TSA @ Chicago Union Station - July 5, 2012

[George Harris]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

I'm rejecting the rhetorical strategy of equating any criticism of the National Security State as giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy. It's one of the worst results of the September 2001 attacks, and I was surprised to find it used by someone with your probity and good sense.

I am NOT "equating any criticism of the National Security State as giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy" Quite the contrary. I think the whole idea that we need any form of "National Security State" is an example of the success of the enemy. Loosing our freedom to move in this country without the need to justify our existence and acts is to me a serious degredation of basic freedom.

 

[AutoTrDvr]

When I have seen TSA in CHI in recent months, they have been selecting every nth (5th, 10th, whatever it is) passenger for baggage checks.

I'm curious to know if they actually go through the baggage, or is it an x-ray screening?

Unless they can bring in portable X-Ray scanners, or they keep a set on hand at Union Station, I'm thinking they are hand inspecting.

If they start doing it on the AT, I think it will lose a lot of customers, who will just go back to driving the distance.

Looks like this was definitely in the planning. And it could get even worse! See this Article from Forbes.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It is obvvous that people are missing my point. I give up on trying to explain it.

I'm rejecting the rhetorical strategy of equating any criticism of the National Security State as giving Aid and Comfort to the Enemy. It's one of the worst results of the September 2001 attacks, and I was surprised to find it used by someone with your probity and good sense.

Not sure we're giving aid to the enemy (terrorists) by exposing potential targets, but I'm more concerned about "copy cat" type people trying something stupid just for the fun of it.

Can you name some actual examples of this "just for the fun of it" copycat terrorism you speak of? Because I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing until now.

 

[Donctor]

Obligatory Onion article: Al-Qaeda Claims U.S. Mass Transportation Infrastructure Must Drastically Improve Before Any Terrorist Attacks

Best line: "He also revealed the terrorist organization had wasted six months planning to take down Amtrak's regional operations before realizing that with its constant delays and malfunctions, the government-owned passenger train service "basically terrorizes itself.""

One of my favorite Onion articles.

"We want to turn your bridges into rubble, but if we claimed credit for making them collapse, nobody would ever believe us."

and

In addition, al-Zawahiri said a terrorist attack on O'Hare couldn't make the commercial aviation center any worse.

(O'Hare having been my home airport for 17 years, I must say I agree. Only Heathrow has been worse. And Taipei in 2000.)

Edited to include O'Hare line.

 

[SubwayNut]

They also quickly wanted me.

I sure hope that they wanded you, because what you wrote wouldn't be very good at all and would probably violate a dozen rules or so.

Yes they just wanded me, I wasn't wanted by a private security firm. I think that might have been an autocorrect issue too (can't remember if I wrote it from my iPhone or not.)

 

[The Chief]

The citizen's video showed TSA employees walking and looking, carrying a clipboard, at CUS.

Posts herein indicate TSA presence at various other Amtrak stations.

The CUS initial walkabout is like an inspection tour.

We have to remember that as a federal agency, one of the primary goals of TSA is to grow itself, increase number of employees, increase its reach, and add to middle and upper management.

Such forays into Amtrak facilities are an effort to preserve TSA's relevance and grow the agency. Federal employee headcount has increased by 143,000, according to Dept. of Labor stats, over last 41 months (Jan 2009-June 2012). Some of those employees are TSA.

 

[GoldenSpike]

The citizen's video showed TSA employees walking and looking, carrying a clipboard, at CUS.

Posts herein indicate TSA presence at various other Amtrak stations.

The CUS initial walkabout is like an inspection tour.

Their visit was more than that. Near the end of the video they are dragging a table acorss the

lobby which indicates they were setting up shop for a checkpoint.

We have to remember that as a federal agency, one of the primary goals of TSA is to grow itself, increase number of employees, increase its reach, and add to middle and upper management.

Such forays into Amtrak facilities are an effort to preserve TSA's relevance and grow the agency. Federal employee headcount has increased by 143,000, according to Dept. of Labor stats, over last 41 months (Jan 2009-June 2012). Some of those employees are TSA.

Don't know the outcome, but in May 2012, TSA was seeking doubling the security fee from $5 to $10.

 

[jis]

Since we have our predictable monthly blood-letting on the TSA, we should probably setup a sticky thread for such, so that those who wish to get a full background of the TSA discussion on AU do not have to go hunting to find the previous blood-letting sessions.

 

[The Chief]

Their <<sic>> visit was more than that. Near the end of the video they are dragging a table acorss <<sic>>the

lobby which indicates they were setting up shop for a checkpoint.

Yes, we saw that, too, while watching the entire vid.

In fact, that federal efficiency of lone employee noisily dragging the table over the hallowed marble of CUS was lone humorous part of vidclip.

Don't know the outcome, but in May 2012, TSA was seeking doubling the security fee from $5 to $10.

Interesting. If TSA gets foothold in Amtrak stations, agency will attempt to add federal tax fee to cost of PAX railfare, or force Amtrak to do so.

 

[GoldenSpike]

Yes, we saw that, too, while watching the entire vid.

In fact, that federal efficiency of lone employee noisily dragging the table over the hallowed marble of CUS was lone humorous part of vidclip.

My sentiments also. Two thoughts came to mind: 'Neanderthal' and 'tact-challenged.'

 

His female sidekick didn't help. Was it because it was above or below her pay grade?

 

[RRUserious]

We have to remember that as a federal agency, one of the primary goals of TSA is to grow itself, increase number of employees, increase its reach, and add to middle and upper management.

Just trying to "run government like a business". The last banking meltdown was caused by the same mindset.

 

[Nathanael]

You missed my piont entirely. It had nothing whatsoever to do with our government or what anyone in it might think of what we say here. It had to do with providing information and ideas to those who would like to do damage as to both the how adn what and what sort of reaction the act would cause.

Terrorists are not that stupid, and the idea of blowing up people waiting in long lines at a checkpoint has been known and published for *decades*. It's actually obvious.

It's not like the person you were responding to was coming up with an idea which was actually *clever* or *involved*. He was coming up with the sort of idea which every would-be terrorist in the world has already come up with. Real security requires actually discussing such things, not censoring ourselves.

 

[Dan O]

OLD THREAD ALERT--ONE YEAR OLD

On my recent trip from Chicago back to Southern California via the Southwest Chief, I had my bags swabbed for residue. I don't know if it was supposed to be voluntary or not. It wasn't presented as such. I was told to put my bags on a table. I put the one bag I was carrying but not my backpack or camera bag. They wanted those too. Didn't want the bags my son was carrying (he's 14 but looks about 12) that was with me. I was told to put all of the bags I had, backpack and camera bag on the table and they swabbed them and checked the swab. Never was told what was being looked for and my initial reaction was drugs, not explosives. It didn't make me feel any safer as a middle aged man traveling with a child is not the first person I'd pick to check. Don't know if they picked anyone behind me to test later or not.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-07-10-amtrakinside_N.htm

This is old but seemed like it was similar to what happened in CHI.

"No one has yet refused to have a bag scanned out of thousands of trainloads screened since February." From my experience, refusal was not an option.

"If a scan comes up positive, agents hand-search a bag. They have never found a bomb." Not sure if that is still the case but hardly something that makes me think it is effective.

Dan

 

[June the Coach Rider]

When I was in CHI on my return trip, I was waiting for the LSL and they kept us out of the loading lounge until the drug dogs were finished and then they had each person go thru one at a time past the same dog. As I am disabled, I was in and onto a red cap before most of the people were thru the gate, but I actually liked the fact that there was security around and they were checking everyone getting on my train which of course half of which heads to New York.

 

[Dan O]

When I was in CHI on my return trip, I was waiting for the LSL and they kept us out of the loading lounge until the drug dogs were finished and then they had each person go thru one at a time past the same dog. As I am disabled, I was in and onto a red cap before most of the people were thru the gate, but I actually liked the fact that there was security around and they were checking everyone getting on my train which of course half of which heads to New York.

All of the train is one thing. One or two persons does little for my confidence.

 

[Eric S]

I doubt there was the same such "security" at South Bend, Elkhart, Toledo, Sandusky, Cleveland, . . .

 

[Nathanael]

They are supposed to request permission before doing the explosives residue swab. You got abusive agents.

The explosives swab is something I would be OK with... except that every farmer has traces of explosives residue, because several fertilzers and explosives have the same residue. That's why the explosives swab procedure had to be abandoned at the airports.

 

[NW cannonball]

And this is possibly why the TSA don't swab for organic nitrates at all the small towns in IA, IN, IL, WI, MN, OH, ND, MO, MT and more -- everybody in a small farming community has synthetic or natural fertilizer on them, and maybe also a popular brand of gun barrel cleaner with nitromethane in it.

I always take a shower before plane travel and after turning my compost heap. Really.

 

[user 1215]

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-07-10-amtrakinside_N.htm

Wow. An Amtrak cop armed with a machine gun. Makes me feel MUCH safer! :unsure:

 

[jis]

They are supposed to request permission before doing the explosives residue swab. You got abusive agents.
The explosives swab is something I would be OK with... except that every farmer has traces of explosives residue, because several fertilzers and explosives have the same residue. That's why the explosives swab procedure had to be abandoned at the airports.

Really? Then why were they doing the explosive swab test randomly at Newark International week before last in the non-Pre-Check lanes, and very occasionally even for random picks from the Pre-Check lanes?

Incidentally I was delighted to find that now Pre-Check is available for International departures too. The three beeps is music to ones years!

 

[dlagrua]

Great report from the OP who is obviously a patriot passenger train rider.

This whole TSA thing makes me suspicious. Its 1930's Germany happening all over again, just the color of the shirt has changed. Soon the airline passenger sheep will be required to strip completely naked by the Blueshirt's and you will see that they passively comply. Where is the outcry? The TSA is why we refuse to fly and for 10 years haven't. We cannot allow the Blueshirt's to take over Amtrak.

Amtrak must be protected by "we the people" who must act as citizen observers. There are thousands of miles of track, and hundreds of stations in the system. We all have cell phones and it is up to us to be vigilant. We do not need the TSA on Amtrak. Bomb sniffing dogs at the large stations are OK by me as they are non- intrusive but if you look at the big picture it is debatable whether they do any good. What surpise's me is that people seem to be willing to blindly defend this administration when in fact the policies of the past are all rapidly expanding and carrying forward.

 

[Train Rider]

Its 1930's Germany happening all over again, just the color of the shirt has changed.

Reducto Ad Hitlerum is rarely a winning debate strategy.

 

[Ryan]

Goodwin's law.

 

[JoeBas]

The explosives swab is something I would be OK with... except that every farmer has traces of explosives residue, because several fertilzers and explosives have the same residue. That's why the explosives swab procedure had to be abandoned at the airports.

Not to mention that most hand lotions contain the same kind of nitrates that show up in the broad-spectrum tests that TSA uses.

So when 38 year old soccer mom presents as having "Explosive Residue", well, potential turrist.

 

[JoeBas]

Incidentally I was delighted to find that now Pre-Check is available for International departures too. The three beeps is music to ones years!

If you're an animal who happens to be more equal than most, cheers!

Me, 3 beeps should be the standard, absent some kind of reasonable, articulable suspicion.