TSA @ Chicago Union Station - July 5, 2012

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Its 1930's Germany happening all over again, just the color of the shirt has changed.
Reducto Ad Hitlerum is rarely a winning debate strategy.

Goodwin's law.
Godwin's law but, yes.

I despise the TSA as much as I wish death on all terrorists and TSA is why I don't fly anymore and also the reason I started taking a train.

I suppose I should thank them for that :)

There is nothing going on in this country that remotely resembles anything or anyone from 1930s Germany unless, of course, you're talking about those that belong to hate groups that try to put in practice the ideologies of those people and times.

Don't bother arguing with me, it's my opinion and not changing.

9/11 changed the United States and the world and that's a fact we all have to live with in a way that's comfortable for us.

As for me, that means no flying or going anywhere that entails submitting to overprotective security measures if I can help it.
 
The point is, even if you are more equal than others you don't always get three beeps. That is why it is music. Being on the GEOS or NEXUS program makes it more likely that you will get that than if you qualify just for being an elite in FF programs, is what I have been reading in various travel forums.

Personally I think the Pre-Check based on GOES is more about doing the harassing in one concentrated interview once every five years and charging you for that pleasure rather than doing it for each trip. It is pretty much the way these things go. Anyone who is willing to shell out the $100 for applying for GOES and undergo the weird interview where false accusations are hurled at you sometimes, for you to defend and call the interviewer on it, can have the pleasure of hearing the three beeps most of the time. When you have to travel a lot you just gotta do what you gotta do to make it as tolerable as possible.

Being on those programs additionally makes the process of entering the country at airport CBP barriers a breeze too as an added bonus. One cost of doing all this is providing the biometrics to the same outfit one more time, beyond the several other times I have already provided it for gaining citizenship by naturalization. So I have much less of an objection to that part than one who is citizen by birth.

9/11 changed the United States and the world and that's a fact we all have to live with in a way that's comfortable for us.As for me, that means no flying or going anywhere that entails submitting to overprotective security measures if I can help it.
Actually airport security of equally arbitrary nature existed even before 9/11, but was somewhat more relaxed before 9/11 in the US when compared to the rest of the world. So naturally people in the US became more aware of it after 9/11. Airport security started originally as a response to a spate of hijackings in the '70s. 9/11 only caused it to be brought under a single federal agency in the US. In other countries airport security was already handled by government agencies before 9/11 in many places.
I have flown extensively before, during the post 9/11 panic, and after that, and specially in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 was subjected to profiling a lot more than after they figured out a more non-paniced mode of operation. All that changed is that the security check became a bit more officious after the 9/11 panic passed, and non-travelers were finally completely banned from entering the secured area.

I flew eight days after 9/11 (i.e. on 9/19) on a Virgin Atlantic flight to London when the country was in such panic that there were only 15 people on a 747 (as a nice gesture Virgin promoted all of us to Upper Class that day :) ). I was patted down twice at the gate after having passed through the same deal at the security barrier. Such was the state of people's mind in the US then - and understandably so. I am glad we have recovered from that state of panic to the extent that we have. That day on the connecting flight from London to Kolkata (British Airways) there wasn't a single empty seat. So the panic was understandably mostly in the US.

Actually pre-9/11 already airport security was much more through and intrusive in most of the rest of the world, than it was in the US.Even though non-passengers were allowed in secure areas in airports like Singapore Changi, they had to go through a more thorough check at the security barrier than was the practice in the US back then. All that happened as a result of 9/11 is that the US system became more like the rest of the world was already experiencing. US came out of its denial and the state of mind that lived on the fantasy of exceptionalism. That's all that happened from my vantage point.
 
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9/11 changed the United States and the world and that's a fact we all have to live with in a way that's comfortable for us.As for me, that means no flying or going anywhere that entails submitting to overprotective security measures if I can help it.
The only reason 9/11 changed the world, is because we let it.
 
The point is, even if you are more equal than others you don't always get three beeps. That is why it is music. Being on the GEOS or NEXUS program makes it more likely that you will get that than if you qualify just for being an elite in FF programs, is what I have been reading in various travel forums.
Personally I think the Pre-Check based on GOES is more about doing the harassing in one concentrated interview once every five years and charging you for that pleasure rather than doing it for each trip. It is pretty much the way these things go. Anyone who is willing to shell out the $100 for applying for GOES and undergo the weird interview where false accusations are hurled at you sometimes, for you to defend and call the interviewer on it, can have the pleasure of hearing the three beeps most of the time. When you have to travel a lot you just gotta do what you gotta do to make it as tolerable as possible.

Being on those programs additionally makes the process of entering the country at airport CBP barriers a breeze too as an added bonus. One cost of doing all this is providing the biometrics to the same outfit one more time, beyond the several other times I have already provided it for gaining citizenship by naturalization. So I have much less of an objection to that part than one who is citizen by birth.
So a lot of harassment now, instead of little by little later, with no guarantee of any benefit?

Sounds like a pretty faustian bargain to me. Not to mention, how can you plan how early to arrive when you can't reliably expect whether or not you're "LLLucky" that day?

Not to mention that these kind of programs are often used to stifle dissent... people who are "LLLucky" to get through okay most of the time are less likely to object to anything, and risk losing their "LLLucky" status.
 
9/11 changed the United States and the world and that's a fact we all have to live with in a way that's comfortable for us.

As for me, that means no flying or going anywhere that entails submitting to overprotective security measures if I can help it.
The only reason 9/11 changed the world, is because we let it.
Amen. And that was the goal of UBL, killing people was a means to that goal, not the goal itself.
But we're pretty far afield from Amtrak and the TSA at CHI at this point...
 
So a lot of harassment now, instead of little by little later, with no guarantee of any benefit?

Sounds like a pretty faustian bargain to me. Not to mention, how can you plan how early to arrive when you can't reliably expect whether or not you're "LLLucky" that day?

Not to mention that these kind of programs are often used to stifle dissent... people who are "LLLucky" to get through okay most of the time are less likely to object to anything, and risk losing their "LLLucky" status.
Yes, all of that is true. Actually I plan assuming I will get through just like I also plan that I will most likely not have a 24 hour weather delay when I travel, and returning from abroad, I will get through the CBP barrier without a hassle. Sometimes, rarely, that expectation is not met. C'est la vie. There is no certainty in life anyway.
Those who have followed my postings in these forums know that I have been quite vocal in protesting the aspects of TSA madness that go beyond reasonableness. However, I will be darned if I will stop flying and traveling - both of which I (a) love, and (b) require as a part of my job and the state of distributedness of my family, because of that. I am happy for those that are able to avoid these things to make themselves happy. More power to them. :) But those choices are not conducive to my life at present.
 
Understood... I'm pretty fortunate in that while I'm in TX and most of my family is in NJ, my employer is fairly generous with vacation time, and to me it's worth the extra time it takes to take the train back and forth a couple of times a year to see them, and travel in a civilized manner (which is largely but not solely referring to the TSA "experience") while doing so.

As such, I've managed to avoid flying while not curtailing my usual travel the last few years, just by more careful planning and husbanding of time off (comp & vacation) to account for extra travel time. That being said, I'm overdue for a visit to the Home Office in Norway this fall, and unless AMTK steps on it with their tunnel to Europe, I'll likely be back in the not-so-friendly skies as a result.

But as I said upthread - until or unless one has had the "Private Room" experience, they've got no place to talk about "whiners". This dog and pony show costs a LOT more than people realize, in money, in the economy in general, and in dignity.
 
So a lot of harassment now, instead of little by little later, with no guarantee of any benefit?

Sounds like a pretty faustian bargain to me. Not to mention, how can you plan how early to arrive when you can't reliably expect whether or not you're "LLLucky" that day?

Not to mention that these kind of programs are often used to stifle dissent... people who are "LLLucky" to get through okay most of the time are less likely to object to anything, and risk losing their "LLLucky" status.
Yes, all of that is true. Actually I plan assuming I will get through just like I also plan that I will most likely not have a 24 hour weather delay when I travel, and returning from abroad, I will get through the CBP barrier without a hassle. Sometimes, rarely, that expectation is not met. C'est la vie. There is no certainty in life anyway.
Those who have followed my postings in these forums know that I have been quite vocal in protesting the aspects of TSA madness that go beyond reasonableness. However, I will be darned if I will stop flying and traveling - both of which I (a) love, and (b) require as a part of my job and the state of distributedness of my family, because of that. I am happy for those that are able to avoid these things to make themselves happy. More power to them. :) But those choices are not conducive to my life at present.

Couldn't agree more with Jis. If there were some way I could go on the kind of trips I do without flying, I'd do it in a heartbeat. But I only have so much vacation time from work, and traveling exclusively by train simply doesn't work for me. A typical Amtrak trip for me involves flying from Spokane to my uncle's. He lives between Bloomington and Champaign, IL. We then travel together on Amtrak. For instance, in August I am flying to Chicago, taking a shuttle bus to Bloomington, and departing the next day on the Texas Eagle to Los Angeles (hope Jim Hudson has the brass band and red carpet arranged for us at Austin! :lol: ) and then taking the Coast Starlight to Seattle. I then will fly back to Spokane from Seattle. Given time for an overnight in Los Angeles and a couple of nights in Seattle, I have just enough vacation time to do this. I couldn't do it if I took the train to Bloomington or Champaign, nor from Seattle to Spokane. And in September, for another Amtrak trip, just to mix things up a bit, my uncle is flying out to Spokane, and we are going to Washington DC by way of Spokane, Portland, Sacramento, and Chicago. We are spending a few days with a boyhood friend of mine, then both of us are flying back to our respective homes. That trip entails my taking a full week of vacation plus two personal days. I could not do it without flying home from Dulles to Spokane. I'd love to take Amtrak back, but simply do not have the time.

In the never-ending debate over flying Vs. Amtrak, one size does not fit all, no matter how some people try to portray it as such. I wish I could travel exclusively via Amtrak. It is just not feasible for the kind of trips I take. And I think I ought to be able to decide for myself whether I think the TSA is dehumanizing and humiliating. I personally think the whole TSA thing is mainly a gigantic PITA.
 
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