didn't actually get anywhere *near* every one ever published. It's a good cross-section but it advertises that it only has one every few years, a total of 42 and there's a *big* gap from 1910 to 1930. As I say the Official Guide was originally updated monthly (!!!!).

I guess these are the ones he was able to get copies of -- it would be a pretty long shot to find copies of every issue of a monthly publication for 100 years, and it would probably be a lot of DVDs!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

But seeing it takes 4 hours to drive STL to LVL and 4 hours STL to IND, these trains aren't competitive at all. Might as well cancel STL to LVL.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

This has become a Cardinal extension and dream fantasy land thread, rather than an Ohio State Limited thread. I'm sorry for interrupting Philly. Perhaps I'll start a new Cardinal extension thread.

I'm getting too enthusiastic about unrealistic stuff. Realistically, if we're quite lucky, we'll get a changed Cardinal schedule, an Indianapolis IN - St Louis MO connection, and MAYBE a Kentucky Cardinal resurrection to Louisville, and then if we're REALLY lucky, then to Nashville, but after that is completely dream-land to me. Sorry to be pessimistic, but that's the feeling I get from the state of Amtrak now and the forum and the smart people on here. Like you and the Atlanta schedule guy on the other thread and such.

Only if Amtrak gets really much more support and money and equipment, then there might be consideration of a start of a web of trains in Kentucky and surrounding cities (like St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta etc). Then we can more realistically dream of Floridians and Tennesseans (Washington - Roanoke - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Memphis, crazy right?) and National Limited connections with the SWC and more.

If I'm too pessimistic, please tell me.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

This has become a Cardinal extension and dream fantasy land thread, rather than an Ohio State Limited thread. I'm sorry for interrupting Philly. Perhaps I'll start a new Cardinal extension thread.

I'm getting too enthusiastic about unrealistic stuff. Realistically, if we're quite lucky, we'll get a changed Cardinal schedule, an Indianapolis IN - St Louis MO connection, and MAYBE a Kentucky Cardinal resurrection to Louisville, and then if we're REALLY lucky, then to Nashville, but after that is completely dream-land to me. Sorry to be pessimistic, but that's the feeling I get from the state of Amtrak now and the forum and the smart people on here. Like you and the Atlanta schedule guy on the other thread and such.

Only if Amtrak gets really much more support and money and equipment, then there might be consideration of a start of a web of trains in Kentucky and surrounding cities (like St. Louis, Nashville, Atlanta etc). Then we can more realistically dream of Floridians and Tennesseans (Washington - Roanoke - Knoxville - Chattanooga - Memphis, crazy right?) and National Limited connections with the SWC and more.

If I'm too pessimistic, please tell me.

Considering what Amtrak has done to LD service between my first Broadway Limited trip and today, you're not too pessimistic, you're realistic.

We are all waiting patiently for the Viewliner II's and things should in theory change. In my opinion, the BL/TR should be the first LD train that should be added (if they run via TOL/CLE then there are no new tracks that need to be run although if they can negotiate a Michigan/Toledo connection they can run the train from CHI to the Detroit area and then to Toledo). As much as everyone wants a daily Cardinal, Buckingham Branch still has to be fixed even if the Viewliner II's begin running.

Then again speaking of Buckingham Branch, Amtrak's timetable lists Buckingham Branch from Culpeper to Clifton Forge.

Current Culpepper to Clifton Forge times:

51: 12:30-4:18pm

50: 12:44-4:35pm

So these trains are traveling Buckingham Branch at around the same time.

My proposed time switches:

51: 6:30-10:18pm

50: 6:44-10:35am

The trains are then spaced out.

If Buckingham Branch didn't have to worry about two Amtrak trains running around the same time on its tracks could Amtrak then be permitted to run the Cardinal daily? The irony is that if I'm reading the schedule correct both Cardinal trains serve the Buckingham Branch route on the same days (WeFrSun). You would think they would rather break them up so instead of having two trains on the same route at the same time on the same three days, you could have just one train six days a week.

To me, if you are going to expand Cardinal service you have to reschedule it to serve Cincinnati at better times. Otherwise, you have a train arriving/departing seven days a week during the graveyard shift instead of three days a week. Having the train leave CIN before midnight and arrive in CIN early in the morning screws Indy. Other than the endpoints which have other trains available for CHI-NEC travel, Indy and Cincinnati are the biggest unique markets along the Amtrak route (counting total population and not ridership). Shouldn't they be the priority of the Cardinal then? Sure, making a train daily in Cincinnati during the graveyard shift may very well double the current ridership. Why not put the times at regular hours and maybe Cincinnati ridership triples then? And then the times for the proposed Oxford stop would be outside the graveyard shift as well.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Wow. Never noticed that the 2 trains, run at the same time of day, on the same days on the Buckingham Branch. Almost seems like everyone was trying to hide it, or just didn't realize that was happening.

I think it's a great idea, as already discussed, to reschedule the Cardinal. The one you provide (as did Amtrak and C&O forever) is the best. Basically, we're making the Cardinal revert to the older schedule. Do you know the reason why Amtrak changed the Cardinal schedule to what it is today? Yes, the New River Gorge, but they basically gave up on good service to Cincinnati and Indianapolis, and to New York a bit (6:45am/9:56pm isn't that great). Was it conflict with the host railroads, or something else?

It was only changed randomly in the April 29, 1984 timetable, with Cardinal departing New York City at 6:30am instead of 4:30pm, bringing night-time service to Indianapolis and Cincinnati.

The rescheduling, as you said, would separate Cardinal times on the Buckingham, and bring daylight service to major cities on the route. Only Huntington and Charleston get thrown into the middle of the night. Even then, it's possible to reschedule it so that Huntington & Charleston get barely waking-hour service (like 7:00am going westbound and 11:00pm going eastbound), as I think I mentioned in one of my earlier Cardinal schedules. This would only make the Indianapolis to St. Louis connection a bit tighter. So if the St. Louis connection is gonna operate, it's best to leave Huntington & Charleston in the middle of the night .

It is funny that everyone says Buckingham Branch is old and worn out, etc, but they never think of rescheduling the train.

 

[neroden]

Historically, the Cardinal was backed by a Senator from West Virginia, which accounts for the schedule.

He's dead. It's time to change the Cardinal schedule to something which is better for everything east of WV and west of WV.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I'm happy that the Cardinal schedule changing doesn't seem that big of a deal (in terms of money, political support, yada yada yada)

Are there enough Superliners and/or Amfleets to do a Washington - Huntington - Washington day trip? It would need 2 train-sets to do it, and an overnight storage spot in Huntington WV. It would only need a few coaches, and a cafe car.

951 "Kanawha" or "Mountain State"?

WAS 920A (current Cardinal schedule, subtract 1 hour 40 mins)

CLP 1045A

CLF 238P

HUN 804P

950 "Kanawha" or "Mountain State"?

HUN 926A (current Cardinal schedule, add 2 hours 10 minutes)

CLF 254P

CLP 645P

WAS 829P

This would be extremely tight for the Buckingham Branch, with 4 trains running on it a day. (oh my gosh, 4 trains a day?!?! That's, like, a whole bunch!!! ) How many freight trains does this railroad carry every day?

But still, if we take another look, even with this new train, all the trains are running on it at different times of day, assuming the Cardinal is rescheduled. And these trains really need to be on-time for this to work, otherwise one of these will be delayed for hours, and that will absolutely crazy.

First train of the day, Cardinal #50

Clifton Forge VA 644A

Culpeper VA 1035A

Second train of the day, my new train #951

Culpeper VA 1045A

Clifton Forge VA 238P

Third train of the day, my new train #950

Clifton Forge VA 254P

Culpeper VA 645P

Fourth train of the day, Cardinal #51

Culpeper VA 710P

Clifton Forge VA 1058P

But they seriously need to add more sidings for this to work. These trains might literally hog up the whole railroad without adequate sidings. At least that's what I've heard.

Oh, and this is probably as far as my realistic dreaming will go.

 

[Thirdrail7]

I generally stay out of the fantasies of others since, in a fantasy world, all things are possible.

However, i just want to remind everyone that the timetables are set up around traffic, equipment turns and personnel availability.

When determining whether your ideals are truly feasible, do not forget to calculate these items into your equations. An example is the Cardinal has a same day turn in CHI to preserve equipment. If that turn isn't preserved, you'll need additional equipment.

Carry on!

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

See? I'm an amateur schedule-creator.

On this schedule

130P NYP

545P WAS

826A CIN

450P CHI

1145A CHI

927P CIN

1219P WAS

358P NYP

4 trains-sets required for daily service. If truncated to WAS and Amtrak can clean the train in 5.5 hours, then only 3 trains-sets required.

3 trains-sets for 3 days a week service, and 2 train-sets if truncated in WAS and cleaned in 5.5 hours.

On this schedule

(400A NYP)

815A WAS

1041P CIN

720A CHI

945P CHI

727A CIN

1019P WAS

(158A NYP)

4 train-sets required for daily service from CHI to NYP, the whole route, unless Amtrak can clean the train in 2 hours (unlikely, it also can be late). 3 train-sets for 3 days a week service CHI-NYP.

3 train-sets required for daily service if the train operates CHI-WAS, with a connection train up to NYP. 2 train-sets for 3 days a week service CHI-WAS.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

OK so if the turn is preserved, then what?

I would invert the schedule around Cincinnati, tweak it a bit, then see what happens.

CHI 545A

CIN 327P

WAS 619A

NYP 958A.

Horrible schedule. Let's shift it a couple hours forward.

CHI 800A

CIN 543P

WAS 834A

NYP 1213P Much better.

Coming back:

NYP 645P

WAS 1100P

CIN 141P

CHI 1005P

Hmm . . . maybe shift it an hour or two back?

NYP 515P

WAS 930P

CIN 1211P

CHI 835P

This would only work if Amtrak can clean the train in 4 hours at NYP, since the eastbound arrives at 1143A, and the westbound departs at 500P.

Now I'm really pushing it:

CHI 715A (maybe 740A would work better)

CIN 458P (523P)

WAS 749A (814A)

NYP 1128A (1153A)

NYP 600P (maybe 610P)

WAS 1015P (1025P)

CIN 1256P (106P)

CHI 920P (930P)

So the turn can only be preserved at the cost of stretching out the departure/arrival times at Chicago and the NEC, because the train has to serviced/cleaned between each run.

If we can run it only to Washington, and run a dedicated (or just close enough) connection train up to NYP, that extra roundtrip 3.5-4 hours each way will be gained, and put into evening out the rest of the schedule.

But, these stretched-out departure times will help spread-out the schedules of my possible WAS-HUN day train, which might be a silly idea, but hey. There's at least a resort at White Sulphur Springs (Greenbrier).

But if Amtrak is REALLY short on equipment (which I suppose it is), this is probably good enough for them. Problem 90% solved.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Max, if Amtrak can turn around the trains in NYP with the times you listed, I can support them. The one problem is it put Charlottesville into the graveyard shift both ways and I think that's a big market currently on the Cardinal which you could potentially lose to make up for gaining Cincinnati. My proposals, while requiring an extra train set, allow the Cardinal to give Cincinnati and Indianapolis good times and keep good times in Charlottesville.

When I was working on my proposal for a Charlotte/Atlanta-Florida train, one of the suggestions was moving the Silver Meteor back to an evening departure from NYP as was the case back a few years ago. Then, the train could be turned in NYP and travel south the same day which is not the case today (11:00am-3:15pm). I'm not sure why Amtrak then went from a schedule that required 3 sets to one requiring 4 but it isn't unprecedented.

And as you mentioned before Max, the Cardinal in the old days did serve Cincinnati at good hours but it looks like they only needed 3 sets as well and the train only went as far as WAS.

http://www.timetables.org/full.php?group=19780108&item=0035

They clearly had plenty of time to turn the train in WAS (8:35am to 9:35pm). Had they used the transfer trains listed to NYP the layover in New York would've been 12:56pm to 5:00pm, tighter than any schedule you have proposed.

I'm big on helping Ohio because All Aboard Ohio looks to be the only group I'm aware of with a proposal for a CHI-PGH-HAR-PHL train (not just the CL split/merge, a full train). I have seen other proposals in the past from AAO which involve CHI-PHL trains as well. Western Pennsylvanians for Passenger Rail efforts seem to center around multiple PGH-NYP trains. The Delaware Valley Association of Rail Passengers hardly even discusses Amtrak at their website. Though I feel the BL/TR were stolen, even I admit Ohio has it way worse than PHL (or even HAR). And I think AAO's idea for a CHI-NEC train via Michigan is brilliant. If Amtrak can re-establish service between Michigan and Toledo (even if it's just an extension of the Wolverine and passengers have to transfer in the middle of the night in Toledo, it still has to be better than the current Thruway bus situation there now), I think it's a game changer.

So I'm all for CIN and CLE/TOL having trains at better hours.

 

[afigg]

Then again speaking of Buckingham Branch, Amtrak's timetable lists Buckingham Branch from Culpeper to Clifton Forge.

Current Culpepper to Clifton Forge times:

51: 12:30-4:18pm

50: 12:44-4:35pm

So these trains are traveling Buckingham Branch at around the same time.

My proposed time switches:

51: 6:30-10:18pm

50: 6:44-10:35am

The trains are then spaced out.

If Buckingham Branch didn't have to worry about two Amtrak trains running around the same time on its tracks could Amtrak then be permitted to run the Cardinal daily? The irony is that if I'm reading the schedule correct both Cardinal trains serve the Buckingham Branch route on the same days (WeFrSun). You would think they would rather break them up so instead of having two trains on the same route at the same time on the same three days, you could have just one train six days a week.

The Cardinal schedule is designed to have both the east and westbound trains on the Buckingham Branch on the same day and time because that is exactly what BBRR wants. The North Mountain subdivision that the Cardinal runs on is a single track line with the longest siding at around 5600 feet long. The line is used by CSX to move 8000' long empty coal trains westbound. So there are no sidings for 116 miles that can fit the coal trains. Which means that when a Cardinal is running over the line, #51 could get stuck behind a slow coal train for a 100 miles or #50 would have to pull onto a siding and wait for the coal train to pass. What the BBRR does is to keep the coal trains and any other long freight trains off the line during the 3 days a week period the Cardinals are scheduled to come through. If the Cardinals came through at different times of the day, then there would be more schedule conflicts with the coal trains. There was an article in Trains Magazine a few years ago on the Buckingham Branch that went into detail on their operations and tracks. The BBRR is a constraint on the schedule options for the Cardinal and for going to daily service.
Virginia DRPT had a line item in their 6 year budget plan for a siding project on the BBRR North Mountain subdivision which was apparently a siding extension, but it is not listed in the FY16 Six Year Improvement Plan. Don't know if it was dropped or postponed.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Mr. Afigg,

Please don't bring facts into a fantasy thread. How rude!! :giggle:

I am captivated by these schedule proposals even though as previously mentioned, they are devoid of reality since they haven't accounted for traffic, host railroad profiles, equipment turns, equipment availability , crew turns or even S&I profiles in Amtrak terminals.

I'm really loving this whole sticking 51 out at the height of the commission period. ^_^

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Sounds like Buckingham Branch is too much a pain in the butt to deal with and Amtrak would be better off re-routing the Cardinal to another route (at least until they get it fixed). Anything Amtrak can run a daily train is better than having to deal with this for the next 5-10 years or however long it takes. Either run it through Columbus and Pittsburgh or maybe the old Shenandoah route. Or ... well you don't want me to say it.

Or just find a way to get Cincinnati some other train that they don't have to board during the graveyard shift.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

CSX has abandoned the line between Clarksburg WV and Parksburg WV, so the Shenandoah route is unusable.

If we're via Columbus and PGH to NYP, might as well passengers use your Ohio State Limited rather than the Cardinal, instead they want to go to Philly or Pittsburgh or something. But here it is based on your OSL schedule and the Old National Limited schedule:

CHI 11:15A

CIN 8:47/8:57P

Columbus OH 12:05A

PGH 4:55A Harumph connect to the Capitol Limited? 5:05A/5:20A

OK fine

PHL 1:00P

NYP 3:00P

NYP 1:40P

PHL 3:45P

PGH 11:30P hehehe Cap 11:48P/11:59P

Columbus OH 4:10A

CIN 7:15A/7:41A

CHI 4:05P

That kinda works, except you could connect to the Capitol Limited at PGH. Maybe get the Cap to go thru PGH and HAR and the Cardinal to go back down thru HFY to WAS. Or not, who knows.

Wanna hear an outlandish proposal? Route it via the old Hilltopper/Mountaineer route. It went from Catlettsburg KY through Williamson WV, Welch WV, Bluefield WV then to Roanoke VA. Now I would make it go on the route through Lynchburg VA, Charlottesville VA, and onwards.

It took Amtrak 15:45 hours to complete CAT-WAS. Assuming it doesn't stop at HUN (only AKY) then here would be a schedule:

CHI 9:45A

IND 3:50P/3:59P

CIN 7:17P/7:27P

AKY 10:35P

CVS 11:11A/11:20A

WAS 2:20P

NYP 5:59P

NYP 11:15A

WAS 3:30P

CVS 6:13/6:22P

AKY 7:15A

CIN 10:32A/10:42A

IND 2:16P/3:01P

CHI 7:06P

Look how LOL this schedule is! Pretty slow right? Literally around 32 hours to go from CHI to NYP!

I did this schedule just for fun, the above schedule is much better, but the turn schedule is no different

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I had tried the CIN-Columbus-PGH routing before although that was with the Cardinal's "normal" start and end times. I used All Aboard Ohio's proposed schedules/stops between CIN and Columbus and between Columbus and PGH. CIN was still overnight (they were 12:30/12:46am and 4:17/4:35am). The Columbus times were actually good (9:35/9:50pm west and 7:35/7:40am east). Dayton was also included in the proposal. I'll think about a shift to benefit Cincinnati. It might be better to leave Columbus in the graveyard shift. On one hand, you don't want to introduce new service to a market overnight. On the other, those same markets might be so happy to have a train that they would probably take anything. I think it would probably be best that western PA/HAR be in the graveyard shift and the train arrives in PGH from CHI right around midnight and leaves PGH for CHI first thing in the morning.

As for the Hilltopper/Mountaineer: A 32 hour detour? To serve who? No thanks.

Buckeye Limited December 2015 via Cincinnati and Dayton.pdf

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yes, going via Columbus and PGH is the most realistic way to do this. I'm assuming the CHI to CIN schedule should be the sameish. If we do PGH midnight/morning, then Chicago times are messed up (just inconvenient).

CHI 815A

IND 220P/229P

CIN 547P/557P

Columbus OH 905P

PGH 155A

HAR 740A

PHL 930A

NYP 1130A

Amtrak can probably do this turn

NYP 700P

PHL 900P

HAR 1050P

PGH 430A

Columbus OH 910A

CIN 1215P/1241P

IND 415P/500P

CHI 905P

Maybe the CHI arrival time is a bit too late, if so, the schedule can be shifted back half an hour or an hour or so.

And I dislike CSX for abandoning the Shenandoah route track. If they didn't, then it would be so much easier to reschedule the Cardinal and still provide service on the current route.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

I still like the idea of a three times a week (preferably daily, but the Buckingham Branch can't do that) Mountain State between WAS and HUN.

I think the current Cardinal schedules are good enough for that.

I misunderstood the "Parkersburg Branch" being abandoned; there's another line to Clarksburg that's still in operation, called that "Short Line" sub to Clarksburg WV. Then that would transition to the "Bridgeport" sub to Grafton WV, then on the "Mountain" sub to Cumberland MD. From there, the train could follow the current Cap Limited route to WAS.

Earlier schedules, projected ridership (probably low), track conditions are unknown at the moment.

But this is not a Cardinal extension thread anymore. Because of the BBRR, it is now a Cardinal demise mulling-over thread. If we really hate the BBRR (not personally, they're probably nice people), and you think the Pocahontas/Mountaineer route is bad, then Amtrak could just do CHI-IND-CIN, then split the train to HUN, name that the Cardinal, other split to PGH/NYP, name that the Buckeye not-so-Limited and be done with it. Other, faster connections can be done with your Ohio State Limited, Liberty Limited, Capitol Limited, Lake Shore Limited . . . wait nothing isn't limited around here . . .

Anyway, that's my opinion now. Unless there's still something magical and charming about the current Cardinal that everyone loves or something.

Read down Read up

50 Cardinal 51 Cardinal

CHI 8:15A 9:05P

IND 2:20P/2:29P 4:15P/5:00P

CIN 5:47P 12:41P

Thru cars 750 Buckeye State Thru cars 751 Buckeye State

CIN 6:10P 12:15P

Columbus OH 9:15P 9:10A

PGH 2:05A 4:30A

HAR 7:50A 10:50P

PHL 9:40A 9:00P

NYP 11:40A 7:00P

Thru cars 50 Cardinal Thru cars 51 Cardinal (I like to save the original, lower numbers for the original route )

CIN 5:57P 12:31P

HUN 9:39P 8:51A

This overnight at HUN to/from 950/951 is why I recommended the Hilltopper route, as it still keeps the purpose and feel of the Cardinal, and avoids the BBRR. If I can find Huntington WV - Parkersburg WV - Clarksburg WV - Cumberland MD - Washington DC schedules that are faster than this and still usable, the train would go on those tracks, not these. This is all assuming that the Cardinal would go through West Virginia, unlike stated above.

Unlikely 50 Cardinal Unlikely 51 Cardinal

(HUN 9:46P) (HUN 8:44A)

(CVS 10:50A/10:59A) (CVS 7:13P/7:22P)

(WAS 1:59P) (WAS 4:30P)

(NYP 5:38P) (NYP 12:15P)

Accidental padding included on #50 from CVS to WAS

950 Mountain State SuWeFr 951 Mountain State SuWeFr

HUN 7:46A 10:14P

HIN 11:04A 6:36P

CLF 1:14P 4:43P

CVS 3:40P/3:49P 2:13P/2:22P

CLP 5:05P 12:55P

WAS 6:49P 11:30A

NYP 10:28P 7:15A

Buckingham Branch should still be happy, everything was just shifted 30 minutes later in the day (12:55pm not 12:25pm, 1:14pm not 12:44pm, and so on).

Thanks for reading!

 

[Seaboard92]

Now forgive me if I haven't been around here as often. But with the coal traffic majorly decreasing. Maybe the BB could do a daily train

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Well, now you tell me. I shall go look it up when I have the time.

 

[jis]

Now forgive me if I haven't been around here as often. But with the coal traffic majorly decreasing. Maybe the BB could do a daily train

I am sure they will be happy to do so after they have extracted the appropriate number of greenbacks from the public coffers.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

Now forgive me if I haven't been around here as often. But with the coal traffic majorly decreasing. Maybe the BB could do a daily train

I am sure they will be happy to do so after they have extracted the appropriate number of greenbacks from the public coffers.

I'd rather use those greenbacks to negotiate with NS for a PHL-CHI train or with someone else for a train to give Ohio better service or introduce service to Louisville/Nashville, Phoenix, whatever.

 

[Philly Amtrak Fan]

I'm going to ask for clarification here.

Amtrak in its timetable list the Buckingham Branch portion as Culpepper to Clifton Forge, including Charlottesville. Well the Crescent as well as other trains to Charlottesville also runs between Culpepper to Charlottesville but they list Alexandria-Lynchburg-New Orleans as Norfolk Southern. Do the Crescent and Cardinal use different tracks between Culpepper and Charlottesville or do the other Virginia trains also use Buckingham Branch but Buckingham Branch is OK with those trains running? I'm guessing the real problems on BB is west of Charlottesville.

According to Wikipedia, Buckingham Branch is a Class III short line: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckingham_Branch_Railroad

I'm seeing most of the other LD's predominantly if not entirely on Amtrak, lines owned by other transportation agencies like MBTA or Metra, or NS, CSX, or other major freight lines. Do any other LD's run at all on short lines or tracks in as poor conditions as BB?

 

[afigg]

I'm going to ask for clarification here.

Amtrak in its timetable list the Buckingham Branch portion as Culpepper to Clifton Forge, including Charlottesville. Well the Crescent as well as other trains to Charlottesville also runs between Culpepper to Charlottesville but they list Alexandria-Lynchburg-New Orleans as Norfolk Southern. Do the Crescent and Cardinal use different tracks between Culpepper and Charlottesville or do the other Virginia trains also use Buckingham Branch but Buckingham Branch is OK with those trains running? I'm guessing the real problems on BB is west of Charlottesville.

Look at the system map for Buckingham Branch Railroad (BBRR website link). The Cardinal diverges from the NS tracks at Orange VA and runs on the BBRR from Orange to Gordonsville to Charlottesville to Clifton Forge. The Crescent and Virginia Regionals stay on the NS tracks (which are shown on the map) through Charlottesville and cross the BB line at tjhe Charlottesville station.

As for the track conditions, Virginia has been funding 70% of the cost for a series of track maintenance and signal modernization projects for the BB lines. Given the wide range of track conditions that Amtrak operates over, BBRR is probably not the worse track segment for the LD trains. The BBRR is the only Class 3 railroad that Amtrak runs over, IIRC. But that has little to do with the quality of the tracks, just the size of the Railroad operations.