Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[CCC1007]

This video posted today by YouTube user Monica Matos shows Annapolis on train #234 heading toward Penn Station this morning.

Southbound

 

[jis]

It is on its way to Hialeah today on 97.

 

[Acela150]

I've gotten into more then enough spats on Facebook with her about her videos.. She clearly is trespassing to get her video. There is no reason to trespass to get a photo or video..

 

[Dutchrailnut]

despite the fence being knocked down, she is clearly outside the fence line so get off your high horse.

 

[Acela150]

Someone who condones trespassing. Lovely.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

despite the fence being knocked down, she is clearly outside the fence line so get off your high horse.

But how did she get into that particular position? By boat?

 

[Dutchrailnut]

the waterline is outside the fence line how she got there is not your problem, innocent till proven guilty. so can we get back to viewliners. instead of playing inspector Clouseau ??

 

[railiner]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

The Espee 3/4 length dome lounges may have seemed to have an "18 foot atrium ceiling", but in reality, the glass dome was more like 11.5 feet above the standard height floor at the bar end, making them about 15.5 feet tall, overall...

Because they were converted from standard floor cars,

there was no lower level passage thru the cars like the full- length Budd and Pullman ones have. To pass thru the car, you had to climb around 4 or 5 steps up to the dome section, and then back down at the far end. There was just a crawl space for maintenance access between the real floor and the elevated dome platform...

 

[Seaboard92]

SP 3604 was last used on the Minnesota Zephyr in Stillwater. But has since been sold so I'll have to track it down. It was in operating shape.

If I remember correctly, the Minnesota Zephyr cars were bought by Iowa Pacific and moved to Colorado (as seen below).

It'll be interesting to see what Ed chooses to do with those cars and if he ever gets them restored to operation.

 

[Seaboard92]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

The Espee 3/4 length dome lounges may have seemed to have an "18 foot atrium ceiling", but in reality, the glass dome was more like 11.5 feet above the standard height floor at the bar end, making them about 15.5 feet tall, overall...Because they were converted from standard floor cars,

there was no lower level passage thru the cars like the full- length Budd and Pullman ones have. To pass thru the car, you had to climb around 4 or 5 steps up to the dome section, and then back down at the far end. There was just a crawl space for maintenance access between the real floor and the elevated dome platform...

Honestly I really want to see one come back to PV operation. They are bad for passengers who have trouble moving around but that atrium area seems very nice. They are rather odd cars being half Pullman Standard and half Budd. The actual car is from a 1937 Pullman order. And the dome is actually produced by Budd. So it's a funky little design.

 

[JohannFarley]

SP 3604 was last used on the Minnesota Zephyr in Stillwater. But has since been sold so I'll have to track it down. It was in operating shape.

If I remember correctly, the Minnesota Zephyr cars were bought by Iowa Pacific and moved to Colorado (as seen below).

Maybe he is trying to have enough cars to attempt taking over another amtrak route. Based on the baggage car, maybe a long(er) distance than the Hoosier State?

 

[railiner]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

The Espee 3/4 length dome lounges may have seemed to have an "18 foot atrium ceiling", but in reality, the glass dome was more like 11.5 feet above the standard height floor at the bar end, making them about 15.5 feet tall, overall...Because they were converted from standard floor cars,

there was no lower level passage thru the cars like the full- length Budd and Pullman ones have. To pass thru the car, you had to climb around 4 or 5 steps up to the dome section, and then back down at the far end. There was just a crawl space for maintenance access between the real floor and the elevated dome platform...

Honestly I really want to see one come back to PV operation. They are bad for passengers who have trouble moving around but that atrium area seems very nice. They are rather odd cars being half Pullman Standard and half Budd. The actual car is from a 1937 Pullman order. And the dome is actually produced by Budd. So it's a funky little design.

That was indeed a strange marriage...performed in the Espee's own Sacramento shops...The Budd Company shipped the dome components to the SP, to be attached to the Pullman-Standard carbodies...

 

[AlanB]

Someone who condones trespassing. Lovely.

I can assure you that Dutchrailnut doesn't condone trespassing! He's been a railroad man for many years and is well aware of all the carnage that has occurred on the tracks because people have trespassed.

 

[jis]

I've gotten into more then enough spats on Facebook with her about her videos.. She clearly is trespassing to get her video. There is no reason to trespass to get a photo or video..

There is a reason others don't take these tantrums of yours seriously. You decide something to be a fact often based on insufficient evidence and then go off all guns blazing. Specially in this case that area is accessible by walking along the river outside the fence. Perhaps a better approach is to have a friendly conversation to find out how she got there before blaming her of trespassing and blaming Dutch about condoning trespassing.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I've gotten into more then enough spats on Facebook with her about her videos.. She clearly is trespassing to get her video. There is no reason to trespass to get a photo or video..

There is a reason others don't take these tantrums of yours seriously. You decide something to be a fact often based on insufficient evidence and then go off all guns blazing. Specially in this case that area is accessible by walking along the river outside the fence. Perhaps a better approach is to have a friendly conversation to find out how she got there before blaming her of trespassing and blaming Dutch about condoning trespassing.

Thanks for letting us know that there is a path along the river. I wasn't doubting that she was not on the ROW when taking the video, but I was curious how she got there (did she walk across the tracks somewhere where she should not have been).

 

[jis]

Possibly Innwood Park or Fort Washington Park which have public access. The location is much closer to Fort Washington Park, which is located at where you see those colorful trees under the George Washington Bridge. Admittedly it is quite a walk and I am almost sure there is no demarcated walking train from there to this spot, but it is accessible on foot from there outside the railroad property line AFAICT, and hence doable.The riverfront all along the Hudson Line in general has public access except where the railroad buts up against the river. This is not a spot where it does so, as the fence line makes it evident.. Some access involves crossing the railroad tracks at grade at designated locations. I have hung around at various locations along the Hudson Line on the strip of land between the river and the tracks that is publicly accessible and have always gotten there completely legally.

Why the heck are we on poor Monica's case anyway? She takes great pictures and videos and is in general a law abiding person, at least until proven conclusively otherwise, not just based on an individual's hunch.

 

[PRR 60]

It is interesting how different the attitude is toward trespassing (or possible trespassing) when it done by a rail hobbiest as compared to just a Joe Schmo. One is praised for getting great videos and photos, and the other is a future Darwin Award candidate.

 

[PRR 60]

In all likelihood the video was taken from a location at this crossing located about 1.5 miles north of Bear Mountain Bridge. It is the only location that provides a match between the railroad curvature, the shoreline, and the background. If that is the case, then the video did not involve trespassing on railroad property.

 

[A Voice]

It is interesting how different the attitude is toward trespassing (or possible trespassing) when it done by a rail hobbiest as compared to just a Joe Schmo. One is praised for getting great videos and photos, and the other is a future Darwin Award candidate.

Both should be condemned for trespassing, however, the rail hobbyist in particular - much more than Joe Schmo - really ought to know better. Those with even just a personal interest in railroading should have a greater awareness of what can happen, and one would think, greater respect for the rules around railroad property. I suspect the average person is blissfully unaware that even crossing the tracks at other than a designated crossing is trespassing; They honestly see no harm in walking along the tracks just as they would a public road.

As for this video, based solely on what we see in the clip and with no other information, she actually did appear to be trespassing. A walk along the river looks difficult at best, I'm sure most people wouldn't bother (when there is this convenient right-of-way right there...). I'm relieved to hear otherwise.

 

[jis]

It is interesting how different the attitude is toward trespassing (or possible trespassing) when it done by a rail hobbiest as compared to just a Joe Schmo. One is praised for getting great videos and photos, and the other is a future Darwin Award candidate.

Do you feel that way? I don't see a difference. I think in both cases one should verify what one is bitching about before leveling insinuations against someone else, not just based on random guesswork about the terrain that people know little about.

There have been many cases where it was clearly established that a rail hobbyist was trespassing and was appropriately chastised for it. Actually in general Joe Schmoe trespassing is a more common problem because typically they are not aware of the rules of the game as much as rail hobbyists generally are. Indeed it is bad when someone knowingly trespasses as opposed to doing incidentally so.

 

[PVD]

I didn't look carefully at the location, but I know for sure Inwood-Hill Park sits between the r/o/w and the water. And there is a foot bridge that crosses the tracks mid park. I used to enter at the Dyckman St end and walk up, so I never used it, but I saw it all the time. There was (stil is) a roller hockey rink up there where I misspent many weekends. Brrrr. Amtrak didn't use that stretch back in those days.

 

[Steve4031]

Let's get back to the viewliner stuff. Maybe the mods could move the trespassing discussion to a separate thread.

 

[Seaboard92]

There are some heavyweights that have rounded roof and clerestory style on them. If you look at the Dover Harbor one side is rounded and the other is clerestory.

As far as cars the profiles in the streamliner era are very similar but there are some distinctions too. Pullman Standard vs Budd fluting doesn't quite match up. Budd fluting continued on the roof.

And as far as domes there is a uniform dome height. But there are exceptions to the rule for instance the B&O has low profile domes. Some had flat Windows and not rounded. The three car builders also had different methods of designing the car.

And then there are three different types of domes as well. There are vista domes which generally seat 24 and have a better 360 degree view. These are what VIA operates. Then there are 3/4 domes which were half Budd and half PS cars only used by the Southern Pacific. And they had an atrium with a 18 foot tall ceiling. And one is in operation in Panama. The last dime is a full dome which is a dome Over the entire car body. It's more like a superliner as far as viewing. This is what IP operates on the Hoosier State.

My source: I work on these cars as PVs.

The Espee 3/4 length dome lounges may have seemed to have an "18 foot atrium ceiling", but in reality, the glass dome was more like 11.5 feet above the standard height floor at the bar end, making them about 15.5 feet tall, overall...Because they were converted from standard floor cars,

there was no lower level passage thru the cars like the full- length Budd and Pullman ones have. To pass thru the car, you had to climb around 4 or 5 steps up to the dome section, and then back down at the far end. There was just a crawl space for maintenance access between the real floor and the elevated dome platform...

Honestly I really want to see one come back to PV operation. They are bad for passengers who have trouble moving around but that atrium area seems very nice. They are rather odd cars being half Pullman Standard and half Budd. The actual car is from a 1937 Pullman order. And the dome is actually produced by Budd. So it's a funky little design.

That was indeed a strange marriage...performed in the Espee's own Sacramento shops...The Budd Company shipped the dome components to the SP, to be attached to the Pullman-Standard carbodies...

Honestly I want to see one of these cars in person. And I hope he puts that dome in the excursion fleet.

 

[me_little_me]

Let's get back to the viewliner stuff. Maybe the mods could move the trespassing discussion to a separate thread.

Hear, hear!

 

[JohannFarley]

Any news on Annapolis' current position?