Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

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Nice video Penny, looks like you've joined the photo pros on AU!

And Dave has a lot of nerve complaining about Cold Weather in Florida when he chooses to stay up North and not move to Florida like several of our smart AUers! ( of course you're a native but in your case you moved NORTH from Miami! LOL)
 
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Positive news "a long time a coming". I appreciate the pics and especially Penny K's video. From the appearance of these baggage cars I do not see any evidence of crew quarters. I was under the impression that the new cars would contain some crew quarters that would free up additional sleeper space. Am I wrong about this?
There will be some Bag-Dorms coming; they will be much like the traditional Combine Car of the past where the car is half Bag and half Crew Quarters.
 
when are new diners and sleepers expected to be put into revenue service?
 
I guess I'm just a bit confused why they are releasing 26 all at once. Were they all built in parallel? Why not build, test, add to consist as they were completed?
Years ago it was called job shop or job lot manufacturing. Bring in a batch of widgets, process them, and send the batch on its way.

Seriously, I agree with you. I would have expected an assembly line where they come off the line one at a time, at least after article 1 or 2. Wasn't that how it worked with the electric engines manufactured in Sacramento. I can see batching them somewhat for delivery since the plant isn't on an Amtrak line, but not 20.
 
when are new diners and sleepers expected to be put into revenue service?
The deployment of Viewliner II's has been a moving target and the schedule has been adjusted "as you go". Just a wild guess but I expect mid to late 2015 before we see the diners and sleepers coming on later in the year extending into 2016. Anyone have any "reliable" data to share.
 
I guess I'm just a bit confused why they are releasing 26 all at once. Were they all built in parallel? Why not build, test, add to consist as they were completed? It seems like a lot of work to dump on those guys in Hialeah at once.
I suspect that the baggage car production line has been going for a long time. Remember those photos of baggage car shells from a year ago? (Or was it two years ago?)

What happened here was that Amtrak returned with a list of *small* tweaks which had to be made. So a huge bunch of almost-complete baggage cars, which had already come off the production line, had to have the tweaks applied.

As you can imagine, this might go very very fast, so that you might go from no baggage cars ready for delivery to 20 in a week or two. I would not expect to see the next baggage cars come out in a giant lot like this.

On the other hand, the other three types also went back in for tweaks, so we might see a giant clump of dining cars released all at once at some point.
 
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Neroden let us start putting together a concrete short write up

that we can either send directly to Boardman, possibly via Brian G.

Also maybe we can get NARP on board. Perhaps Anderson and

Charlie can work that angle.

But first a few of us need to have something concrete that we are all

comfortable standing behind and pushing.
Yeah. I'm super super busy for the next few months. Please feel free to rip off anything I've already written if it's useful though.

I was impressed by the spreadsheet analysis of potential

sleeper revenue that you guys did a couple of weeks back.
I'm not sure how many sleepers I can make a good case for, because a lot of the input numbers are guesses with wide variance. I get really strong numbers when I base them on the numbers from the LSL, but I tend to look at the LSL for reasons of personal bias.

For a worse case, I have been doing estimates on the Cardinal's extra sleeper each month (with the usual wild variance)... and at the moment it looks like the extra sleeper is only roughly break-even, maybe less. (It's more expensive to run the attendants for a Cardinal sleeper than for an LSL sleeper, due to the longer runtime.) But it's hard to tell because we've only seen it during relatively weak months so far; one can't really tell until it's been a full year.

I know I can make a good case for more sleepers, I'm just not sure how to make a case for a specific number of sleepers.

For the dining cars, the case is very simple and the number is 5. Feel free to reuse any of this.

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Why Amtrak Should Order 5 More Viewliner II Dining Cars

* There will probably not be another opportunity to make a large order of single-level dining cars during the 40-year lifespan of the Viewliner IIs.

* There will probably be no other companies ordering single-level FRA-compliant dining cars over this period, so future "add-on" orders are impossible.

* A small order of dining cars is never cost-effective. So this is the only opportunity to order "just a few more cars".

* Over the 40-year lifespan of the Viewliner IIs, some of the dining cars will most likely get into wrecks and be destroyed.

* There are several routes which do not currently have a single-level dining car but which might plausibly need one in the next 40 years: a daily Cardinal (3 cars); a restored Silver Palm (4); a single-level Capitol Limited (3); a restored Broadway Limited (3). There are other possibilities such as an additional frequency on the Lake Shore Limited. While most of these will not happen, it is likely that one or two of them will.

* When considering Amtrak's preferred shop count of 20%, the current total of 26 Viewliner diners can only support roughly 21 cars in active service daily. When considering desired protect cars (one at each of four terminals), this number drops even lower, to roughly 17.

* Fifteen are in use daily right now. The additional 2 are not even enough to handle even a daily Cardinal without cutting into the shop count, and it is perfectly likely that there will be more than 2 wrecks in the next 40 years.

* In order to support the potential future dining car routes and potential losses to wrecks over the next 40 years, Amtrak should order 5 more dining cars; this would cover two expansions, or one expansion and a number of wrecks.

* This should be considered an insurance policy, and it has "option value". For roughly $10 million dollars, Amtrak insures against the lost business due to dining car wrecks for 40 years, and has an option for 40 years to expand dining car service where commercially appropriate.

* Current dining car economics should not be counted against this. Even if the method of operation changes substantially, a car with this physical configuration will remain highly useful for the long-duration trains to New York City.

They should be purchased now while they can be purchased economically. $10 million now to avoid problems for 40 years is well worth it. Amtrak has had many problems in the past due to shortages of specific types of car; it is well worth it to prevent this preemptively.

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That's as concise as I can make it. If someone can boil it down further, great.
 
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Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if the Cardinal is running with two sleepers again? I just checked availability for a date in January, and the number of rooms seem to have doubled since the last time I checked.
 
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if the Cardinal is running with two sleepers again? I just checked availability for a date in January, and the number of rooms seem to have doubled since the last time I checked.
The Cardinal did not have two sleepers when I rode it on December 13th.
 
The second Viewliner II delivery train is reported to be running two hours behind 97(21)
I would love updates. I have a doctor's appointment this afternoon about a half mile from the Orlando station. IF the doctor is on time, I should be done about 2 hours after 97 passes through.
 
Slightly off topic, but does anyone know if the Cardinal is running with two sleepers again? I just checked availability for a date in January, and the number of rooms seem to have doubled since the last time I checked.
The Cardinal did not have two sleepers when I rode it on December 13th.
The Cardinal reverted to 1 sleeper around November 1st.
 
Amtrak 861 is the Amtrak number of the delivery train today. Don't know the corresponding CSX P9xx number. It passed Savannah at 7:51am.

BTW, what the heck does how many sleepers Cardinal is carrying to day have to do with Viewliner II production status. Isn't there a more appropriate thread among the dozens of Cardinal threads to talk about that? :p
 
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BTW, what the heck does how many sleepers Cardinal is carrying to day have to do with Viewliner II production status. Isn't there a more appropriate thread among the dozens of Cardinal threads to talk about that? :p
To be fair, the Cardinal could be getting another sleeper from the Viewliner II order, eventually. With that said, Amtrak has 29 Viewliner IIs built, unless someone corrects me on that number.
 
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BTW, what the heck does how many sleepers Cardinal is carrying to day have to do with Viewliner II production status. Isn't there a more appropriate thread among the dozens of Cardinal threads to talk about that? :p
To be fair, the Cardinal could be getting another sleeper from the Viewliner II order, eventually. With that said, Amtrak has 29 Viewliner IIs built, unless someone corrects me on that number.
I call BS on that justification. Using that justification current car allotments for all Amtrak LD trains could be discussed in this thread, which would be pretty absurd.
Amtrak has had 28 Viewliner IIs delivered so far, all baggage cars. There are strong rumors that there will be another delivery in January, possibly of more baggage cars.
 
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