Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[JohannFarley]

Full restorations can often require most or all of the parts to be replaced with ones from other original sources like parts cars or custom-made. Lets use a car for example. If you do an off-body restoration of say a '64 1/2 mustang, and you need to replace 95% of the parts, is it only 5% mustang and 95% replica of a mustang, or a restored mustang with new pieces ready to serve a new life with new parts that allow a piece of history to operate once again?

 

[DSS&A]

Hi, Isaw 5 diners, a Heritage (converted passenger car) baggage car an a few other cars coupled together at the Chicago yard in a hospital train type consist yesterday. Two of the diners were the 8502 and 8558.

 

[KnightRail]

I'm not sure what part of "70 years old. Falling apart. Frames destroyed. Completely unredeemable." is so difficult to wrap ones head around.

Amen to this.

Liability is a big factor in regards to equipment being transferred to other parties, especially when it is not up to par. Best way to CYA, scrap it.

 

[ronkstevens]

I'll take a worn out 60 year old car to replace a worn out 90 year old car. I'd rather get an old dining car and work on that than have to build an entire kitchen car from scratch in a car that most likely is in worse condition than the Amtrak heritage fleet.

An excursion railroads needs and operating demands are considerably different than what these cars have been used for in their regular life.

As long as the cars can pass inspection then why not auction them off, with the minimum bid slightly above scrap price

 

[Ryan]

If they could pass inspection, they wouldn't be parked in CHI while 48/49 and 91/92 go without dining cars.

 

[ronkstevens]

I can have an automobile that can pass a safety inspection, but have no desire to take it on a trip because I know there will be problems.

There is a big difference between Amtrak's operations and the operations of an excursion railroad. For example, Amtrak can put 1000 miles on a car in two days. Excursion railroads are lucky if they see that kind of mileage in a year.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Full restorations can often require most or all of the parts to be replaced with ones from other original sources like parts cars or custom-made. Lets use a car for example. If you do an off-body restoration of say a '64 1/2 mustang, and you need to replace 95% of the parts, is it only 5% mustang and 95% replica of a mustang, or a restored mustang with new pieces ready to serve a new life with new parts that allow a piece of history to operate once again?

I guess it depends if the restored Heritage car can still pass the "all numbers matching" test. Otherwise, its simply a repli-car.

 

[dlagrua]

I believe that anything can be rebuilt/restored but the economics of the task may not present a positive picture. For instance you could just take an old car body and drop it onto a new frame having new trucks but is this an economical approach? Certainly VIA rail has a way to keep the vintage cars going so we can only wonder what method they are using.

At this point new Amtrak dining cars are badly needed on the Eastern routes ( and way overdue) so one can only wonder when they will be coming off the assembly line. Does anyone know what is causing the delay?

 

[Green Maned Lion]

(Mod, cancel my last post)

For the people who don't understand how VIA keeps there cars in good condition:

VIA has a fleet of Budd cars all built to the same spec, which are run 2-3 times a week on between one and 4 trains depending on the season.

Amtrak had a fleet of 20 cars since the mid 90s all of which were different- how different? From different fleets, built in different years, to totally different specs, several of which were not even built as diners. Maintaining that fleet is harder. Much harder.

Then you take that and have those cars running in a configuration of 15-16 of the 20 cars rolling on a train on a given day. That's a bit different.

Picture a Cadillac driven by Granny to the market a few times a month for 20 years. Now imagine a pickup truck driven an average of 50 miles a day to a construction site for hauling gravel- for 20 years.

Do you think one might be a candidate for reuse and one might not?

 

[prewarlionelrailfan]

Just got back to Atlanta on the Crescent #19 today. Both it and #20 Crescent on my way up to Washington two weeks ago had the old configuration, 1 baggage car, 2 view liners, 1 Heritage dinner, and the coach cars. Gone were the business coach, the cafe cars, and the microwaved meals. (thank goodness for the last item)

Strange how the business class just disappeared. Traffic in the dinner car was back to usual as well, just like old times.

BTW, thanks for the correction on my previous post. I totally mixed up the 19 & 20 numbers.

 

[GaSteve]

Just got back to Atlanta on the Crescent #19 today. Both it and #20 Crescent on my way up to Washington two weeks ago had the old configuration, 1 baggage car, 2 view liners, 1 Heritage dinner, and the coach cars. Gone were the business coach, the cafe cars, and the microwaved meals. (thank goodness for the last item)

Strange how the business class just disappeared. Traffic in the dinner car was back to usual as well, just like old times.

BTW, thanks for the correction on my previous post. I totally mixed up the 19 & 20 numbers.

Excuse me, but I was on 19/20 last Wed/Thurs 7/20&21 and the business class coach was definitely in the consist and was also present on the following two days confirmed by YouTube videos. As a matter of fact, the consist I was on included the 8400 Viewliner diner.

Take a look here:

 

[PVD]

Is it possible one of the "coach" cars was a split club/lounge? Those have B/C at one end and cafe car and tables in the rest of the car. Just asking because they still sell B/C on that train. You might not need a whole B/C coach, but the train is going to have a café/lounge in one form or another. Those 2+1 split cars are pretty comfortable.

 

[PaulM]

Do the BC people know that, and who's actually going to stop them since they are given full unrestricted access to the sleepers?

Sorry, but I certainly see them using the showers, and helping themselves to the sleeper's coffee, juice, bottled water.

They have to obtain a towel from the sleeping car attendant, don't they? If so, there's your control on who gets to use the shower.

Not true. Fresh towels are usually in the shower changing area, if and not usually stored in the luggage rack (superliner only of course). I've never had to ask for a towel. Or you could supply your own. I would have no qualms about using them. In all my travels, I've hardly ever waited for the shower.

I do think placing BC between the baggage car and sleepers a bit odd. Between sleepers and diner or coach and cafe seems more logical.

 

[west point]

Amtrak appears to be sidelining heritage diners as crack in structure are detected. Unless there was a national emergency do not believe that it would be liability prudent to keep them in service. We need to wonder if any of the last serviceable heritage diners will be sold. The sidelined ones will never be allowed to operate on Amtrak again. As well most freight RRs would not allowed any cars banned on Amtrak. As a thought what would any tourist RR what with banned diners ?

This poster wonders if some heritage bags were in as bad shape and only used because of no revenue passengers ? ?

EDIT it may some very diligent inspector found frame cracks in a diner and a push on inspecting others found more ? Sort of like the SEPTA equalizer cracks found on one car then almost all cars.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

Do the BC people know that, and who's actually going to stop them since they are given full unrestricted access to the sleepers?

Sorry, but I certainly see them using the showers, and helping themselves to the sleeper's coffee, juice, bottled water.

They have to obtain a towel from the sleeping car attendant, don't they? If so, there's your control on who gets to use the shower.

Not true. Fresh towels are usually in the shower changing area, if and not usually stored in the luggage rack (superliner only of course). I've never had to ask for a towel. Or you could supply your own. I would have no qualms about using them. In all my travels, I've hardly ever waited for the shower.

I do think placing BC between the baggage car and sleepers a bit odd. Between sleepers and diner or coach and cafe seems more logical.

On the Viewliners, I have always found the bath towels in the shower's changing area. There is a stack of clean towels, and a laundry bag for the dirty towels.

I think that's is a more logical consist. The sleeping cars would, again, would have access limited (restricted) to only sleep car passengers. Though, I don't see why the BC cars need to be so far separated to the coach passengers on the existing consists. Why not put the BC car between the dining car and lounge car? Is Amtrak worried about coach passengers walking thru the BC car might stop, and sit in an empty BC seat? Well, what's stopping a BC passenger walking thru the sleepers, and doing something similar (taking a nap in what they think is an empty roomette? Taking a shower?).

 

[neroden]

Structural cracks are repairable, but it's super expensive and rather slow. Even most railroad museums won't do it unless it's a particularly historic and valuable piece of equipment which is particularly worth running.

I'm sure some of the Heritage diners will be snapped up by excursion railroads and museums. Many of them may be so far gone structurally that even the excursion railroads would not want them.

According to NARP, Amtrak expects to see diners out of CAF by early September or possibly late August.

 

[Train2104]

NARP's latest newsletter: https://www.narprail.org/news/hotline/hotline-973-usdot-opens-new-bureau-fra-examines-rail-opportunities-in-texas-and-new-england-lawmakers-push-for-tsa-to-implement/

Structural cracks in Heritage diners, only 12 serviceable

New diners expected to be in service August/September

New sleepers expected to start entering service "in the fall"

 

[MikefromCrete]

NARP's latest newsletter: https://www.narprail.org/news/hotline/hotline-973-usdot-opens-new-bureau-fra-examines-rail-opportunities-in-texas-and-new-england-lawmakers-push-for-tsa-to-implement/

Structural cracks in Heritage diners, only 12 serviceable

New diners expected to be in service August/September

New sleepers expected to start entering service "in the fall"

Wow, for the first time in a long time, some actual dates for the delivery of the diners and sleepers. Let's hope this prediction is more accurate than previous "delivery dates."

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Captain we left for another galaxy ??? called Heritage cars ??

 

[jamesontheroad]

You've got to ask yourself a question - if you replace every single part on a railcar, such that none of the original 70 year old material is present, did you actually restore the car, or build a replica? Because that's pretty much what it would take.

A deep philosophical question, considered many years ago in the British TV comedy Only Fools and Horses. In one episode, local street sweeper Trigger receives an award from the mayor for long service (with the same broom).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUl6PooveJE

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

According to NARP, Amtrak expects to see diners out of CAF by early September or possibly late August.

2018? 2019?

 

[west point]

Would rather see the Heritage cars parted out. There are many heritage PV cars that we want to see continue in service. Probably Amtrak will require at some future time that all certified cars be examined for critical frame cracks.

 

[Karl1459]

I think the heritage diners were well past their service life at least 25 years ago. Most likely after that its been patches upon patches.

Maybe a tourist line that does not exceed 20mph might find some use but even then the bailing wire might break, the bubble gum stretch, or the duct tape tear. As a piece of original owner rolling stock they would have little or no historical value as too many modifications have happened. The only historical value is to show what junk Amtrak had to run in 2016.

Now if the Issac Walton Inn were to decide it wanted some deluxe "passenger car" cabins...

 

[tommylicious]

Rock on! Bring on the Viewliner II Diners!

 

[afigg]

Wow, for the first time in a long time, some actual dates for the delivery of the diners and sleepers. Let's hope this prediction is more accurate than previous "delivery dates."

The last reports/rumors on projected delivery dates of the first diner cars was for late May/June, that was in April IIRC. Now that we are passed mid-July, according to NARP, the first of the new diners should be ready for revenue service in August or early September. Hopefully, they are not stuck in a loop where the initial delivery and then revenue service dates are always 6 weeks or 2 months away.

Presumably the diner cars will have to be moved to Hialeah for inspection and acceptance tests and undergo test runs before they can be accepted into revenue service. To enter revenue service in August, wouldn't the first batch have to be moved to Hialeah soon?