Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Acela150]

What's the fastest Amtrak train powered by a diesel?

For regular service, currently the Wolverines and Pere Marquettes running on parts of the 97 miles of Amtrak owned tracks in Indiana and Michigan. I expect that on the NEC when a P-42 is swapped for a electric locomotive from PHL-WAS or north of Westerly, RI, they might crank it to 110 mph. I believe the Empire corridor between Poughkeepsie and Schenectady is limited to 100 mph, but I could be wrong on that.

As for the Viewliner Is, it has been reported here that the plans are to upgrade the 50 Viewliner Is to 125 mph capability, if that is not already being done as the Viewliners sleepers go through their scheduled overhaul cycle.

I believe the existing Viewliners are 125mph capable. The constraint is that they all run with Heritage baggage cars that are limited to 110mph. The replacement of the Heritage baggage cars with Viewliners will lift that constraint.

The current VL's are limited to 110MPH. Heritage or No Heritage.

 

[AlanB]

While not true in this scenario, there are a few locations that utilize the L notation to show that the train stops primarily to discharge only, and may depart up to five minutes early.

The other nugget in all of this, is that in order to effectively increase the speeds of a train they will need a dedicated fleet of Viewliner II's allocated to them, unless Amtrak goes back to get the Viewliner I's upgraded to 125 mph standards (they are currently rated for 110 MPH). The only train that would be able to get away with interchangeable Viewliner I's and II's is the LSL, since it's restricted to 110 MPH because of the AC-DMs, MNRR, etc. But for the trains where the vast majority of the fleet is used (Silver Service, Crescent, Cardinal) you can't change the timetable without the upgrade to the I's. Sure, if you can get a consist together that will allow you to move at that clip they'll likely open the throttle up and run it at 125.

The benefit that most are forgetting is that an all Amfleet and Viewliner fleet will mean the Engineers will be able to run blended braking on these trains. You're not supposed to (emphasis on the word supposed) run blended braking on a train that has Heritage more than one Heritage in the consist (IIRC). Blended braking means a better ride for the passengers, and a few seconds saved on the station stops, curves, and slow orders.

What's the fastest Amtrak train powered by a diesel?

Amtrak's P42's have a maximum rated speed of 110 MPH, so assuming that the cars being pulled don't limit things, then diesel hauled trains would max out at 110 MPH assuming that the track permits it.

 

[TCRT]

I recall seeing

on youtube, which would appear to show a P42 running at 110mph on the Keystone, for example.

 

[Acela150]

I recall seeing

That's pretty much the only place in the Country where P42's and P40's can hit 110MPH. Although I don't know if they can actually hit 110MPH.

 

[AlanB]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

 

[NE933]

May I kindly request Alan B. to remove the erroneous subject line of this thread which says "...delivery is delayed until 2013...". This will cause a reader discouragement and is a faithkiller, something we need less of and not more.

There is no delay so far. The first VII's will roll out near the end of this year for testing, then, will enter revenue services 1st quarter 2013. that has been the plan all along.

Thank you.

 

[Peter KG6LSE]

Off topic a *** bit .. but MAN that thing was Hauling Rear .. I need to get some mileage on that train ASAP ! ..

and I thought 90 on the SWC was a trip .. Oh baby !

Iam sorry but to see a non NEC train hit triple digits makes me all happy inside ..

 

 

 

[Acela150]

May I kindly request Alan B. to remove the erroneous subject line of this thread which says "...delivery is delayed until 2013...". This will cause a reader discouragement and is a faithkiller, something we need less of and not more.

There is no delay so far. The first VII's will roll out near the end of this year for testing, then, will enter revenue services 1st quarter 2013. that has been the plan all along.

Thank you.

I know you didn't read the article.. If you did you would see that CAF delayed the first delivery so they could get several cars out at once instead of just one.

If you can prove that the article in the OP is a joke and a lie feel free to enlighten us on why not.

 

[Acela150]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

I was never able to get behind P40/42's on the NEC south of PHL.

Why did they change power at PHL? I can't remember. Wasn't it something about power shortages?? Not to mention if this was the reason wasn't this in the peak of the AEM-7 reman project?? Which made the shortages worse. They had about 2 or 3 out for Reman at a time IIRC.

 

[jis]

I recall seeing

As I recall, Paradise PA is not quite 110mph territory given the curves to the east. It is probably 90, maybe 100, but I could be wrong of course since I don't have an employee TT in front of me.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

Is there any press release for the 110 service starting in Michigan? I'd like to post it on my own site.

 

[Mackensen]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

Is there any press release for the 110 service starting in Michigan? I'd like to post it on my own site.

Here.

 

[NE933]

May I kindly request Alan B. to remove the erroneous subject line of this thread which says "...delivery is delayed until 2013...". This will cause a reader discouragement and is a faithkiller, something we need less of and not more.

There is no delay so far. The first VII's will roll out near the end of this year for testing, then, will enter revenue services 1st quarter 2013. that has been the plan all along.

Thank you.

I know you didn't read the article.. If you did you would see that CAF delayed the first delivery so they could get several cars out at once instead of just one.

If you can prove that the article in the OP is a joke and a lie feel free to enlighten us on why not.

No. You, kindly summon the specific citations of the Amtrak press release and compare them to the article, then I'll re-read the article, and one of us will enlighten the other after but not before the last qualifying thread.

 

[Acela150]

May I kindly request Alan B. to remove the erroneous subject line of this thread which says "...delivery is delayed until 2013...". This will cause a reader discouragement and is a faithkiller, something we need less of and not more.

There is no delay so far. The first VII's will roll out near the end of this year for testing, then, will enter revenue services 1st quarter 2013. that has been the plan all along.

Thank you.

I know you didn't read the article.. If you did you would see that CAF delayed the first delivery so they could get several cars out at once instead of just one.

If you can prove that the article in the OP is a joke and a lie feel free to enlighten us on why not.

No. You, kindly summon the specific citations of the Amtrak press release and compare them to the article, then I'll re-read the article, and one of us will enlighten the other after but not before the last qualifying thread.

Overall CAF has the final say on when cars are delivered. They're building them not Amtrak. I'm sure CAF conferred with Amtrak on this and Amtrak might have agreed with CAF. I would prefer a set of cars then just one car if I were in Joe Boardman's shoes. If that lone diner shows up at Penn Coach Yard in October then Amtrak was right. If they start showing up in 2013 then there's the proof that CAF is correct.

 

[Oldsmoboi]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

Is there any press release for the 110 service starting in Michigan? I'd like to post it on my own site.

Here.

Thank you, I help to get the word out as well on my site with my automotive readership (we're Detroit/Michigan focused) http://www.cheersandgears.com/page/index.html/_/articles/industry-news/michigan-gains-higher-speed-rail-service-r383

 

[jis]

I may be totally wrong about this, but I thought the confusion was mostly about whether the 2013 referred to calendar year 2013 or FY 2013. The latter would still place the first deliveries in calendar year 2012. Frankly I don't know the answer and 3 months this way or that probably does not matter that much. The early deliveries will be out testing and certifying for several months anyway before anything goes into service. It took NJT over 4 months from first delivery to first in service for the MLVs for example.

 

[NE933]

I may be totally wrong about this, but I thought the confusion was mostly about whether the 2013 referred to calendar year 2013 or FY 2013. The latter would still place the first deliveries in calendar year 2012. Frankly I don't know the answer and 3 months this way or that probably does not matter that much. The early deliveries will be out testing and certifying for several months anyway before anything goes into service. It took NJT over 4 months from first delivery to first in service for the MLVs for example.

That is the confusion I was talking about.

 

[afigg]

I may be totally wrong about this, but I thought the confusion was mostly about whether the 2013 referred to calendar year 2013 or FY 2013. The latter would still place the first deliveries in calendar year 2012. Frankly I don't know the answer and 3 months this way or that probably does not matter that much. The early deliveries will be out testing and certifying for several months anyway before anything goes into service. It took NJT over 4 months from first delivery to first in service for the MLVs for example.

That is the confusion I was talking about.

Or the confusion could be that the first unit is to be delivered for initial testing, including being sent to Colorado for FRA trials, in October, but that the first batch of multiple units is scheduled for delivery after the first of the year. On the other hands, schedules and Gannt charts are made to be slipped.

 

[AlanB]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

I was never able to get behind P40/42's on the NEC south of PHL.

Why did they change power at PHL? I can't remember. Wasn't it something about power shortages?? Not to mention if this was the reason wasn't this in the peak of the AEM-7 reman project?? Which made the shortages worse. They had about 2 or 3 out for Reman at a time IIRC.

There was a period in time back as the E60's were on their way out and the HHP-8's where just getting started and during that same point Amtrak was dealing with the Express Trak freight business. The AEM-7's couldn't handle the assignments because, IIRC, they could not communicate with FRED (Flashing Rear End Detector) that had to be used with the freight cars. So only the new HHP-8's which were having break-in problems and the aging E60's could pull trains on the NEC with freight on the bottom.

So Amtrak in an effort to reduce the number of miles being put on the E60's would have them haul trains from NYP down to PHL. Then since Philly was already adding freight cars to the rear, they'd also cut off the E60 and pop on the P40/P42's needed for the rest of the journey.

 

[Acela150]

I've been behind P42's on the NEC back when for a while they were changing the LD and other trains going beyond DC engines in Philly, running electric only between NY & PHL. We did 110 MPH. And the engines are rated for that.

Also as of last week, they're now doing 110MPH out in Michigan.

I was never able to get behind P40/42's on the NEC south of PHL.

Why did they change power at PHL? I can't remember. Wasn't it something about power shortages?? Not to mention if this was the reason wasn't this in the peak of the AEM-7 reman project?? Which made the shortages worse. They had about 2 or 3 out for Reman at a time IIRC.

There was a period in time back as the E60's were on their way out and the HHP-8's where just getting started and during that same point Amtrak was dealing with the Express Trak freight business. The AEM-7's couldn't handle the assignments because, IIRC, they could not communicate with FRED (Flashing Rear End Detector) that had to be used with the freight cars. So only the new HHP-8's which were having break-in problems and the aging E60's could pull trains on the NEC with freight on the bottom.

So Amtrak in an effort to reduce the number of miles being put on the E60's would have them haul trains from NYP down to PHL. Then since Philly was already adding freight cars to the rear, they'd also cut off the E60 and pop on the P40/P42's needed for the rest of the journey.

I knew it had to do with Power Shortages but I had forgot about the Expresstraks. I didn't realize that the Reefers used Freddy.

 

[dlagrua]

Since 2013 is now here; its time to bring this topic back up to the top. I realize that the Viewliner II order is behind schedule but has anyone heard when the first units will go into service? IIRC the diners and baggage cars were due off the production line first. I just wonder if these cars will make their debut at NTD. That would be a fitting introduction.

Comments?

 

[PRR 60]

Since 2013 is now here; its time to bring this topic back up to the top. I realize that the Viewliner II order is behind schedule but has anyone heard when the first units will go into service? IIRC the diners and baggage cars were due off the production line first. I just wonder if these cars will make their debut at NTD. That would be a fitting introduction.Comments?

Having the new cars in service will likely not happen until early 2014.

The first prototype cars for testing are scheduled out late spring this year. Assuming the testing program finds nothing that requires major redesign, the first production cars should begin arriving in late this year or early 2014. The order should be fully delivered in 2015.

 

[Nathanael]

Sometime in the last year, we found out that Amtrak is planning to get one of each type delivered for testing and validation (etc) before getting the rest delivered.

I believe Amtrak is still anticipating putting those four cars into service sometime late in the 2013 calendar year, assuming there's nothing wrong with them -- perhaps around October. This is about a year's delay versus the original plan, which informed speculation says was related to difficulty on CAF's part finding welders who knew how to work with stainless steel.

I'm quite certain Amtrak will put cars into service as soon as they're delivered and tested, rather than waiting until they have a whole bunch. From Amtrak's point of view, they need relief for the crumbling Heritage fleet ASAP. Consider that Amtrak actually deployed the 8400 prototype diner, which would not have been normal practice. At the moment it's just a question of when CAF delivers the "first four" cars, and how long Amtrak and the FRA take testing them. They've been extremely quiet about it so there's really no way to tell -- they could announce delivery as early as March or much later.

 

[jis]

What I have heard from usually reliable sources is that the delivery of the cars for test and certification will be in Fall 2013, with service entry most likely in early 2014. But of course only time will tell what actually happens.

 

[AlanB]

I'm quite certain Amtrak will put cars into service as soon as they're delivered and tested, rather than waiting until they have a whole bunch. From Amtrak's point of view, they need relief for the crumbling Heritage fleet ASAP. Consider that Amtrak actually deployed the 8400 prototype diner, which would not have been normal practice.

Part of the reason for deploying 8400 was to ease the strain on the remaining Heritage diners a bit, not that one car does too much in that area.

But the bigger reason for deploying it was to ensure that the fiasco of 8400's first iteration was not repeated. Amtrak wanted the crews to actually work this car so as to ensure that the kitchen layout was smartly designed from the view of the people who actually have to work the car, rather than the view of the designer who was only concerned with fitting everything into the space allotted and not with practicality. They wanted to be sure that they got it right this time, and before they had 25 cars with failed designs out on the road.

In the first iteration of 8400 we had such wonderful things as the SA's needing to walk behind the cook at the grill making french toast or an omelet to get a glass of orange juice. From what I've heard from a few crews, while there are a few minor annoyances, by and large they got it right this time.

While I've heard no mention of such a plan; it would not surprise me at all that if Amtrak goes ahead with the plan to buy all new modules for the existing 50 sleepers as a way to refurbish them, that they actually buy 51 sets of modules and return sleeper 62091 (aka 2300) to service also.

The other original prototype sleeper 2300 is far too gone to ever be brought back. It resides in Wilmington where it continues to be used as a mock up for possible cafe cars and coaches.