TSA Raids Austin Amtrak Station

[the_traveler]

I also have a Passport Card, but do not live near the border or have been out of the country in over 20 years.

 

[BCL]

This reminds me like last week on my NFL>NYP trip. I was innocently resting with my eyes closed and headphones in blasting music when someone forceful pushed me. I jumped up frightened as hell and looked over to see three guys in dark green uniforms start talking to me. I pulled my headphones out and said "huh?" The one guy very loudly said "WHAT COUNTRY ARE YOU FROM?" Caught off guard I choked and was like, "Austral...I mean, America, I think." How embarassing. I didn't know if they wanted to know where I was born or my coutry of citizenship. Needless to say, they asked for my papers cause of all my studdering. It turns out they were asking everyone on the train this question. I was just the only fool to make them question me.

Did you have your passport?

I just wonder what happens if they ask you this and you have no passport and they want to see your documentation. Because why would you bring your passport if you are going on a train trip solely within the US. I know I don't.

In my case I have an Enhanced Driver License; so they're done as soon as I show that. They can't ask me anymore questions once they see that.

But for others it could be a bigger problem.

My state doesn't issue them. I'd actually get one if I could. However, most US citizens can obtain a passport card valid for 10 years. The exception would be some citizens who have been denied passports for any number of reasons.

As I noted earlier, a US permanent resident is required by law to "carry" a green card.

 

[KrazyKoala]

There is no legal requirement that a US citizen (naturalized or not) must carry any form of identification, nor proof of citizenship. A US permanent resident of adult age is required to carry a green card. In order to take Amtrak, theoretically one only needs some form of identification to match the name. I have actually seen people bringing foreign passports to an Amtrak ticket window to provide their names.

Not just any form of ID, but a government issued ID, (ie, they will not accept College or work IDs) And everyone is required to have ID while on board the train. People from outside the country are required to use passport, not their country's driver's license. The passport will clearly say when they entered the USA, and for how long they are legally allowed to stay.

 

[BCL]

There is no legal requirement that a US citizen (naturalized or not) must carry any form of identification, nor proof of citizenship. A US permanent resident of adult age is required to carry a green card. In order to take Amtrak, theoretically one only needs some form of identification to match the name. I have actually seen people bringing foreign passports to an Amtrak ticket window to provide their names.

Not just any form of ID, but a government issued ID, (ie, they will not accept College or work IDs) And everyone is required to have ID while on board the train. People from outside the country are required to use passport, not their country's driver's license. The passport will clearly say when they entered the USA, and for how long they are legally allowed to stay.

They're not terribly clear. The official policy on the Amtrak website is that one photo ID issued by a "government authority" or two IDs including one gov't is sufficient. They specifically say photo student ID can be accepted. I thought they'd accept a student photo ID in addition to a SSN card or birth certificate. I wouldn't recommend carrying either but I guess it would work. The other day I did see a family picking up tickets where I noticed they had what looked like photocopies of birth certificates.
http://www.amtrak.com/passenger-identification

The only time I've been asked for ID for any dealings with Amtrak was when I requested an eVoucher in person. I've also never signed a 10-ride ticket nor been asked to do so.

 

[KrazyKoala]

There is no legal requirement that a US citizen (naturalized or not) must carry any form of identification, nor proof of citizenship. A US permanent resident of adult age is required to carry a green card. In order to take Amtrak, theoretically one only needs some form of identification to match the name. I have actually seen people bringing foreign passports to an Amtrak ticket window to provide their names.

Not just any form of ID, but a government issued ID, (ie, they will not accept College or work IDs) And everyone is required to have ID while on board the train. People from outside the country are required to use passport, not their country's driver's license. The passport will clearly say when they entered the USA, and for how long they are legally allowed to stay.

They're not terribly clear. The official policy on the Amtrak website is that one photo ID issued by a "government authority" or two IDs including one gov't is sufficient. They specifically say photo student ID can be accepted. I thought they'd accept a student photo ID in addition to a SSN card or birth certificate. I wouldn't recommend carrying either but I guess it would work. The other day I did see a family picking up tickets where I noticed they had what looked like photocopies of birth certificates.
http://www.amtrak.com/passenger-identification

The only time I've been asked for ID for any dealings with Amtrak was when I requested an eVoucher in person. I've also never signed a 10-ride ticket nor been asked to do so.

That's interesting. Because if you get stopped by police, they wont take a student ID. Mostly because they have students working in the office printing them! At least, in the case of needing to verify an accurate age. But then again, who's to say an illegal immigrant or someone hiding from authorities can't pay someone, especially a collage student, to print an ID with inaccurate information.

 

[MattW]

There is no legal requirement that a US citizen (naturalized or not) must carry any form of identification, nor proof of citizenship. A US permanent resident of adult age is required to carry a green card. In order to take Amtrak, theoretically one only needs some form of identification to match the name. I have actually seen people bringing foreign passports to an Amtrak ticket window to provide their names.

Not just any form of ID, but a government issued ID, (ie, they will not accept College or work IDs) And everyone is required to have ID while on board the train. People from outside the country are required to use passport, not their country's driver's license. The passport will clearly say when they entered the USA, and for how long they are legally allowed to stay.

They're not terribly clear. The official policy on the Amtrak website is that one photo ID issued by a "government authority" or two IDs including one gov't is sufficient. They specifically say photo student ID can be accepted. I thought they'd accept a student photo ID in addition to a SSN card or birth certificate. I wouldn't recommend carrying either but I guess it would work. The other day I did see a family picking up tickets where I noticed they had what looked like photocopies of birth certificates.
http://www.amtrak.com/passenger-identification

The only time I've been asked for ID for any dealings with Amtrak was when I requested an eVoucher in person. I've also never signed a 10-ride ticket nor been asked to do so.

That's interesting. Because if you get stopped by police, they wont take a student ID. Mostly because they have students working in the office printing them! At least, in the case of needing to verify an accurate age. But then again, who's to say an illegal immigrant or someone hiding from authorities can't pay someone, especially a collage student, to print an ID with inaccurate information.

If you get stopped by police (not on Amtrak), you're not required to carry physical ID anyway with the exception of Green Card holders as noted by others above (and possibly a few more rare cases like this).

 

[KrazyKoala]

We all know damn well if you tell a federal agent or local police that you don't wanna get searched, they'll detain you (not arrest you) which allows them to do an "On Body" search, and run your name for warrants and let you go. However, due to the patriot act, (Thanks Bush) they can detain you for an indefinent amount of time if they choose. Usually while one officer runs to a judge and tries to get search warrant for your bags. For those of you no familiar with "detaining" in most states it could be as bad as taking you into a station, putting you in the back of the squad car, or simply just cuffing you up and having you sit back down where you were. (Says the person who refused a search to check my bags, only because it was checked in and I lied about it containing food and breakable items...)

 

[BCL]

We all know damn well if you tell a federal agent or local police that you don't wanna get searched, they'll detain you (not arrest you) which allows them to do an "On Body" search, and run your name for warrants and let you go. However, due to the patriot act, (Thanks Bush) they can detain you for an indefinent amount of time if they choose. Usually while one officer runs to a judge and tries to get search warrant for your bags. For those of you no familiar with "detaining" in most states it could be as bad as taking you into a station, putting you in the back of the squad car, or simply just cuffing you up and having you sit back down where you were. (Says the person who refused a search to check my bags, only because it was checked in and I lied about it containing food and breakable items...)

Once I decided not to lie. I have brought stuff before and decided it would be better just to declare them rather than face the possibility of getting busted for not doing so. One was fresh abalone given by a family friend and just wrapped up in some paper napkins (didn't have a plastic bag available). The other was (I kid you not) three packets of Vegemite that a dining car attendant gave to me on a ride between Sydney and Melbourne. The Customs agent looked at the abalone and said it was fine. I don't think there's much risk that I was going to toss a dead abalone back into the sea out of pity (although I hear live Maine lobsters has become an invasive species in Europe because people tossed them in the ocean). As for the Vegemite, I didn't know how to describe it, so I said "yeast extract". When I showed the packets he looked at them and said "Oh - Vegemite. That's fine."

 

[BCL]

That's interesting. Because if you get stopped by police, they wont take a student ID. Mostly because they have students working in the office printing them! At least, in the case of needing to verify an accurate age. But then again, who's to say an illegal immigrant or someone hiding from authorities can't pay someone, especially a collage student, to print an ID with inaccurate information.

Police technically can't require anyone to produce ID. However, if someone is being arrested or cited, someone without ID may be detained and taken somewhere (i.e. police station) where identification can be determined through a database search.

Amtrak's requirement is that passengers carry some sort of photo ID in addition to one government issued document. They can be one and the same. I suppose it might be possible to procure a random real certified copy of a birth certificate and then have a fake student photo ID made to match the name. It would seem like a lot of trouble though. I thought that was allowed because a lot of younger kids who don't drive might not have an actual government issued photo ID. Amtrak has a requirement that children over 16 traveling alone (the minimum age to do so) must have ID available. Wasn't there also a case where there was a kid just under the age requirement, and the conductor made her get off the train?

 

[jis]

Wasn't there also a case where there was a kid just under the age requirement, and the conductor made her get off the train?

Oh no! Let's not get back to that again! That produced quite a long thread of yelling a screaming as I recall....

 

[Shanghai]

I think the TSA raided the Austin, Texas Amtrak Station looking for Jim Hudson!!

 

[Bob Dylan]

Dick: Oh no, I was out of town when the "Raid " went down ,so they Missed it by That Much!

And I'm no Lawyer but in Texas "Failure to Identify" when a LE Officer asks you is a Chargeable Felony Offense! If you Falsely ID yourself it's another Felony! That's called "Stacking" in Legal Circles, Some DAs and Cops Love to do this! :angry:

 

[BCL]

Dick: Oh no, I was out of town when the "Raid " went down ,so they Missed it by That Much! And I'm no Lawyer but in Texas "Failure to Identify" when a LE Officer asks you is a Chargeable Felony Offense! If you Falsely ID yourself it's another Felony! That's called "Stacking" in Legal Circles, Some DAs and Cops Love to do this! :angry:

There is no "failure to identify" here in California. However, there is a potential misdemeanor violation for giving a false name to a California peace officer. The other thing is that the definition of a "California peace officer" is specific. It would have to be a local or state law enforcement officer. The law spells out all the categories. Federal law enforcement are specifically not considered "California peace officers", including those otherwise authorized to enforce state laws via agreements with local law enforcement. These could be armed law enforcement from the National Park Service, Bureau of Land Management, or US Forest Service.

If you don't identify, they'll just haul you in to the local police station to conduct a check.

 

[white rabbitt]

no jim hudson was there when they raided

he was the guy with the big duffle bag filled with marijana

waiting to board but they missed him lol lol lol :giggle:

 

[Devil's Advocate]

I'm so glad we're spending all these billions we don't have to hunt down and incarcerate marijuana smokers with minimum sentences and three strikes to life. I feel so much safer watching the drug cartels reenact Al Capone style mayhem thanks to the blind ideology of modern prohibition.

 

[Old MM]

Here's the thing. "Security" when you're dealing with public transportation is an illusion, nothing more. If the terrorists are deterred by the prospect of TSA randomly checking things, then whatever. If it makes people feel safer, better for the travel industry, except that this illusion carries with it extra fees. Whether it's worth it or not is up for discussion. I don't think the TSA finds anything that didn't used to be discovered before. At least these dumb random checks are not overly annoying....yet. As someone else pointed out, if you don't like airport hassles and have a train option, great. Let's hope they don't ruin that! On Amtrak, thank God, you can still take your toothpaste and suntan lotion without fear of having all your toiletries, makeup and beverages confiscated during one of their random "checks." :unsure:

 

[KrazyKoala]

My god your right. I have one bag alone dedicated to toiletries. And although most are under the 100ml rule, I would need an entire package of pint-sized bags to put everything in.

 

[BCL]

My god your right. I have one bag alone dedicated to toiletries. And although most are under the 100ml rule, I would need an entire package of pint-sized bags to put everything in.

You're in luck. The TSA allows everyone up to a quart sized bag for air travel. :giggle:

 

[George Harris]

Just a comment: All this identify yourself everywhere with picture proof nonsense is of very recent vintage.

When I first got a driver's license, 53 years ago, they did not even have pictues. It was a piece of cardboard with name, gender, race, hair color, eye color, height, weight, and address. I do not remember whether it had birthday or age, but I think it was birthday. At that time anyone could catch a bus or train without identifying yourself. Catching a plane was not even on the realm of probabilities for us. You could ride a sleeping car for less, and pullman space was not in our budget, either. It was coach, bus, or don't go. Wtih one car per family, drive was not the usual option when only one person was traveling.

If you wanted to meet someone at the airport, which did happen a couple of times, you could walk out to the gate and watch them walk off the plane.

Back up another generation, and my father, uncle and grandfather got their driver's licences at the same time when the got a car, which would be about 1923, by going to the courthouse and paying $1.00 each, which was actually quite a bit of money at that time. No written test, no driving test, no proof of identity except their own word. (Neither of my parents had a birth certificate until they were adults. How do you think all these underage guys lied about their age and got in the military during WW1 and WW2? Most of them had no birth certificates. They were born at home and someone in the family wrote their name and date of birth in the front of the family Bible.)

 

[leemell]

In the early 50's when I got my first CA driver's license all of them had a finger print and that was in place for a long time before that.

 

[KrazyKoala]

Undercovers "raided" the California Zepher 5 today. Once again, caught off guard and started studdering and strange, I couldn't find my ID, my ticket, (which I just presented to the attendant 10 minutes prior, or my checked baggage tickets. Which I am very unorganized in the first place, but three men came to my room and flipped open wallets asking what was in my bags and if they were my bags, how much checked luggage I had, and if those were mine too. They searched through my two on-board bags (which I gave permission) and was asking if I had any guns or explosives. Then they wanted to know how much money I had on me which threw me off...I was like, I donno, $30? One agent said "oh, ok, so nothing over $10,000? You mind if we check?"

Kinda humorous. Anyways, after they were done with me, they moved to the next room and then the next. So I wasn't targeted...I did at one point start to panic and said "Is this because I left my luggage unattended for a short bit?" The agent said "Maybe, how long was it unattended for?" Well, 10 minutes max, I have four bags total and using one hand for a cane for my sprained ankle. No one at amtrak seems to want to be helpful so I had to drag my bags one at a time to the ticket counter...lol.

 

[KrazyKoala]

My god your right. I have one bag alone dedicated to toiletries. And although most are under the 100ml rule, I would need an entire package of pint-sized bags to put everything in.

You're in luck. The TSA allows everyone up to a quart sized bag for air travel. :giggle:

I think thats what I meant to say. But I'd need a box of 100 of those.

 

[BCL]

I remember the good old days. I used to wear a lanyard with my employee badge and a Swiss Army Classic knife. I walked to airport security, and after I put it in a tray and the screener looked at it and said, "OK - it's just a pocket knife" and waved me through after I passed through the metal detector.

 

[JoeBas]

"I remember the good old days. I used to get on a train, and go where I wanted to go, and nobody barged into my room and asked me to prove my innocence en route"

FIFY. HTH HAND.

 

[KrazyKoala]

Wow...really? How old are you? I remember 15 or more years ago, being a child, and having my bag raided cause it contained handcuffs.