VIA Rail Canadian and the Canadians

[glensfallsse]

You were having to depart from Edmonton, but were originally ticketed from Vancouver, right?

I think you may be right about possible wholesale cancellations from Vancouver so your reservation was shown as cancelled. There still would have been a record of it, though.

The email from VIA specifically stated your reservation could be modified with a partial refund. You did not initiate any cancellation. I know it is too late now, but I would have stayed on the phone, quoting the email and insisting to speak to the supervisor myself. I'd continue to argue, though politely and sticking to facts. Even now, I would contact VIA and demand a coherent explanation for their behavior and the conflicting information at the very least, even if there was no possibility of compensation. I would still be terminally pissed.

If it were Amtrak I'd chalk it up to incompetence or laziness on the agent's part. That's par for the course there, but it surprises me at VIA. But at Amtrak I'd sure as heck be on the phone with Customer Relations. I don't know if VIA has an equivalent.

That's correct, my original ticket was Vancouver to Toronto, then had hoped to catch the train at its revised start point in Edmonton.
I wrote an email to Via Rail customer service several days ago and have yet to hear back. I haven't pursued it any more aggressively because, frankly, it seems a little insensitive to be jumping up and down complaining about my ruined vacation when half the population of Jasper lost their homes.

 

[zephyr17]

I haven't pursued it any more aggressively because, frankly, it seems a little insensitive to be jumping up and down complaining about my ruined vacation when half the population of Jasper lost their homes.

Really two separate issues. VIA did not do what they said they'd do. The fact that the fire was the proximate cause of the disruption had nothing to do with VIA's subsequently dropping the ball in doing what their email said they'd do.

Following up and pressing VIA Customer Service will neither help nor hurt the impacted residents of Jasper, nor VIA's employees in the area. The VIA associates handling it are over a thousand miles away in Montreal. The only person being hurt in not assertively following up is you. It isn't a minor failure on their part and asserting yourself isn't being a "Karen" over a trivial issue.

 

[Fenu S]

According to the latest map released today, the station in Jasper has now been listed under "visible fire damage".

 

[crescent-zephyr]

If it were Amtrak I'd chalk it up to incompetence or laziness on the agent's part. That's par for the course there, but it surprises me at VIA.

Just my experience - but Amtrak agents on the phone have always been very accommodating and helpful when needing to reschedule. I've also never had an issue with an Amtrak Agent in person when asking to print tickets, etc. - In Vancouver the VIA Rail Agent refused to print me a ticket and told me he "wouldn't waste his ticket stock." He was extremely rude.

For the life of me I don't know why VIA gets put on some sort of pedestal - they don't deserve it. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my ride - lots of positives but just like Amtrak they have lots of problems too.

 

[PaTrainFan]

For the life of me I don't know why VIA gets put on some sort of pedestal - they don't deserve it. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my ride - lots of positives but just like Amtrak they have lots of problems too.

They don't deserve it because of one negative experience?

 

[crescent-zephyr]

They don't deserve it because of one negative experience?

No, in general they don't deserve it. In my opinion of course haha.

 

[zephyr17]

Just my experience - but Amtrak agents on the phone have always been very accommodating and helpful when needing to reschedule. I've also never had an issue with an Amtrak Agent in person when asking to print tickets, etc. - In Vancouver the VIA Rail Agent refused to print me a ticket and told me he "wouldn't waste his ticket stock." He was extremely rude.

For the life of me I don't know why VIA gets put on some sort of pedestal - they don't deserve it. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my ride - lots of positives but just like Amtrak they have lots of problems too.

I may have overstated. While I've never had a hostile or obviously lazy Amtrak phone agent (unlike onboard sometimes), I have had several less that fully competent ones. I have had to walk them through precisely what I wanted to do occasionally, and often they had to get another agent or supervisor to show them how to do it or to tell them it is okay. But they were always professional and reasonably friendly.

My suspicion is it was a combination of a computer foul up coupled with an inexperienced agent who couldn't undo it and a supervisor who couldn't be bothered. However, at VIA I usually transact my business on the VIA Preference number, rather that just the general customer service line, and that's the equivalent of Amtrak's AGR line. I've never had an incompetent AGR agent, perhaps there is a similar differential with Preference.

Finally, if, against all reason, it was indeed their policy, it was monumentally stupid. I've ridden the Canadian for years and the number of people boarding sleepers eastbound in Edmonton is usually pretty low. Not zero, but not many either. If they were cancelling all the Vancouver passengers and wouldn't reinstate them without purchasing a higher priced ticket, only having the Edmonton-originating passengers would mean the sleepers would have been very sparsely populated, at least until Winnipeg.. Maybe down to single digits, and they've been running 7 revenue Manors in Sleeper Plus this summer. That's a lot of capacity.

 

[jiml]

For the life of me I don't know why VIA gets put on some sort of pedestal - they don't deserve it. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy my ride - lots of positives but just like Amtrak they have lots of problems too.

That's a valid point. There is some novelty bias in VIA reporting and reviews, and service on the Canadian is the exception rather than the rule. Not every corridor trip is memorable for the right reasons and some station staff could upgrade their customer service skills. With a fairly extensive travel portfolio on both I'd rate them on par with Amtrak. That said, I've never had a "never again" trip on either - which is something I can't say about some airlines.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

That's a valid point. There is some novelty bias in VIA reporting and reviews, and service on the Canadian is the exception rather than the rule. Not every corridor trip is memorable for the right reasons and some station staff could upgrade their customer service skills. With a fairly extensive travel portfolio on both I'd rate them on par with Amtrak.

Agreed - I'd rate Amtrak and VIA pretty similar. The first time I rode the Canadian it was part of a grand circle trip and the next LD train was the Coast Starlight. At the time I thought the Starlight was better than the Canadian since the Parlor Car had as much charm and history as the Park Cars and it offered a second option for meals with "private" dining as well as the free wine tastings. Those days are gone, as well as unlimited access to the Park Car

 

[zephyr17]

Those days are gone, as well as unlimited access to the Park Car

One of the primary reasons I ride in the off season is all day access to the Park.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

One of the primary reasons I ride in the off season is all day access to the Park.

During the off season do they let coach passengers eat in the dining car? Years ago I was in sleeper and ate dinner with coach passengers (winter season) so I know they did at one time. On my recent coach trip I would have loved to eat in the Dining Car.

 

[zephyr17]

During the off season do they let coach passengers eat in the dining car? Years ago I was in sleeper and ate dinner with coach passengers (winter season) so I know they did at one time. On my recent coach trip I would have loved to eat in the Dining Car.

They used to, not any more though. That looks pretty permanent, too. I think it is unfortunate and wrong.

 

[railiner]

One of the primary reasons I ride in the off season is all day access to the Park.

I still don’t get the attraction of the Park car. Even though I had unlimited access to it as a Sleeper Plus passenger this past April, I much preferred riding in the Sleeper Plus Skyline car, which had no restrictions from the first three rows of its dome. In addition, it was closer to the Sleeper Plus sleepers, it had the “fun” activities conducted in it, it had a 24 hour snack and beverage station, and it rode better, not being at the end of the train. It was also right ahead of the diner.
If I had a Prestige accommodation, the Park car would be more convenient, but I still think I would prefer the Skyline…

 

[zephyr17]

I like being at the very end of the train, watching the long silver consist snake around. The third or fourth rows, depending on how many rows get reserved in the Park for Prestige, aren't bad. The Prestige Park refurbishment is much more recent than the Skylines and the Skylines are getting pretty tatty. I also enjoy relaxing in the Bullet Lounge as well as riding in the dome.

I don't particularly like most of the "activities" and when they are being held I usually take refuge in the Park or in my room. Both cars have snacks, coffee, and tea out and available 24 hours a day. Staffing hours are the same, although the Skylines have been generally unstaffed in the off-season the last few years. They brought back year-round Skyline staffing in 2023, but the attendant said it was considered "experimental", so I don't know if that will continue. I'll see this November.

Finally, since VIA "reversed" the the Skylines in 1983/84, there is not really a railfan seat, but tables at the front of the dome with the first pair of seats facing backwards. At night, with the stairs in front, far too much light comes up the through the stairwell, ruining viewing. As delivered, the Skylines ran long end forward with the stairs in back, the standard Budd design, until VIA decided to reverse them.

I love riding domes at night and no attendant I've encountered enforces the Prestige row restrictions at night. I am often the only person up there.

I'd estimate that I probably spend about 60% or 70% of my dome time in the Park, the remainder in the Skyline. A lot depends on which one has space. One thing I find weird is, at least in the off-season, it isn't unusual to find the Skyline packed and the Park relatively open.

 

[PaTrainFan]

I still don’t get the attraction of the Park car. Even though I had unlimited access to it as a Sleeper Plus passenger this past April, I much preferred riding in the Sleeper Plus Skyline car, which had no restrictions from the first three rows of its dome. In addition, it was closer to the Sleeper Plus sleepers, it had the “fun” activities conducted in it, it had a 24 hour snack and beverage station, and it rode better, not being at the end of the train. It was also right ahead of the diner.
If I had a Prestige accommodation, the Park car would be more convenient, but I still think I would prefer the Skyline…

To each, their own.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

I still don’t get the attraction of the Park car. Even though I had unlimited access to it as a Sleeper Plus passenger this past April, I much preferred riding in the Sleeper Plus Skyline car, which had no restrictions from the first three rows of its dome. In addition, it was closer to the Sleeper Plus sleepers, it had the “fun” activities conducted in it, it had a 24 hour snack and beverage station, and it rode better, not being at the end of the train. It was also right ahead of the diner.
If I had a Prestige accommodation, the Park car would be more convenient, but I still think I would prefer the Skyline…

Another benefit of being in coach (besides the $1,000 in my pocket!) was being in the front Skyline. I think it was the 4th car in the consist. I love seeing the signals drop! It took me back to a kid riding Amtrak's City of New Orleans and Capitol Limited!

 

[jpakala]

I still don’t get the attraction of the Park car. Even though I had unlimited access to it as a Sleeper Plus passenger this past April, I much preferred riding in the Sleeper Plus Skyline car, which had no restrictions from the first three rows of its dome. In addition, it was closer to the Sleeper Plus sleepers, it had the “fun” activities conducted in it, it had a 24 hour snack and beverage station, and it rode better, not being at the end of the train. It was also right ahead of the diner.
If I had a Prestige accommodation, the Park car would be more convenient, but I still think I would prefer the Skyline…

In the summer of 1967 when I rode the Canadian it of course had coach and first-class and the latter always had full access to the Park car. Based on photos I've seen, my problem with the other dome cars today is that there are tables, and so the front-most seats face backwards. That's also the case with the Branson, MO tourist attraction train which has multiple dome cars in the consist, but there are tables in them, so I sat at the front but had to twist around to look out at the train ahead. My wife sat across the table from me, so she faced forward, but essentially was in the third row.

 

[zephyr17]

Based on photos I've seen, my problem with the other dome cars today is that there are tables, and so the front-most seats face backwards.

Yep, VIA reversed those CP Skylines in the 1980s. They are using the same seats and anchor points, so there would be no leg room at all had that formerly rear row faced forward. So they put in those seats in backwards, into the same anchor points, the next row forward and put in a table between them. Thankfully, the rest of the rows are traditional dome seating, unlike most PV domes where they put in all tables.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Based on photos I've seen, my problem with the other dome cars today is that there are tables, and so the front-most seats face backwards.

This didn't really bother me last summer on the Canadian - when it's busy the front seat is taken anyways and when it's not busy I sat in the front forward facing seat (so there was a table and a backwards seat in front of me) and I could see great.

 

[railiner]

In the summer of 1967 when I rode the Canadian it of course had coach and first-class and the latter always had full access to the Park car. Based on photos I've seen, my problem with the other dome cars today is that there are tables, and so the front-most seats face backwards. That's also the case with the Branson, MO tourist attraction train which has multiple dome cars in the consist, but there are tables in them, so I sat at the front but had to twist around to look out at the train ahead. My wife sat across the table from me, so she faced forward, but essentially was in the third row.

The second row seats are actually in their original location…the first row seats that were reversed, have their backs against the bulkhead, and the tables are put in the space between them and the second row. The domes did not lose a row of seats as a result of the tables being added.

We sat in the second row seats, had use of the tables, and only rarely did anyone sit in the backward facing front row, all the way across.
So we enjoyed the “railfan view” most of the way.

 

[Cal]

I love riding domes at night and no attendant I've encountered enforces the Prestige row restrictions at night. I am often the only person up there.

Oh my goodness I will ABSOLUTELY be doing this. This past week on the Zephyr I was chilling in the SSL in the evening "enjoying" the sight of my own reflection. Being in the Park Car (and hopefully being able to see things -- even if shadows) sounds delightful.

 

[jiml]

Oh my goodness I will ABSOLUTELY be doing this. This past week on the Zephyr I was chilling in the SSL in the evening "enjoying" the sight of my own reflection. Being in the Park Car (and hopefully being able to see things -- even if shadows) sounds delightful.

It's people like you who will keep the "magic" of train travel alive long after us old folks are gone.

 

[Cal]

It's people like you who will keep the "magic" of train travel alive long after us old folks are gone.

It's just nice to sit down and enjoy the movement of the train, ideally with the lull of the horn in the background.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

Last summer the lights stayed on in the dome car all night in the coach section. Attendants said it was a new rule for safety. Not sure if that applies to the sleeper domes or not. Just FYI.

 

[glensfallsse]

I ask this question by way of a story ...
I flew to Vancouver about two weeks ago for a long-awaited journey on The Canadian, taking the train end-to-end from Vancouver to Toronto. The train was cancelled due to wildfires. Almost half of Jasper (a key stop on that route) burned down. I understand, of course, that no train can run in those circumstances.
I got the cancellation email two days ahead of departure, while I was already in Vancouver. The email stated that "Passengers who would like to make their way to Edmonton and take the train from Edmonton to destination are asked to contact our Customer Center to modify their reservation and receive a refund for the unused portion of their trip."
During the long wait on the line to talk to Via Rail customer service, I booked a flight to Edmonton and got a hotel room. Once I got someone from Via Rail on the line, I was told the cost from Edmonton to Toronto would exceed what I paid for the original ticket from Vancouver. That sure seems to conflict with their email promising me a refund for the unused portion of the trip. The customer service representative checked with her supervisor and told me that the information she gave me was correct. I declined to do so, took the full refund, stayed a couple of nights in Edmonton and completed the trip on Air Canada. I would have much preferred to take the train, even if it was only from Edmonton.
So my question is, would Amtrak do the same thing to me? If I were, say, on the California Zepher to Chicago and they cancelled it from Emeryville to Salt Lake City, would they pick up the same ticket from SLC and issue a partial refund, or would they cut a new ticket and charge whatever the market bears? Of course I have no idea whether Amtrak would offer a refund for a portion of the trip, as Via Rail did. Someone must have had experience with this in the past -- (fortunately) I don't think I've ever had a long-distance trip with Amtrak cancelled.
Whenever the airlines have cancelled on me, they always got me to my destination on the next possible flight, with no change in fare based on the type of ticket I purchased. It's been a few years since an airline cancelled on me, so for all I know they've changed the way they operate, too.
Between the two extra air fares, the extra hotel rooms, meals and a rental in Edmonton, the vacation cost me about the same as the train trip would have cost, even with the full refund on the train ticket.

I finally got a reply from Via Rail customer service. They apologized and said the agents got it wrong, and they will follow up with the appropriate manager. I guess that's just about the end of it.
One other note that's tangentially related to this subject, in case anybody ends up flying due to a canceled rail trip in Canada. Air Canada checks IDs during the boarding process. If you're a US citizen, you need your passport. They wouldn't let me use my enhanced license. Glad I stuck the passport in my bag at the last minute.