VIA Rail Canadian and the Canadians

[Northwestern]

Here is an update on schedule changes for the Rocky Mountaineer and Canadian, due to the Jasper and Jasper Park fires.

https://is.gd/Z5hTVb

[VANCOUVER, British Columbia — Rail excursion operator Rocky Mountaineer has rerouted passengers booked for its two itineraries that formerly terminated or originated in Jasper, Alberta, for the rest of the 2024 tour season. Meanwhile, VIA Rail Canada’s Canadian departing Toronto on Aug. 7 is tentatively slated to be the first train to pass through Jasper.]

I checked the latest regarding the Jasper Park Lodge. Apparently 4 buildings have fire damage but the rest of the buildings seem to be okay. One of the real highlights of the Rocky Mountaineer trip to Jasper is the ability to stay at the lodge.

 

[Harmon Shay]

Anybody know how much of the former Rocky Mountaineer Jasper traffic is diverting to Banff. I assume the North Vancouver-Quesnell-Jasper routing isn't operating either.

 

[zephyr17]

Anybody know how much of the former Rocky Mountaineer Jasper traffic is diverting to Banff. I assume the North Vancouver-Quesnell-Jasper routing isn't operating either.

It is operating Vancouver-Quesnel and then they bus passengers over to Kamloops for them to complete their experience on the Banff run. They've added some cars to the Banff train to accommodate the Quesnel passengers. They are rebooking the Jasper via Fraser River Canyon passengers onto the Banff trains, but it seems like they may be changing dates on them, it isn't clear. BTW, RM has pretty draconian refund policies. They basically don't do refunds, if you don't like what they've done, they'll give you a travel credit but no money.

I am pretty sure they have stopped sales of more tickets for the Jasper trains for the rest of the season, though.

 

[Harmon Shay]

It is operating Vancouver-Quesnel and then they bus passengers over to Kamloops for them to complete their experience on the Banff run. They've added some cars to the Banff train to accommodate the Quesnel passengers. They are rebooking the Jasper via Fraser River Canyon passengers onto the Banff trains, but it seems like they may be changing dates on them, it isn't clear. BTW, RM has pretty draconian refund policies. They basically don't do refunds, if you don't like what they've done, they'll give you a travel credit but no money.

I am pretty sure they have stopped sales of more tickets for the Jasper trains for the rest of the season, though.

Thanks for the info.

 

[zephyr17]

Update on VIA Canadian operations. They will start operating through between Toronto and Vancouver without a passenger stop in Jasper starting with 1(7) and 2(9). I do not know how they are going to handle the engineer change, fueling and servicing that normally takes place in Jasper. I imagine they could shift the fueling and crew change to Hinton, but Kamloops to Hinton might be pushing the hours of service, especially given the delays usually encountered on the Edson Sub.

 

[Fenu S]

The Fraser river is expected to surge from a landslide further up, hopefully it doesn't effect any rails along it.

 

[Urban Sky]

Update on VIA Canadian operations. They will start operating through between Toronto and Vancouver without a passenger stop in Jasper starting with 1(7) and 2(9). I do not know how they are going to handle the engineer change, fueling and servicing that normally takes place in Jasper. I imagine they could shift the fueling and crew change to Hinton, but Kamloops to Hinton might be pushing the hours of service, especially given the delays usually encountered on the Edson Sub.

Rumours have it that they plan to have crew changes in Hinton and Valemount:

Speaking with the Engineers going on duty at Kamloops North quoted "they will be working Kamloops North to Valemont, Jasper crew will work Valemont to Hinton for the foreseeable future there will be no stopping in Jasper under any circumstances.

https://groups.io/g/Canadian-Passenger-Rail/message/99199

 

[railiner]

Rumours have it that they plan to have crew changes in Hinton and Valemount:

https://groups.io/g/Canadian-Passenger-Rail/message/99199

Quite a sight I imagine, with 4 domes in the consist…

 

[zephyr17]

Quite a sight I imagine, with 4 domes in the consist…

Four domes is standard in the summer consist:
Baggage
Coaches
Economy Skyline
Manor Sleepers
First Sleeper Plus Skyline
First Diner
Manor Sleepers (crew sleeper in here somewhere)
Second Sleeper Plus Skyline
Second Diner
Prestige Chateaus
Park Sleeper/Dome/Obs.

Three domes in standard off season consist, just one Sleeper Plus Skyline.

 

[Fenu S]

Smoke from the Jasper Wildfire Complex, visible from the town, August 2 2024

Credit: Jasper National Park
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/vRWnw1fbpYwnxk4y/

 

[1976steve]

Update on VIA Canadian operations. They will start operating through between Toronto and Vancouver without a passenger stop in Jasper starting with 1(7) and 2(9). I do not know how they are going to handle the engineer change, fueling and servicing that normally takes place in Jasper. I imagine they could shift the fueling and crew change to Hinton, but Kamloops to Hinton might be pushing the hours of service, especially given the delays usually encountered on the Edson Sub.
View attachment 37376

It's possibly they may do a remote location crew swap, not sure if fuel could be done in same fashion I know it happens in other situations

 

[zephyr17]

It's possibly they may do a remote location crew swap, not sure if fuel could be done in same fashion I know it happens in other situations

At both Hinton and Verdemont Valemount the tracks are immediately adjacent to major provincial highways. I know getting a fuel truck to trainside at Hinton would not be problem. I am not sure, but I don't think it would be a significant issue at Verdemont Valemount either.

Access for crew changes wouldn't be a problem at either location.

 

[glensfallsse]

I ask this question by way of a story ...
I flew to Vancouver about two weeks ago for a long-awaited journey on The Canadian, taking the train end-to-end from Vancouver to Toronto. The train was cancelled due to wildfires. Almost half of Jasper (a key stop on that route) burned down. I understand, of course, that no train can run in those circumstances.
I got the cancellation email two days ahead of departure, while I was already in Vancouver. The email stated that "Passengers who would like to make their way to Edmonton and take the train from Edmonton to destination are asked to contact our Customer Center to modify their reservation and receive a refund for the unused portion of their trip."
During the long wait on the line to talk to Via Rail customer service, I booked a flight to Edmonton and got a hotel room. Once I got someone from Via Rail on the line, I was told the cost from Edmonton to Toronto would exceed what I paid for the original ticket from Vancouver. That sure seems to conflict with their email promising me a refund for the unused portion of the trip. The customer service representative checked with her supervisor and told me that the information she gave me was correct. I declined to do so, took the full refund, stayed a couple of nights in Edmonton and completed the trip on Air Canada. I would have much preferred to take the train, even if it was only from Edmonton.
So my question is, would Amtrak do the same thing to me? If I were, say, on the California Zepher to Chicago and they cancelled it from Emeryville to Salt Lake City, would they pick up the same ticket from SLC and issue a partial refund, or would they cut a new ticket and charge whatever the market bears? Of course I have no idea whether Amtrak would offer a refund for a portion of the trip, as Via Rail did. Someone must have had experience with this in the past -- (fortunately) I don't think I've ever had a long-distance trip with Amtrak cancelled.
Whenever the airlines have cancelled on me, they always got me to my destination on the next possible flight, with no change in fare based on the type of ticket I purchased. It's been a few years since an airline cancelled on me, so for all I know they've changed the way they operate, too.
Between the two extra air fares, the extra hotel rooms, meals and a rental in Edmonton, the vacation cost me about the same as the train trip would have cost, even with the full refund on the train ticket.

 

[Urban Sky]

At both Hinton and Verdemont the tracks are immediately adjacent to major provincial highways. I know getting a fuel truck to trainside at Hinton would not be problem. I am not sure, but I don't think it would be a significant issue at Verdemont, either.

There is no shortage of locations where refueling can take place. The Ocean does routinely 500 miles without refueling, so even Kamloops-Edmonton might be possible without refueling…

 

[west point]

At least it is not winter where VIA would want to keep the fuel tanks close to full.

 

[TheMalahat]

...post...

That is bizarre! I have read quite a few recent stories of pretty abysmal responses from Via, albeit to date mostly confined to the corridor.

Do I understand that they were saying in today's booking Edm-Tor would cost more, so you would get no money back? If that's the case, it seems insane and bordering on illegal? (The challenge being that I don't think there is actually any legislation that governs railway fares? I think, but am not sure, that it would be a civil issue)

 

[crescent-zephyr]

So my question is, would Amtrak do the same thing to me? If I were, say, on the California Zepher to Chicago and they cancelled it from Emeryville to Salt Lake City, would they pick up the same ticket from SLC and issue a partial refund, or would they cut a new ticket and charge whatever the market bears? Of course I have no idea whether Amtrak would offer a refund for a portion of the trip, as Via Rail did. Someone must have had experience with this in the past -- (fortunately) I don't think I've ever had a long-distance trip with Amtrak cancelled.

2 Summers ago I was booked in a Roomette on the Coast Starlight from LA to Emeryville - the entire train was cancelled, I can't remember why, but there was a last minute reason they had to cancel it. The next available train had roomettes sold out but they had a Bedroom Available and they upgraded me to the bedroom for no charge.

A little bit of a different situation, but many years ago a Silver Star got canceled for a snow storm - it was a reward redemption and the next available train was in a blackout date for rewards... but they were able to over ride that and get me booked.

Side note... I hope you had a nice time in Edmonton, I ended up staying there for a couple of days last year when I took the Canadian from Vancouver in Coach... I didn't want to do more than 1 night in coach and Edmonton had an international airport so it fit the bill - I really enjoyed my days in Edomont and visited the Fort Edmonton Park which was lovely.

 

[Cal]

2 Summers ago I was booked in a Roomette on the Coast Starlight from LA to Emeryville - the entire train was cancelled, I can't remember why, but there was a last minute reason they had to cancel it.

They were going to do scheduled maintenance on the coastline and detour over Tehachapi. But then the bridge burned down in northern California, so instead of having two enormous wrenches in the route, they cancelled it.

I too was booked on the Starlight during that time, ended up travelling in December instead.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

They were going to do scheduled maintenance on the coastline and detour over Tehachapi. But then the bridge burned down in northern California, so instead of having two enormous wrenches in the route, they cancelled it.

I too was booked on the Starlight during that time, ended up travelling in December instead.

I think this was a different time... this would have been 2 summers ago. If I had been originally booked on a Tehachapi detour I would have been foaming at the mouth (thats a reference to railfans = foamers for those that don't know haha).

This was just a day or 2 it was cancelled - I can't remember the details. I got an extra 2 days at Disneyland and a bedroom upgrade so I was happy! haha.

 

[Cal]

I think this was a different time... this would have been 2 summers ago. If I had been originally booked on a Tehachapi detour I would have been foaming at the mouth (thats a reference to railfans = foamers for those that don't know haha).

Hmmm I think that stuff happened in August. I don’t think Amtrak ever officially announced the detour because the bridge burned down before then. But very possible there were other service disruptions

 

[glensfallsse]

That is bizarre! I have read quite a few recent stories of pretty abysmal responses from Via, albeit to date mostly confined to the corridor.

Do I understand that they were saying in today's booking Edm-Tor would cost more, so you would get no money back? If that's the case, it seems insane and bordering on illegal? (The challenge being that I don't think there is actually any legislation that governs railway fares? I think, but am not sure, that it would be a civil issue)

Yes, the original fare, Vancouver to Toronto, was $2,094 -- I think I heard the agent say in passing that this was a promotional fare, though I don't remember it listing as such when I booked it. The fare they offered from Edmonton to Toronto was a bit more than that, not a lot more, maybe $100 more or so, but still higher than the original fare.
I doubt there would be a civil case here, since I voluntarily accepted the full refund. I had no choice really ... I needed the money so I could cobble together something that would get me back to my car in Toronto.

2 Summers ago I was booked in a Roomette on the Coast Starlight from LA to Emeryville - the entire train was cancelled, I can't remember why, but there was a last minute reason they had to cancel it. The next available train had roomettes sold out but they had a Bedroom Available and they upgraded me to the bedroom for no charge.

A little bit of a different situation, but many years ago a Silver Star got canceled for a snow storm - it was a reward redemption and the next available train was in a blackout date for rewards... but they were able to over ride that and get me booked.

Side note... I hope you had a nice time in Edmonton, I ended up staying there for a couple of days last year when I took the Canadian from Vancouver in Coach... I didn't want to do more than 1 night in coach and Edmonton had an international airport so it fit the bill - I really enjoyed my days in Edomont and visited the Fort Edmonton Park which was lovely.

This mirrors what's happened to me when airlines cancel a flight. Nobody worries about the class of service you are in; they try to get you there at the next available opportunity. You'd think that Via Rail would have been eager to have me board their train at Edmonton. I would have gone for it even if they offered only a small refund for the Vancouver-to-Edmonton portion.
I wrote Via Rail last week, but have yet to hear back. If I knew which Canadian agency oversaw the rail line, I might try them. I'm not interested in money at this point. I'd just like an explanation.
I did spend a couple of days in Edmonton doing not much of anything, other than watch the Elks get pounded by the Tiger-Cats.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

It's always interesting how people bash everything Amtrak does, but honestly they have always done their best to help me out when issues have come up. I can't remember when, but I know an agent on the phone once offered me an accessible room to accommodate me as well.. I changed the date on that one, cause I didn't want the ADA room - but the point is they have always tried to make things right and the only limitations were "hard" stops like the train is completely full, or it has been canceled by the host railroad etc.

 

[zephyr17]

That is strange and unexpected. A few years ago I had a Vancouver-Toronto trip scheduled. The train had been cut back to Winnipeg for months on end due to the Gogama oil train derailment and fire (CN built a shoofly around the burned bridge pretty quickly, but wouldn't allow VIA back until the line was fully restored). I had been following the situation and bought a full fare, refundable Winnipeg-Toronto WestJet ticket just in case service wasn't restored by the time of my trip. If it was restored, I could cancel WestJet for a full refund.

Well, it wasn't restored. While I had gotten notices from VIA they also told me again when I checked in at Vancouver that the train wasn't going through. At check in, they gave me the option of either cancelling for a full refund or riding to Winnipeg without onward transportation. Since I had Plan B in place, I told them I'd go ahead and go. Then they processed a refund for half my fare on the spot. The refund was for more than my WestJet ticket. So them charging more to stay on a truncated train is 180° opposite from what they did for me in a similar situation.

It was one of my better Canadian trips. The train was almost empty east of Jasper and the crew was great, hanging around with the few passengers chatting. I spent most of my waking hours in the railfan seat of the Park Car and I often had the dome completely to myself. I seem to recall on one of the standard radio calls stating passenger load at engineer changes that there were 11 passengers in sleepers.

 

[glensfallsse]

That is strange and unexpected. A few years ago I had a Vancouver-Toronto trip scheduled. The train had been cut back to Winnipeg for months on end due to the Gogama oil train derailment and fire (CN built a shoofly around the burned bridge pretty quickly, but wouldn't allow VIA back until the line was fully restored). I had been following the situation and bought a full fare, refundable Winnipeg-Toronto WestJet ticket just in case service wasn't restored by the time of my trip. If it was restored, I could cancel WestJet for a full refund.

Well, it wasn't restored. While I had gotten notices from VIA they also told me again when I checked in at Vancouver that the train wasn't going through. At check in, they gave me the option of either cancelling for a full refund or riding to Winnipeg without onward transportation. Since I had Plan B in place, I told them I'd go ahead and go. Then they processed a refund for half my fare on the spot. The refund was for more than my WestJet ticket. So them charging more to stay on a truncated train is 180° opposite from what they did for me in a similar situation.

I suspect this is computer/reservation issue. You were still getting on from the origin of your trip, so it was easy for agents to simply alter your reservation to end at Winnipeg and issue a refund for the remainder. My trip was cancelled from its origin to Edmonton, so the reservation system dumped the ticket and made the agents start from scratch.
The trip is gone, but I sure would like to know what happened.

 

[zephyr17]

I suspect this is computer/reservation issue. You were still getting on from the origin of your trip, so it was easy for agents to simply alter your reservation to end at Winnipeg and issue a refund for the remainder. My trip was cancelled from its origin to Edmonton, so the reservation system dumped the ticket and made the agents start from scratch.
The trip is gone, but I sure would like to know what happened.

You were having to depart from Edmonton, but were originally ticketed from Vancouver, right?

I think you may be right about possible wholesale cancellations from Vancouver so your reservation was shown as cancelled. There still would have been a record of it, though.

The email from VIA specifically stated your reservation could be modified with a partial refund. You did not initiate any cancellation. I know it is too late now, but I would have stayed on the phone, quoting the email and insisting to speak to the supervisor myself. I'd continue to argue, though politely and sticking to facts. Even now, I would contact VIA and demand a coherent explanation for their behavior and the conflicting information at the very least, even if there was no possibility of compensation. I would still be terminally pissed.

If it were Amtrak I'd chalk it up to incompetence or laziness on the agent's part. That's par for the course there, but it surprises me at VIA. But at Amtrak I'd sure as heck be on the phone with Customer Relations. I don't know if VIA has an equivalent.