The California Zephyr that's eastbound through Colorado today got a helping hand from a Union Pacific freight locomotive. Don't know what happened, I just found this video below. Do they still keep an Amtrak protect engine in Denver?
Union Pacific Leads Amtrak #6(17)
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Riverviewer
Train Attendant
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And a diner-lounge instead of an SSL.
Aloha
Forget when But the same happened to my ride on the Zephyr. There is a shot in my Zephyr Gallery
Forget when But the same happened to my ride on the Zephyr. There is a shot in my Zephyr Gallery
zepherdude
OBS Chief
Sure does look winterish up there. No snow yet, but, any day now. Brrrrrrrrrrrr!
Not very winterish at all. I am currently at my Colorado condo (elevation 9,600 feet) and daytime temps have been in the 60s for the last several days. No rain or snow expected before Wednesday, followed by at least another 3 sunny days with temps back into the 50s after the one-day divergence.
Swadian Hardcore
Engineer
That UP engine does look nice with the massive flag on the side. I love the industrial look of those freight locomotives, though I'm an EMD fan over GE.
Last time I rode the CZ, which was a few years ago, the protect engine was still based from Denver, I remember it was P42DC #166.
Last time I rode the CZ, which was a few years ago, the protect engine was still based from Denver, I remember it was P42DC #166.
Same thing happened to us in March of 2013. A large rock hit the wheel
on one of the engines as we were traveling through the Rocky Mountains.
We were 14 hours late in arriving EMY, and the UP engine was the lead
engine on our train.
on one of the engines as we were traveling through the Rocky Mountains.
We were 14 hours late in arriving EMY, and the UP engine was the lead
engine on our train.
William W.
Lead Service Attendant
How much of a delay do freight engine subs typically create? I know that they aren't geared to go 79 MPH.
battalion51
Engineer
Most freight engines are good for 70 MPH since that's what Intermodal trains are good for in some areas. So you lose approximately nine miles per hour, or about six seconds per mile. If you were traveling a distance of 100 miles it would take about 77 minutes at 79 MPH or 85 minutes at 70 MPH. The loses could be diminished though since you're not always traveling at maximum speed (speed restrictions, acceleration, etc.).
keelhauled
OBS Chief
Something in the back of my head says they're limited to 60, but I don't know for certain.
battalion51
Engineer
Keelhauled, this should help. Interior of a CN ES44DC, similar to the one used on 6-17.
O
Ocala Mike
Guest
I don't know about winterish in Colorado. but my son's family is visiting us this week from the SLC, UT area, and they informed us that they're going through the warmest October on record there.
keelhauled
OBS Chief
Well that'll teach me to trust the back of my head.
Acela150
Super Buff
Here's a question.. Do Amtrak crews run that UP unit or is it Unqualified Personal Crews..
That will most likely go over everyones head..
That will most likely go over everyones head..
offroad437
Service Attendant
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Usaly a up engineer runs it but Amtrak would have a engineer or conductor on brd too. As was the case when the train I was on had an issue and a freight had to help
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J
Jay
Guest
The question is one of territory.
If Amtk is detouring over UP tracks, UP says their own crews will run train.
If it's just a UP leader, I doubt there is any UP personnel on board.
If Amtk is detouring over UP tracks, UP says their own crews will run train.
If it's just a UP leader, I doubt there is any UP personnel on board.
Hytec
Lead Service Attendant
When a private car special with AMTRAK engines came down our KCS branch, it had an AMTRAK engineer with a KCS pilot.
One of my Amtrak engineer friends that works AUS-FTW was a transfer from UP and told me that he has run UP engines without a UP Pilot when the P-42s ( single engine on the Eagles) crap out but only on the regular Eagle Route!
When a re-route occurs like on the TAY-LVW Route a Pilot has to be in the engine even though he can run the engine!
When a re-route occurs like on the TAY-LVW Route a Pilot has to be in the engine even though he can run the engine!
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George K
Conductor
I would think the question is more than just territory - it's who owns the equipment. If you were the owner of a piece of machinery that's worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'm sure that you'd want one of your people on it, just to make sure that nothing goes wrong or unnoticed.
Would you let an unknown drive your Ferrari, even if his driving record were clean?
Didn't think so.
Of course, this is all just unwarranted speculation on my part. I have no idea what the rules and regs are.
Would you let an unknown drive your Ferrari, even if his driving record were clean?
Didn't think so.
Of course, this is all just unwarranted speculation on my part. I have no idea what the rules and regs are.
battalion51
Engineer
George, this sounds good in theory. However, railroads routinely share locomotives through mutual agreements. It's not uncommon to see multiple railroads engines together, sometimes thousands of miles away from their home railroad. Power run throughs can sometimes be the norm where engines continue on from one railroad to another on a priority train (like a UPS train).
It's unusual to see freight power on Amtrak trains because they lack the capability to create/pass through Head End Power and Communications from the passenger cars, not to mention the slower speeds they're restricted to. Most of Amtrak's locomotive engineers should be familiar with operating a freight type engine since they either 1: worked for a freight railroad before Amtrak or 2: have had to operate a switcher locomotive with a control stand similar to a freight engine. That's not to say ALL engineers will be comfortable behind the controls of a freight engine, but most would be able to get the train to Point B on their own.
George K
Conductor
Thanks for the insights. I had no idea. As I said, it's speculation on my part. :giggle:
I live about 2 blocks from the BNSF tracks as it rolls into Chicago, and, as you say, not unusual to see different roads together.
I had no idea about speed restrictions, power and communications (something I should have thought of, but didn't). I'm surprised at the potential differences between freight and passenger iron.
From what you say, I infer that the passenger cars are not all that autonomous (I can see communications as being important, but power?) Is that right?
I live about 2 blocks from the BNSF tracks as it rolls into Chicago, and, as you say, not unusual to see different roads together.
I had no idea about speed restrictions, power and communications (something I should have thought of, but didn't). I'm surprised at the potential differences between freight and passenger iron.
From what you say, I infer that the passenger cars are not all that autonomous (I can see communications as being important, but power?) Is that right?
I was in Car 0632 that trip.
The #6(17) slowed several times then stopped for a 'reboot'. Apparently, the lead engine was the problem. We continued to Grand Junction CO and waited there for a while. Within an hour, UP engine was hooked up and led the #6 all the way into CUS. The engine was not swapped in Denver, as speculated by some. Speed appeared to maintain less than 79 mph. The SCA indicated the Amtrak train crew was operating the UP equipment. I can't confirm that statement.
The #6(17) slowed several times then stopped for a 'reboot'. Apparently, the lead engine was the problem. We continued to Grand Junction CO and waited there for a while. Within an hour, UP engine was hooked up and led the #6 all the way into CUS. The engine was not swapped in Denver, as speculated by some. Speed appeared to maintain less than 79 mph. The SCA indicated the Amtrak train crew was operating the UP equipment. I can't confirm that statement.
battalion51
Engineer
Passenger cars are generally not autonomous at all. Some cars can be, but most of these are private cars or office cars that have generators on them so they don't NEED HEP.
However, a standard Amtrak car is reliant on the engine for HEP as the locomotive generates power for the train, as well as for the traction of the train. There are communications that pass between cars like PA signals, internal signals (buzzer), and brake system information that can be displayed on the screen in the locomotive. A freight engine though is not set up to receive communications from the passenger cars, nor is it set up to generate or pass through HEP. Every now and then you'll see a freight road office car train with one of its regular road diesels, and a passenger locomotive. The freight engine ALWAYS leads the passenger motor because it can't generate HEP. Things like the buzzer aren't needed on office car trains, so that's less of an issue. See a recent example below:
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