TSA Raids Austin Amtrak Station

[dlagrua]

In yet but another example of overzealous government involvement in our citizens lives;Federal TSA Agents along with APD officers used K-9's and other means to inspect baggage and trains at the Austin, TX Amtrak Station. They found NOTHING. What a surprise!
Read more here: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/20680202/vipr-team-searches-amtrak-station#ixzz2JTxippHr

This reminds me of WW2 Germany. I guess that we will all have to show our papers soon. Incredible!

 

[Ted Bell]

Getting more than a little tired of the TSA. As others have stated very eloquently on this site, why would "terrorists" pay for train tickets when there are thousands of grade crossings available for exploitation?

 

[PerRock]

TSA isn't expecting to find anything in these VIPR operations, the whole point is to show that they are doing it to deter criminals and terrorists from using the Railroads.

It's been said many times by various officials, that Amtrak has no plans to set up Airport-style security. If so it would be extremely expensive and difficult to set up. These TSA VIPR operations are really minimally obtrusive overall, they pop up for a day (usually not even a whole day) at a station and then are gone again.

I don't get this nations obsession with comparing anything proactive policing to WWII (and really the whole, 'show your papers' thing was technically Cold War Germany).

peter

 

[jsreeves]

The term "raid" is a bit much.

It was a random search and was up to the passengers to volunteer to be searched.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

It was a random search and was up to the passengers to volunteer to be searched.

Source?

I watched the whole dog and pony show and read every word and found absolutely nothing to back up your claim.

 

[jsreeves]

It was a random search and was up to the passengers to volunteer to be searched.

Source?

I watched the whole dog and pony show and read every word and found absolutely nothing to back up your claim.

Here ya go:



Of course, you might be allowed on the train if you do not consent. :unsure:

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

It is interesting all the TSA activity is taking place at Austin; do they have training camps or facilities there?

 

[Bob Dylan]

Since I live in Austin and ride the Eagles frequently, I am very Familiar with these Security Theater/Dog and Pony Shows! Austin has Battalions of LE Types made up of Various Local, State and Federal Agencies and they are always doing these "Practices" to show the Flag and make Us Feel Safer! I too Watched and Listened to the Video, and having been through Several of them, want to point out that the "Voluntary" Check wasn't Exactly Voluntary! You could opt out having your Luggage Sniffed by Fido and Showing your ID and Ticket to the Officers, but if so "Next train tomorrow @ 9:31AM!!! This was a total Waste of Time and Money, which We Paid for! <_<

The New Amtrak Police Chief in Washington needs to -re-instate/enforce the Old Chiefs Policy re TSA etc. in Amtrak Stations, but since she is a Washington "Lifer" don't Hold your Breath waiting for this to happen! :help:

 

[MikefromCrete]

An article in a recent National Geographic Traveler suggests that the name of TSA be changed to Aviation Transportation Security Authority and that its jurisdiction be restricted to airport security. Having TSA is charge of security at train and bus stations, highways, sporting events, etc., is just a waste of time. There are plenty of police and security forces that protect other means of transport and public gatherings. This is just a way of a bureaucratic organization attempting to expand its territory and budget.

 

[roadman3313]

Two weeks ago they had a team of about 12 TSA Inspectors and Amtrak Police at the Emeryville, CA Amtrak station according to the news. Most passengers seemed to be okay with it since they just swept through trains as they came through for the most part. Most passengers don't support additional screening though, however a visible presence was not generally objected to.

I personally don't mind security checks of the station area, but an increase in Amtrak Police would be more beneficial as the Officer we have now has a huge area to cover during his shift and only really has time to focus on 1-2 problem stations. He said he was going to K9 training school to hopefully get a K9 to assist him.

This is more so to help with the problems around the stations such as transients and panhandlers as well as reducing theft. I'm more concerned about those things than larger crimes such as those airports are concerned with.

 

[leemell]

[snip]

I don't get this nations obsession with comparing anything proactive policing to WWII (and really the whole, 'show your papers' thing was technically Cold War Germany).

peter

Not really. Anytime after about 1933, once the **** Party was in in power, papers were mandatory and could be checked anytime. The Cold War did not start until 1945 and the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe.

Edit: What is with the starring (****) of the German National Socialist Patry's abbrebiviated name?

 

[TimePeace]

Two words that come to mind are: mountain, molehill. Can I say them?

 

[Shortline]

Meh. It's largely a dog and pony show, and a waste of money, but who knows, it might deter someone from something. It's not just Austin, saw them on the platform at OKC my last trip, dog was just hanging out, didn't see anyone actually searched. Frankly, I'm surprised the bad guys haven't taken the train yet-One incident, and the whole system is shut down, and would probably mean the end of LD train travel. Thankfully, so far those wanting to do harm seem to have a propensity for tall buildings, and airliners. It is, in my opinion, only a matter of time, before we experience the types of events that have already occured in the middle east, and europe. The difference is, over there, they see Rail as a necessity, and they keep running.....how many trains outside CA and the NEC do you think will be running anywhere else in the country here? Then, the screaming that TSA should have done more to prevent it will be filling these pages.

 

[tomfuller]

My words will be "Cuff me or shoot me in the back if you want to. I'm getting on the train."

Just another reason Ray LaHood got fired. Congress could give the money to the Amtrak Police Department that the Thousands Standing Around gets for these shows of force.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

Two words that come to mind are: mountain, molehill. Can I say them?

What I love about your posts is that they're completely interchangeable from one thread to the next. Like a horoscope or a fortune cookie.

Then, the screaming that TSA should have done more to prevent it will be filling these pages.

I suppose the former TSA supporters might start screaming. If terrorism was actually preventable then you'd think at least one country would have figured out how to completely eradicate it by now. But none have. Not even police states like Saudi Arabia and North Korea. So far as I'm concerned it's simply not possible in modern times. When you have over seven billion potential martyrs with this much information interchange and freedom to travel the vectors to destruction are simply too numerous to fully anticipate and too expensive to protect against. There is simply no way to prevent all terrorism in a nation this influential, this large, this spread out, and this interconnected. Witness the still unresolved October 9, 1995 attack upon the Sunset Limited near Palo Verde, Arizona.

 

[JoeBas]

The New Amtrak Police Chief in Washington needs to -re-instate/enforce the Old Chiefs Policy re TSA etc. in Amtrak Stations, but since she is a Washington "Lifer" don't Hold your Breath waiting for this to happen! :help:

Meet the new boss. Not the same as the old boss.

 

[JoeBas]

Witness the still unresolved October 9, 1995 attack upon the Sunset Limited near Palo Verde, Arizona.

You know the saddest thing about that incident? If only someone had been around to grope the passengers and have dogs go through their bags, it never would have happened.

Oh wait...

 

[Alexandria Nick]

[snip]

I don't get this nations obsession with comparing anything proactive policing to WWII (and really the whole, 'show your papers' thing was technically Cold War Germany).

peter

Not really. Anytime after about 1933, once the **** Party was in in power, papers were mandatory and could be checked anytime. The Cold War did not start until 1945 and the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe.

Edit: What is with the starring (****) of the German National Socialist Patry's abbrebiviated name?

Its still ridiculous hyperbole that's offensive to people that survived that time.

There's an entire universe between "a dog sniffed at my luggage while I misinterpreted a TSA agent's disinterest as him looking at me like i'm guilty!" and "Alexandria Nick is secretly a ***** agent and has reported all of you for questioning the state. You'll be arrested without charge, tortured, and in a labor camp within 36 hours."

 

[leemell]

Two words that come to mind are: mountain, molehill. Can I say them?

This word has never been considered an explicative or dirty or even unsocial in an information context.

 

[KWBud]

It was a random search and was up to the passengers to volunteer to be searched.

Source?

I watched the whole dog and pony show and read every word and found absolutely nothing to back up your claim.

Here ya go:

If so, then is it really voluntary? Not in my opinion.

At one point, I was traveling and got caught in the Med Fly issue in California. I (somehow) got behind a Med Fly security zone and they would not let me leave without me consenting to a *voluntary* search of be belongings for fruit. I couldn't take a bus out of the area and I couldn't hitchhike out without consenting to a search. They were checking all cars leaving the area also.

Now, I suppose that I could have tried to walk past the checkpoints by going through back yards, but in effect, if I didn't consent to their search, I was constrained to stay within the security zone until they dropped it.

I probably could have taken them to court, but in the end, I relented on day 2 and rode the but out of that G*dforsaken He**hole. Yeah, I voluntarily submitted to the search.

--

Bud

 

[TVRM610]

[snip]

I don't get this nations obsession with comparing anything proactive policing to WWII (and really the whole, 'show your papers' thing was technically Cold War Germany).

peter

Not really. Anytime after about 1933, once the **** Party was in in power, papers were mandatory and could be checked anytime. The Cold War did not start until 1945 and the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe.

Edit: What is with the starring (****) of the German National Socialist Patry's abbrebiviated name?

Its still ridiculous hyperbole that's offensive to people that survived that time.

There's an entire universe between "a dog sniffed at my luggage while I misinterpreted a TSA agent's disinterest as him looking at me like i'm guilty!" and "Alexandria Nick is secretly a ***** agent and has reported all of you for questioning the state. You'll be arrested without charge, tortured, and in a labor camp within 36 hours."

I think anyone who actually survived that time would welcome the comparison so that we do not repeat history. We are not just talking about a dog sniffing luggage. But last week when I was on the Southwest Chief and the 2 guys one room across from me were searched and questioned twice by police for no reason at all... Things begin to get a little bit closer. Are we there yet? No. But everyday we get a little bit closer. I think it's important to compare.

 

[Anderson]

I'll say that I do not consider a procedure to be entirely "voluntary" when the potential consequence is denial of carriage. I will say that I don't necessarily resent a security presence at major stations like NYP or CHI, but that's more to deal with the transient/panhandler issue and other incidental crime than anything.

Of course, with that said, as much as I hate the TSA I also very much hope that the first Jihadi who tries to pull anything at a major station ends up with more holes in them than a line of political argumentation has these days...but I've got markedly more respect for the NYPD, Amtrak Police, and even the Guard/Army often put at NYP than I do for the TSA (which is to say that I do have respect for those non-TSA groups).

 

[BCL]

I'll say that I do not consider a procedure to be entirely "voluntary" when the potential consequence is denial of carriage. I will say that I don't necessarily resent a security presence at major stations like NYP or CHI, but that's more to deal with the transient/panhandler issue and other incidental crime than anything.
Of course, with that said, as much as I hate the TSA I also very much hope that the first Jihadi who tries to pull anything at a major station ends up with more holes in them than a line of political argumentation has these days...but I've got markedly more respect for the NYPD, Amtrak Police, and even the Guard/Army often put at NYP than I do for the TSA (which is to say that I do have respect for those non-TSA groups).

The issues is that a lot of people see regular TSA screeners as federalized security guards without the powers of arrest and with minimal training. Frankly that's true. Every time I heard stories of the TSA finding some sort of contraband, they've actually had to call in local law enforcement to make an arrest or confront someone belligerent. They actually have minimal powers to do anything other than operate the equipment and wave people through.

However, when anyone signs up to travel by Amtrak, one agrees to the conditions of carriage. Those include being searched at the discretion of an Amtrak employee. If you don't like those conditions, don't take Amtrak. It's pretty simple. If one doesn't want to leave a credit card deposit, don't rent a car. If you don't like the possibility of being either searched or denied boarding, don't take Amtrak. If you don't want to go through a metal detector and have your bags X-rayed, don't fly. It's pretty simple.

I've been to other countries where we went through metal detectors and sometimes had our bags X-rayed taking the bus or train. It frankly wasn't that big a deal.

 

[daveyb99]

In yet but another example of overzealous government involvement in our citizens lives;Federal TSA Agents along with APD officers used K-9's and other means to inspect baggage and trains at the Austin, TX Amtrak Station. They found NOTHING. What a surprise!Read more here: http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/20680202/vipr-team-searches-amtrak-station#ixzz2JTxippHr

This reminds me of WW2 Germany. I guess that we will all have to show our papers soon. Incredible!

A little on the adjective laden dramatic side, aren't you?

And how do you know they "found nothing'. There could have been many reasons they were there that day.

And maybe, just maybe, something did happen that you were not personally aware of.

Just get over it, and get over your lame "WW2 Germany" nonsense. Okay?

 

[Nathanael]

[snip]

I don't get this nations obsession with comparing anything proactive policing to WWII (and really the whole, 'show your papers' thing was technically Cold War Germany).

peter

Not really. Anytime after about 1933, once the **** Party was in in power, papers were mandatory and could be checked anytime. The Cold War did not start until 1945 and the Soviet Union occupied half of Europe.

Edit: What is with the starring (****) of the German National Socialist Patry's abbrebiviated name?

Its still ridiculous hyperbole that's offensive to people that survived that time.

Google "Maher Arar".

It's not hyperbole at all. This country is a much less efficient police state than Germany was -- more like Mussolini really -- but our government has been doing *very bad things* and getting away with it.