Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[Steve4031]

Iirc there is a plan to "upgrade" viewliner 1 sleepers with the no-toilet modules. Wouldn't this cause a delay in adding extra sleepers?

 

[jis]

That plan is currently not funded. IMHO, if money were to become available it should be used to exercise the options before spending it on retrofit. It is more important to have as many functional cars as possible on hand before fiddling around with furnishing that works just fine.

Having said that, when the time comes they could do the upgrade in batches of say 5 cars out for a month. Yes that would reduce the fleet by 5 cars for a year. But that is not going to be a showstopper for continuing to have additional capacity beyond what is available today deployed at any given time.

 

[Steve4031]

Thanks jis. I was curious about that. Then some trains would be viewliner 1 trains and some viewliner 2 trains.

 

[pennyk]

Special train just passed through Orlando station. I think I got video. Will try to post when I get home

 

[pennyk]

Video of second (and shorter) "special" train passing through Orlando station 12/22/14

Special baggage train video.MOV

 

[Ryan]

Nice!

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

Video of second (and shorter) "special" train passing through Orlando station 12/22/14

Special baggage train video.MOV

Nice video! It looks like you had quite a few interested folks on the platform with you.

 

[Railroad Bill]

Video of second (and shorter) "special" train passing through Orlando station 12/22/14

Special baggage train video.MOV

Nice video! It looks like you had quite a few interested folks on the platform with you.

Looks like a nice day in the Big O. Amtrak and Sunshine..

 

[Caesar La Rock]

BTW, what the heck does how many sleepers Cardinal is carrying to day have to do with Viewliner II production status. Isn't there a more appropriate thread among the dozens of Cardinal threads to talk about that?

To be fair, the Cardinal could be getting another sleeper from the Viewliner II order, eventually. With that said, Amtrak has 29 Viewliner IIs built, unless someone corrects me on that number.

I call BS on that justification. Using that justification current car allotments for all Amtrak LD trains could be discussed in this thread, which would be pretty absurd.
Amtrak has had 28 Viewliner IIs delivered so far, all baggage cars. There are strong rumors that there will be another delivery in January, possibly of more baggage cars.

Doesn't stop some from doing it anyway. Also, thanks for the correction on the Viewliner IIs. With all these baggage cars coming in and eventually going into service, the worst of the heritage baggage cars will be dispatched the to the scrapyard at Sims Metals or wherever Amtrak scraps equipment. Good thing I have plenty of pictures/videos of those old baggage cars.

 

[jis]

I believe some of the worst are already getting dispatched in the winter LD downsizing. Many of those being taken off are not returning come Spring.

 

[The Whistler]

I have not been following Amtraks deployment plans for the Viewliner II's that closely, but what seems to make sense is to retain the Viewliner I's and add the Viewliner II's. With more sleepers coming on they can refurbish the old ones while they add the new ones. The result is that Amtrak ends up with a sleeper fleet nearly double the size that in theory has the potential to double the revenue. I've heard the argument that the Viewliner I's may be at the end of their service life but one look at VIA rail illustrates well how vintage equipment can be restored and brought back to service. They still have some Pullman sleepers on their trains.

 

[jis]

Viewliner Is are not being taken out of service. All 50 remain in service. 25 Viewliner II Sleepers are being added to the single level Sleeper fleet.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

I have not been following Amtraks deployment plans for the Viewliner II's that closely, but what seems to make sense is to retain the Viewliner I's and add the Viewliner II's. With more sleepers coming on they can refurbish the old ones while they add the new ones. The result is that Amtrak ends up with a sleeper fleet nearly double the size that in theory has the potential to double the revenue. I've heard the argument that the Viewliner I's may be at the end of their service life but one look at VIA rail illustrates well how vintage equipment can be restored and brought back to service. They still have some Pullman sleepers on their trains.

It's 50 Viewliner I sleepers currently in the fleet. It will be 25 new Viewliner II sleepers, plus 10 new bag/dorms, in effect about 5 new sleepers, making a total 60% increase. That's unless the option order is placed soon and more cars are bought.

Amtrak needs to buy MANY more Viewliners of several types, to increase revenues, expand service, and improve efficiencies, but that won't happen.

Back when the original Viewliner I order was placed, Amtrak planned to buy 100 of them. Then Congress in its wisdom pulled the plug on the needed funds. There's no reason to believe that Congress has any more wisdom now than it did back then.

Meanwhile, the 60% increase in roomettes for sale just might bring a couple of the Eastern LD trains to an operating surplus. But it won't be a doubling of sleeper capacity, alas.

 

[afigg]

I've heard the argument that the Viewliner I's may be at the end of their service life but one look at VIA rail illustrates well how vintage equipment can be restored and brought back to service. They still have some Pullman sleepers on their trains.

Who has made the argument that the Viewliner Is may be at the end of their service life? Compared to most of Amtrak's fleet (excluding locomotives and the Acelas), the Viewliner I sleepers at 19 to 20 years old are young. The CAF order is for 25 sleeper cars, clearly to expand the fleet, not to replace the 50 Viewliner Is.

 

[neroden]

That plan is currently not funded. IMHO, if money were to become available it should be used to exercise the options before spending it on retrofit. It is more important to have as many functional cars as possible on hand before fiddling around with furnishing that works just fine.

Amtrak has previously discussed the problem of keeping the Beech Grove employees who were doing ARRA work, after the ARRA-funded work was done.... "Feast or famine", furloughs and overtime, isn't good for morale, quality, or costs. You want to hang on to your trained employees. So if there is an upcoming otherwise-slack period at Beech Grove, when the work they would otherwise do is not available, it might make sense to start fitting the retrofits into that period, just to keep the employees active. So there's the (only) argument for prioritizing the retrofits over the options.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

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18 Amtrak cars, built locally, head to Florida Bob Jamieson, [email protected] | @SGBobDecember 17, 2014

CAF-USA in Elmira Heights is building 130 new cars for Amtrak. A train hauling 18 of the 87-foot-long baggage cars left the plant Wednesday morning and passed through Elmira’s Eldridge Park on the way to Florida. (Photo: BOB JAMIESON / STAFF PHOTO)

(Photo: BOB JAMIESON / STAFF PHOTO)MORE
Horns blared, the ground rumbled and steel wheels provided a rhythmic clickety-clack as 18 shiny new Amtrak baggage cars rolled through Elmira on Wednesday morning bound for Florida.

The 87-foot-long cars, built at CAF USA in Elmira Heights, stopped briefly in Eldridge Park, drawing a small crowd.

"This is a culmination of over two years' worth of work from a lot of folks here in the community. Just to see them go down the road is really satisfying," said Mark Smith, CAF USA director of manufacturing.

The cars are part of Amtrak's effort to modernize its fleet and ... are slated to enter service early next year on long-distance routes.

They are part of a $300 million contract from Amtrak through which CAF USA will produce 130 long-distance passenger cars — baggage, diner, sleeper and bag-dorm cars. Work is expected to continue into 2016. Employment has grown to 800 at the Elmira Heights plant, which expanded to fulfill this contract and others....




Excerpts from another nice article from the Elmira StarGazette, whose reporting started this thread about 66 pages back.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

So if I've got this correctly, the 25 new Viewliner II sleepers will serve alongside the old Viewliner I sleepers, right? And since the new ones will have a restroom but no in-room toilets, if the new sleepers are dispatched more-or-less randomly around the Viewliner-equipped trains, there's no way of knowing what sort of plumbing you'll have?

 

[Ryan]

In the transition time, yes. At the end of the day, the Viewliner I's will be equipped with roomette modules that don't have the toilet.

 

[George K]

In the transition time, yes. At the end of the day, the Viewliner I's will be equipped with roomette modules that don't have the toilet.

Are the Viewliner I's modular? Also, what's the transition time (I'm too old and lazy to look it up)?

 

[Ryan]

Yes.

Later. (I'm not sure that a firm timeline is known)

 

[Acela150]

It will be a while. They'll only be able to take 1 or 2 out for the change at a time.

 

[afigg]

In the transition time, yes. At the end of the day, the Viewliner I's will be equipped with roomette modules that don't have the toilet.

Are the Viewliner I's modular? Also, what's the transition time (I'm too old and lazy to look it up)?

There is no funding for the conversion or upgrade of the Viewliner Is in the five year financial plan released for FY2014 (through FY18). There is no schedule or upgrade timeframe to discuss until the funds are in the budget. We'll see if there is any increase in the projected Viewliner overhaul funding levels of $7.5 to $8,9 million a year in the FY2015-19 five year plan whenever that is posted.

In the interim, which is likely to last years, there will be 25 Viewliner IIs with 11 roomettes & 2 bathrooms and 50 Viewliner Is with 12 roomettes with in-room toilets. Since the Viewliner IIs should be more resistent to cold weather, they may get assigned primarily to the LSL, Cardinal, and CL pass-through cars.

 

[Bob Dylan]

As one who likes having the toliet and sink in the Viewliner Roomette, I wouldn't be bothered by having ride in a I until Amtrak can get the funds to refurbish them!

Its similar to the Superliner Sleepers where the older Is have been nicely refurbished while the newer IIs are getting shabby and in need of total rehab!

I wonder where the money will come from too, I'd rather see the funding Amtrak has used for ordering more IIs, Viewlinwrs,Diners, Bag Cars and new Viewliner Coaches and Cafe/Lounge Cars also before the production line doing the IIs shuts down! ( I know it's wishful thinking!)

 

[neroden]

The Viewliner Is are exceptionally modular. Entire roomettes pull out through a hatch in the side. (The IIs are equally modular.) During rehabs, if there are any problem roomettes, they are simply replaced entirely with a spare roomette, so as to save time and get the car back in service quicker.

There is no timeline on the retrofits and they're unfunded.

 

[Guest]

As one who likes having the toliet and sink in the Viewliner Roomette, I wouldn't be bothered by having ride in a I until Amtrak can get the funds to refurbish them!

As one who also likes having the toilet and sink in the Viewliner I's Roomette, I would advocate the overall of the II's to correct for their downright incompetent design mistake, long before seeing Congress spending a penny on any other Amtrak's follies.