Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Amtrak Cajun]

Well, at least they can get some good use out of the car as a mockup car.

 

[dlagrua]

The last report that I've heard stated delivery of the Viewliner II's beginning in Q1 13. Here we are at the end of Q2 and we should be getting close. Time for discussion to begin again. Anyone hear anything?

 

[user 1215]

Last time you brought that up, wasn't the concensus that the earliest we would see the Viewliner IIs would be October, but early 2014 was more realistic?

 

[dlagrua]

We are now at the end of Q2 13. Time for discussion to begin again. Anyone hear anything?

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

The last report that I've heard stated delivery of the Viewliner II's beginning in Q1 13. Here we are at the end of Q2 and we should be getting close. Time for discussion to begin again. Anyone hear anything?

We are now at the end of Q2 13. Time for discussion to begin again. Anyone hear anything?

Last time you brought that up, wasn't the concensus that the earliest we would see the Viewliner IIs would be October, but early 2014 was more realistic?

I agree with VentureForth.

 

[user 1215]

Here is a reference from CAF: http://www.caf.es/en/productos-servicios/proyectos/proyecto-detalle.php?p=189 stating simply "2014".

Now I would like to know why the long delays. If I know anything about manufacturing, estimates are always early (bad for the supplier) and the customer always wants changes (bad for the customer). Both push schedules to the right...

 

[Nebulous Abyss]

Why do you suppose the matter is kept so opaque? No pictures of semi completed cars, so explanation of delays, no factory views of the new interrior rooms... arn't WE railfans the best costomers Amtrak and CAF have? Shouldn't we be sold some SIZZLE!?!?!? Where's the excitment, the salesmanship?

I get inundated with American Airlines commercials every time I turn on Bloomburg.... and I doubt any of that stuff about new roomier planes is true anyway. The new viewliners howeve seem to have real potential, but what is up with all the secrecy. Sell the sizzle, sell the new cars, and sell out the tickets!

Ok, I'll settle down now... play the chirping crickets.

 

[Ryan]

Couple issues with that.

1) We've seen pictures of semi completed cars.

2) We've seen pictures of the new interiors.

3) What good would promotion do now? It's not possible to buy a ticket today to ride a train that will have one of these cars.

 

[dlagrua]

We will see no Viewliner II's in 2013. Per the CAF website, delivery is now in 2014. That probably means 12/20//14 just in time for Christmas. If it keeps going like this why before you know it delivery will be 2015.

 

[afigg]

We will see no Viewliner II's in 2013. Per the CAF website, delivery is now in 2014. That probably means 12/20//14 just in time for Christmas. If it keeps going like this why before you know it delivery will be 2015.

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release: "The delivery of the first four of the eight test pilot cars are due late in 2013 with the first units expected to be placed into service late spring 2014."

The first 4 cars may be turned over to Amtrak late in 2013, but the ramp-up of production to begin to deliver cars for revenue service would be 2014. depends on how "delivery" is defined. Of course, if a problem is found during the testing of the first 4 units, the production run would be delayed.

On the other hand, if the FY2014 funding from Congress is badly cut, Amtrak may have to postpone or cancel part of the order. I don't expect that would happen, but given the toxic political environment in the House, can't entirely be ruled out.

 

[user 1215]

What I don't understand is the need to retest. Aren't the shell and trucks already certified? I thought only the interior modules were new.

 

[dlagrua]

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release:

But isn't it inconsistent with the announcement by Amtrak at the time the original order was placed?

 

[user 1215]

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release:

But isn't it inconsistent with the announcement by Amtrak at the time the original order was placed?

Sure. But aren't most ordered delayed?

 

[afigg]

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release:

But isn't it inconsistent with the announcement by Amtrak at the time the original order was placed?

It is pretty obvious that there has been a major schedule slip since the order was placed with CAF in 2010 for various reasons. I was quoting what Amtrak stated in January 2013. The question is whether there has been any additional delays or schedule slips since then. We may not find out until the first 4 units are rolled out in a dog and pony show - whenever that happens.

 

[afigg]

What I don't understand is the need to retest. Aren't the shell and trucks already certified? I thought only the interior modules were new.

These are cars from a new manufacturer and production run. There are undoubtedly many small differences and changes in the design and equipment from the original Viewliners built back in 1990s. A set of cars will have to go to Colorado to be put through their paces.

All of the cars will have to undergo a thorough inspection and an acceptance test procedure, and do test runs, presumably on the NEC before they are cleared for revenue service. Between the ACS-64s and Viewliner IIs, there are likely to be many late night sightings on the NEC over the next 2-3 years of deadhead trains of new equipment passing through stations.

 

[Acela150]

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release:

But isn't it inconsistent with the announcement by Amtrak at the time the original order was placed?

Sure. But aren't most ordered delayed?

For sure they are! Ask Septa and the MBTA how their orders with Hyundai Rotem are going? Rotem's first order in the U.S. was Metrolink followed by Septa's new Silverliner V's. Septa is getting these cars at well over 50% off, due to the "Penalty Clause" in the contract, which was $250 per car, per day. The very last SL V was delivered earlier this Spring. 5-6 years behind schedule. No Joke.. And shortly before the last SL V delivery, the MBTA got their first car which was scheduled to roll off the line in 2008.. 5 years behind schedule. The MBTA seriously considered canceling the contract with Rotem. They should have too. Rotem's workmanship is the worst I have EVER yes, that's EVER, seen. The welds on the SL V's look like someone who has never welded before made the weld. And on top of that their has been some serious, serious labor issues at the Rotem plant in South Philadelphia. Complaints of harassment, sexual harassment, and from what the local papers have said the majority of the employees and paid so low that they have to use food stamps, and were hired with NO experience. When one inquires about taking tours of their plant they are quickly turned down with a small handful being able to tour the plant.

 

[trainviews]

There is nothing inconsistent with the CAF website statement with what Amtrak stated in January in their 2013 preview news release:

But isn't it inconsistent with the announcement by Amtrak at the time the original order was placed?

Sure. But aren't most ordered delayed?

For sure they are! Ask Septa and the MBTA how their orders with Hyundai Rotem are going? Rotem's first order in the U.S. was Metrolink followed by Septa's new Silverliner V's. Septa is getting these cars at well over 50% off, due to the "Penalty Clause" in the contract, which was $250 per car, per day. The very last SL V was delivered earlier this Spring. 5-6 years behind schedule. No Joke.. And shortly before the last SL V delivery, the MBTA got their first car which was scheduled to roll off the line in 2008.. 5 years behind schedule. The MBTA seriously considered canceling the contract with Rotem. They should have too. Rotem's workmanship is the worst I have EVER yes, that's EVER, seen. The welds on the SL V's look like someone who has never welded before made the weld. And on top of that their has been some serious, serious labor issues at the Rotem plant in South Philadelphia. Complaints of harassment, sexual harassment, and from what the local papers have said the majority of the employees and paid so low that they have to use food stamps, and were hired with NO experience. When one inquires about taking tours of their plant they are quickly turned down with a small handful being able to tour the plant.

Well try to google "fyra" or "IC4" and just rejoice that nobody in America got the idea of buying an italian train (IC4 is running almost 10 years late now, and most of the dellivered train sets are out of service due to poor quality, Fyra has been banned from the tracks in Belgium and the order cancelled)

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

I think Miami did buy from that company.

 

[Nathanael]

I wonder if they're still having trouble with the carshells. Remember there was a delay which appears to have been due to CAF's difficulty hiring welders who were able to work with stainless steel (which requires specialized welding techniques). If that hasn't been fully sorted out yet, that could account for a lot of delays -- we could have interiors ready to go and Amtrak might not be satisfied with workmanship on the carshells. After some of the carshell horror stories which people just shared about various commuter rail orders...

 

[winterskigirl]

Is this the new "Dreamliner" for Amtrak?

 

[jis]

When one inquires about taking tours of their plant they are quickly turned down with a small handful being able to tour the plant.

I have taken a tour of the plant arranged by DVARP in collaboration with SEPTA last year. Did not hear that they had any problem arranging it, but then again I did not ask specifically either.
Also, I have recently heard from usually reliable sources that two each of Sleeper, Diner and Bag pre production run cars will be out for testing in late fall this year. But of course ones mileage on these whispers from usually reliable sources may vary a bit.

The delay may partially have to do with Amtrak's ability to pay for them too I suppose.

Incidentally it was CAF that fabricated all the cars for Heathrow Express service in the UK, and they appear to be fine cars to me, having ridden them many times.

 

[Guest]

Is this the new "Dreamliner" for Amtrak?

I don't think the Viewliners II have any new, groundbreaking, technologies onboard. Well, with the possible exception of the coffee pot.

 

[jis]

Is this the new "Dreamliner" for Amtrak?

I don't think the Viewliners II have any new, groundbreaking, technologies onboard. Well, with the possible exception of the coffee pot.

Well put :lol:

 

[Texan Eagle]

Is this the new "Dreamliner" for Amtrak?

Not until one of them catches fire.... h34r:

 

[jis]

Or at least produces an alarming amount of smoke. But then I am sure that will happen sooner or later with an overheated bearing or a broken coffee pot, even the new tech coffee pot, or someone dozing off while smoking against the regulations. AFAIK there are no LI-Ion batteries except for the ones in everyone's i-Devices and laptops and other mobile devices.