Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[StriderGDM]

There's more to adding baggage service than slapping on a baggage car. The stations have to be manned and open at the time the train calls, dwell time has to be increased at stations to account for baggage handling, etc.

That's true, especially about the dwell time. But if you're adding it to a route that already has manned stations and baggage service (the Water Level route) it's really only the dwell time.

Same with adding it to a train or two along the NEC.

One of the big issues folks north and east of NYC have is trying to get their checked bags to NYP so it can then go on a LD train from there. Timing often sucks.

 

[jis]

One significant fly in the ointment of the grand plans of adding baggage cars to additional trains is that the current order is just barely enough to maintain baggage cars on the existing LD and MD trains that have such service, plus maybe a couple more. There is not going to be an abundance of spare baggage cars upon the completion of this order and the consequent removal from service of the superannuated Heritage baggage cars.

 

[Train2104]

There's more to adding baggage service than slapping on a baggage car. The stations have to be manned and open at the time the train calls, dwell time has to be increased at stations to account for baggage handling, etc.

Is there really no way to implement simple checked baggage (not high volume, no transfers, no guns, 2 bags only, no special items, no express) daily at an unstaffed station? There are a couple that do the exact same thing 2 days a week already.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

It's sad when you have to use the word "perhaps" in the sentence describing when they'll enter service, nearly two years late.

...

It's sad when Amtrak Ink. has to use the phrase

"expected to enter revenue service in 2015".

Such vague dating.

Do they mean FY 2015 or calendar 2015?

I'm going with calendar year, but I'm not

going very fast.

 

[afigg]

One significant fly in the ointment of the grand plans of adding baggage cars to additional trains is that the current order is just barely enough to maintain baggage cars on the existing LD and MD trains that have such service, plus maybe a couple more. There is not going to be an abundance of spare baggage cars upon the completion of this order and the consequent removal from service of the superannuated Heritage baggage cars.

They are expanding the baggage car fleet from 64 active baggage cars to a net total of 80 (70 baggage cars plus 10 bag-dorms). The 64 comes from the October, 2014 Inspector General report on planning for the utilization of the LD equipment. That report states that 48 baggage cars are planned for in service, so if 12 cars are shop and standby cars, that would leave 10 baggage cars that could be used in expanded service. But I think that Amtrak wants to have a somewhat larger reserve fleet for standby cars, peak season spares, and long term attrition reserves.

But that could still leave enough new baggage cars to add them to a daily Regional, the Pennsylvanian, and when/if the Customs facility in Montreal opens, the Adirondack. A Regional with a baggage car could have its scheduled tweaked to skip the small stops on the NEC to make up for the longer major station dwells, Adding baggage cars to those 3 trains would provide checked baggage options at the already staffed stations north of NYP and west of PHL for transfers to the LD trains.

As for option orders, it would be useful if Amtrak were to purchase an additional 5 sleeper cars and 5 bag-dorms. That, with 26 diner cars, could provide enough spare capacity to run a restored Broadway Limited* and have a baggage-dorm car on the Crescent in place of a full baggage car. I suspect the main reason for cutting the bag-dorm order was the concern about the peak seasonal baggage capacity on the Silvers.

However, I think there are no set plans to exercise any of the options from CAF. The FY2016 budget and updated fleet plan show 130 new single level LD cars with no hint of any more. If exercising part of the 70 car option is not in FY2016 wish list budget, when would it be added?

* setting aside the issue of coach cars.

 

[jis]

Frankly I will fall off my chair if the options on the CAF order are ever exercised (i.e. I don't think they will be exercised). But then again I have been wrong in the past. So we will see.

As for baggage cars, I suspect that the Pennsylvanian, Ethan Allen, Vermonter and something like 95/195 - 94/194 will get baggage cars. And that will be it for now.

If the Pennsylvanian to Cap transfer stuff ever happens it is possible that the baggage car will be part of the through consist, hence requiring three cars instead of two.

I would be more than surprised if any of the international trains in the east get them. Adirondack might get them after the C&I moves to Montreal Central, but not before that. Maple Leaf will not get it.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

... the grand plans

However, I think there are no set plans to exercise any of the options from CAF. The FY2016 budget and updated fleet plan show 130 new single level LD cars with no hint of any more. If exercising part of the 70 car option is not in FY2016 wish list budget, when would it be added?

If I were hoping to exercise any part of the option, I'd

(1) wait to see what the Acela IIs are gonna cost (and

we're creeping up on that announcement, this year iirc),

and

(2) I wouldn't tell Congress until the last possible moment

when I'd say we found some loose change under the

pillows while rebuilding the parlor cars, or sumpin.

and

(3) I'd tell Congress that at this point, any more cars ordered

would be delivered after the 2016 election, so no more

photo ops for Joe Biden. LOL.

From this point of view, the e x t e n d e d delays are

not all bad. I know nothing, but guess that maybe the

payments to CAF are being stretched out, allowing

Amtrak to pay a little more from cash flow in most

months. And to the extent that the problems are CAF's

problems (whether their fault, "can't read blueprints",

or not), some of what was due to CAF could be converted

into getting a few extra cars from them as a settlement.

I know I'm leaning on a thin reed, but I'm not giving up.

 

[Guest]

As for baggage cars, I suspect that the Pennsylvanian, Ethan Allen, Vermonter and something like 95/195 - 94/194 will get baggage cars. And that will be it for now.

You don't think the Silvers will get a new baggage car?

Especially given that the Silvers come the physically closest to where the baggage cars are being stored.

 

[jis]

All existing baggage car service will of course get the new baggage cars. I was just listing trains that currently do not have baggage cars that might get them. Please read my post carefully in context of the discussion I was having with afigg, and not just by itself.

 

[StriderGDM]

Frankly I will fall off my chair if the options on the CAF order are ever exercised (i.e. I don't think they will be exercised). But then again I have been wrong in the past. So we will see.

As for baggage cars, I suspect that the Pennsylvanian, Ethan Allen, Vermonter and something like 95/195 - 94/194 will get baggage cars. And that will be it for now.

If the Pennsylvanian to Cap transfer stuff ever happens it is possible that the baggage car will be part of the through consist, hence requiring three cars instead of two.

I would be more than surprised if any of the international trains in the east get them. Adirondack might get them after the C&I moves to Montreal Central, but not before that. Maple Leaf will not get it.

Fair point about the Maple Leaf. I'm mostly on board with what you suggest.

I think even minor improvements in the current baggage availability people will start to use it a lot more.

Keep in mind to that the new baggage cars will also support the transportation of bicycles, something that could quickly become very popular among the millennials.

Heck, I know if there was an easy way to check my bike w/o having to disassemble it and box it in ALB, I'd take it to DC from time to time.

 

[PaulM]

There's more to adding baggage service than slapping on a baggage car. The stations have to be manned and open at the time the train calls, dwell time has to be increased at stations to account for baggage handling, etc.

Is there really no way to implement simple checked baggage (not high volume, no transfers, no guns, 2 bags only, no special items, no express) daily at an unstaffed station? There are a couple that do the exact same thing 2 days a week already.

You beat me to it. I know of 3 such: Mount Pleasant and Ft. Madison in Iowa and Newton, KS. The way it works is you attach one tag with the destination code onto your bag and keep the second for retrieval. You then stand by a sign on the platform where someone takes your bag. The sign in the station explaining the procedure is clear and easy to follow. This miracle-like break with tradition occurred about two years ago.

The time I tried it in FMD, a train staff person came bounding out of the transdorm, took the bag, and that was it. It took less dwell time than any station agent would.

At the same time, baggage service was reinstated at Galesburg after quite a while, despite 8 trains per day and at least 3 agents assigned to the station. The excuse was a lack of space. Once again, a miracle occurred; and it was discovered not to be a problem.

 

[Train2104]

You beat me to it. I know of 3 such: Mount Pleasant and Ft. Madison in Iowa and Newton, KS. The way it works is you attach one tag with the destination code onto your bag and keep the second for retrieval. You then stand by a sign on the platform where someone takes your bag. The sign in the station explaining the procedure is clear and easy to follow. This miracle-like break with tradition occurred about two years ago.

The time I tried it in FMD, a train staff person came bounding out of the transdorm, took the bag, and that was it. It took less dwell time than any station agent would.

At the same time, baggage service was reinstated at Galesburg after quite a while, despite 8 trains per day and at least 3 agents assigned to the station. The excuse was a lack of space. Once again, a miracle occurred; and it was discovered not to be a problem.

But those three stations are staffed (not with baggage handlers and not 7 days a week, but there's an Amtrak employee there at least a few days a week). Perhaps Amtrak has some reservation against putting this system in totally unstaffed stations. (did they have a kiosk full of tags? They couldn't possibly have every luggage station...)

Also, do all "normal" stations with checked baggage have a dedicated baggage handler? That seems really wasteful.

 

[VT Hokie]

No skilled workers in upstate NY? What happened to all the Super Steel Schenectady workers who made the RTL-III Turboliners?

 

[OBS]

They didn't make the turbos, they rebuilt (ruined) them...

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Super Steel project failed. Warehouse full of equipment sold off pennies on the dollar. Turboliners shredded. (The sets in NY)

Schenectady is now a tech zone, the major source of new jobs, and growth in this area.

 

[neroden]

And to the extent that the problems are CAF's

problems (whether their fault, "can't read blueprints",

or not), some of what was due to CAF could be converted

into getting a few extra cars from them as a settlement.

This has been done by another agency with another contractor fairly recently.
Was it Philadelphia with their infamously-delayed Silverliner V order? Or am I getting it mixed up with someone else. I know it happened to a recent rail car order.

If Amtrak settled with CAF for the delays by having CAF make more cars at no cost, that would probably be best from an accounting perspective for Amtrak. And it would be best for CAF from a marketing point of view.

 

[neroden]

If Amtrak did not have independent QA monitoring of the manufacturing process at the shop, then they should get some new project management people.

*cough* The statement from the fellow I talked to in Chicago was that Amtrak's project managers for the CAF order had been changed very recently.

 

[wolfspirit]

And to the extent that the problems are CAF's

problems (whether their fault, "can't read blueprints",

or not), some of what was due to CAF could be converted

into getting a few extra cars from them as a settlement.

This has been done by another agency with another contractor fairly recently.
Was it Philadelphia with their infamously-delayed Silverliner V order? Or am I getting it mixed up with someone else. I know it happened to a recent rail car order.

SEPTA was angling for straight up money out of Rotem, I think. I don't remember how it got resolved (either money, free refurb work, or if its still in the courts). I know it wasn't extra cars.

 

[PaulM]

But those three stations are staffed (not with baggage handlers and not 7 days a week, but there's an Amtrak employee there at least a few days a week). Perhaps Amtrak has some reservation against putting this system in totally unstaffed stations. (did they have a kiosk full of tags? They couldn't possibly have every luggage station...)

Also, do all "normal" stations with checked baggage have a dedicated baggage handler? That seems really wasteful.

Yes there was a kiosk; but I don't remember whether the tags had station codes on them or you put the code on the tag yourself, but I do remember a sign with stations and code on it. I'm not sure how it would be handled if you wanted to check a bag to anywhere in the system on a connecting train. I'm sure there is a solution.

I don't see why this would only be possible at a station staffed 5 days a week. If you depart on Saturday, the fact that an agent was on duty the day before doesn't help you or the train staff.

I'm sure only the largest stations, like CHI, have dedicated baggage handlers. Generally, at smaller station the ticket office is closed near train time while the agent is handling baggage

 

[OBS]

Paul is correct in that the small stations have the ticket agent handle luggage duties as well. In some "medium" size/ volume stations, there will be a combined baggage/ custodian job where the person handles baggage/ cleaning/ lawn and snow duties, etc...

 

[cirdan]

If the Pennsylvanian to Cap transfer stuff ever happens it is possible that the baggage car will be part of the through consist, hence requiring three cars instead of two.

Wouldn't it be easier to transfer the baggage from one car to another, seeing we're talking about one sleeping car's worth of baggage here?

 

[hastybob]

OK - 3 of the baggage cars are on 98 today. 1 on the headline and 2 on the rear. That probably means the one on the head end is getting off in Washington and the other two going on to New York.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

OK - 3 of the baggage cars are on 98 today. 1 on the headline and 2 on the rear. That probably means the one on the head end is getting off in Washington and the other two going on to New York.

I hope this is the good news we've been waiting for.

Unless all three are heading back to Elmira.

 

[R30A]

My question is- are there any other baggage cars on today's 98 besides the Viewliners?

 

[Amfleeter]

My question is- are there any other baggage cars on today's 98 besides the Viewliners?

I would assume one of them on the rear would be handling baggage if this is proper entry into service.