Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[ScottRu]

I haven't read this entire thread, so this may have been covered, but I am on #98, parked beside a new baggage car in Jacksonville (61009).

Looks gorgeous, but our SCA says all of them failed their test runs ("too long!"). Says most are already back for modification. 5 left in Florida will be returning soon.

Can this be true?

 

[Guest]

I haven't read this entire thread, so this may have been covered, but I am on #98, parked beside a new baggage car in Jacksonville (61009).

Looks gorgeous, but our SCA says all of them failed their test runs ("too long!"). Says most are already back for modification. 5 left in Florida will be returning soon.

Can this be true?

The Viewliner cheerleaders on this board don't want to hear that!!! I have tried to tell people here circumspectly that there are issues with these cars but all they see is that they are beautiful.

 

[Steve4031]

Interior shots and exterior of one at Union station Chicago

 

[StriderGDM]

The Acela was exactly as wide as Amtrak asked for (which turns out to be 4" wider than Metro North would allow for a trainset that tilted).

The idea that Amtrak ordered a trainset, took delivery of it and someone realized "Hey, these are wider than the train we ordered" is somewhat silly.

Exactly.

 

[MikefromCrete]

I haven't read this entire thread, so this may have been covered, but I am on #98, parked beside a new baggage car in Jacksonville (61009).

Looks gorgeous, but our SCA says all of them failed their test runs ("too long!"). Says most are already back for modification. 5 left in Florida will be returning soon.

Can this be true?

Never believe scuttlebut. The SCA probably doesn't know as much as you do. If they failed their test run why are they being shuttled to various locations around the country? Shouldn't they have been sent back to Elmira or repaired in place in Miami?

 

[DryCreek]

Maybe they'll even put canvas sling seats in the heritage baggage cars and sell reduced-fare steerage class passage? I'd hate to think that they would just scrap them.

Those baggage cars are 60 years old and have their wheels run off with millions of miles of service. There's no more life left in them.

So, they'll end up on the Texas State Railroad then. Maybe they'll be converted to some time of lounge car or just used for carrying spare parts for when they do get a consist together and moving.

 

[William W.]

Maybe they'll even put canvas sling seats in the heritage baggage cars and sell reduced-fare steerage class passage? I'd hate to think that they would just scrap them.

Those baggage cars are 60 years old and have their wheels run off with millions of miles of service. There's no more life left in them.

So, they'll end up on the Texas State Railroad then. Maybe they'll be converted to some time of lounge car or just used for carrying spare parts for when they do get a consist together and moving.

I don't think that you understand the situation. Those baggage cars have literally been run into the ground. They are nearing the point of no longer being safe to operate. One or two might be kept as historical pieces, but the rest are headed for the scrapheap.

 

[Me]

I sort of suspect that the bag dorm will go to NYP while Boston gets the full baggage. If they keep organizing baggage like they do today (Boston used for intermediate and BOS baggage, NY used only for NYP baggage), I believe the Boston baggage car is the busier one anyway.

Quite possible. There has been a new baggage car sitting at South Station for a couple days.

 

[Guest]

Maybe they'll even put canvas sling seats in the heritage baggage cars and sell reduced-fare steerage class passage? I'd hate to think that they would just scrap them.

Those baggage cars are 60 years old and have their wheels run off with millions of miles of service. There's no more life left in them.

So, they'll end up on the Texas State Railroad then. Maybe they'll be converted to some time of lounge car or just used for carrying spare parts for when they do get a consist together and moving.

I don't think that you understand the situation. Those baggage cars have literally been run into the ground. They are nearing the point of no longer being safe to operate. One or two might be kept as historical pieces, but the rest are headed for the scrapheap.

If anyone wants to spend money the Heritage baggage cars could be rebuilt. They could be theoretically converted to private cars or used on the Panama Canal Railroad or something like that. What is unsafe about them is the retrofitted roll up baggage doors. The non retofitted doors are better but since there are no replacement parts they are difficult to maintain in working order. And the poor lighting.

 

[neroden]

Frankly, there are already plenty of museum-quality baggage cars in museums.

* Half the Amtrak Heritage baggage cars are converted coaches. They're completely shot since the suspension wasn't designed for baggage service, and they have had all interior details stripped. Nobody wants them. Best case, they'll be stripped fort parts. More likely they'll be melted for metal value.

* The other half have mostly *also* had all their original interior details stripped over the decades. They're also mostly bad choices for preservation or restoration, though a few might survive.

* Conversion to any use other than museum service would require putting in windows (restoring them in some cases, I guess). This makes it absurdly involved, expensive, and undesirable compared to taking a decaying coach, sleeper, cafe, diner, or observation car.

The Heritage dining cars are much, much more attractive for anyone interested in preservation, restoration, private car service, or even entertainment. Seemingly the tourist train and charter private-car markets can never get enough dining cars -- and they're *also* popular as seating attractions at railroad museums and even just at theme restaurants. I would expect much, much more interest in those -- they should all fetch prices better than scrap.

 

[neroden]

What I have heard is that the baggage department has been instructed not to use the shelves and that the train crews will be instructed not to use the sheves. However at this time pending training and written instructions I woud consider the above only to be rumors. I certainly would not attempt to use the shelves without training. Perhaps that is where the rumors come from, maybe they don't want the shelves used until everyone, station baggage handlers and train crew have been trained, and then they will use the shelves.

Now *that* would make sense. A *lot* of sense. It's probably quite possible for someone who doesn't know what he's doing to screw up and break the shelves; perhaps it's easy to overload them, or perhaps the workings are finicky. They may be requiring that everyone be trained carefully on the shelf usage before allowing them to be used. In fact, Amtrak will probably have to put specific instructions and restrictions into the Blue Book regarding using the shelves properly before they allow anyone to operate them. (This would be so if an employee breaks the shelf, Amtrak can take the cost out of their wallet.) And make sure that every single employee has the new edition of the book. That may take a while. I would totally expect a temporary "don't use the shelves yet" instruction under these circumstances.

----

I will also say that given the previous reports of quality control issues I wouldn't be surprised at all if some percentage of the cars (10%?) do get sent back to Elmira for repairs. But it seems clear that *most* of them are OK at this point.

 

[Grammar Nazi]

Maybe they'll even put canvas sling seats in the heritage baggage cars and sell reduced-fare steerage class passage? I'd hate to think that they would just scrap them.

Those baggage cars are 60 years old and have their wheels run off with millions of miles of service. There's no more life left in them.

So, they'll end up on the Texas State Railroad then. Maybe they'll be converted to some time of lounge car or just used for carrying spare parts for when they do get a consist together and moving.

I don't think that you understand the situation. Those baggage cars have literally been run into the ground. They are nearing the point of no longer being safe to operate. One or two might be kept as historical pieces, but the rest are headed for the scrapheap.

:angry2: :angry2: :angry2: :angry2: :angry2:

 

[Bus Nut]

Was that really necessary? Also, check yourself before you wreck yourself. "Run into the ground" literally doesn't mean what you think it means: http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/run+into+the+ground

Although these old bags sometimes get flat wheels that could put part of the train on the ground.

Back to Viewliner, not surprised that there is going to be doom and gloom scuttlebutt running around with a change thsi significant. Employees are anxious and not everything has gone perfectly with this car order. But I detect a whiff of exaggeration here myself.

 

[George K]

not everything has gone perfectly with this car order

As you say, I'm sure that there's exaggeration, but what has gone wrong with this order?

(asking because I don't feel like wading through 80 pages of this thread - yeah, I'm lazy)

 

[Guest]

not everything has gone perfectly with this car order

As you say, I'm sure that there's exaggeration, but what has gone wrong with this order?

(asking because I don't feel like wading through 80 pages of this thread - yeah, I'm lazy)

It would be surprising if any new equipment did not fail their initial test runs or that new equipment would not have issues. I would not have much faith in any testing that did not uncover issues that had to be fixed before putting new equipment into service. Don't forget that not only does Amtrak have to sign off on new equipment, the FRA has to sign off on it. The exaggeration would be to think that faling test runs means the issues can't or won't be be fixed. Modifications will be made ( maybe already done or in progress ) so they will pass the test runs.

 

[George K]

Of course. Being ignorant of how these things are handled, I was just wondering what kind of issues are being found. I would think that the contract Amtrak has would be specific wrt specs such as dimensions, compatibility with other rolling stock, etc.

 

[NTL1991]

Viewliner II Baggage 61024 will be deadheading on the very rear of 91(15) to MIA for "Warranty Work"

 

[Caesar La Rock]

I've been watching the Silver Service trains for years now. Some of the baggage cars looked as if they were going to fall apart before my eyes. Some aren't all too bad, but then again a new paint job can hide a lot of things. If some are to survive into preservation, I wonder which ones are likely candidates?

I doubt the 1700s are going to make it, so unless someone wants to actually buy those and put money into reconverting them back into coaches, power to whoever can pull it off. It's going to be expensive though. The Diners are definitely going to make it into preservation.

 

[afigg]

Of course. Being ignorant of how these things are handled, I was just wondering what kind of issues are being found. I would think that the contract Amtrak has would be specific wrt specs such as dimensions, compatibility with other rolling stock, etc.

Amtrak owns the Viewliner design. CAF has made changes and manufacturing revisions to the design, but CAF is working off of Amtrak design documents. So it is more just specifications.

As for the post claiming problems with shelf strength, that would surprise me because designing the fold-down shelves to hold so many pounds of luggage over so many gs of bumpy track is straight forward mechanical engineering design. Not exactly a complicated nor challenging design item. 28 of the baggage cars have been accepted, this many months after initial rounds of testing of the first 2 baggage cars which were then sent back to CAF for changes. More issues may crop up, but if they do, then CAF and Amtrak will work out how to fix them and make the changes.

The ACS-64s have undergone what appears to be a long list of refinements and change orders with retrofits being made to the earlier units that have been delivered. These are not off the shelf purchases, retrofits and modifications after the units have been delivered are par for the course.

 

[George K]

Thanks for the info. Fascinating.

It's certainly not like buying a car off the assembly line, is it? I had no idea that something that I, as an ignorant person, would have considered not much more complicated than a set of wheels under a box could pose all kinds of issues.

Design, spec, buy, build, tweak, tweak, tweak...

 

[BagsWithAView]

Trains going out with coaches instead of baggage cars has shot up the past few days. Heritage baggage car 1203 was sent to Beech Grove on 850-13 to be stored dead.

92-07

92-13

92-14

49-15

97-15

48-16

92-16

Still no news on when the new cars will go into service, but I suspect it is getting close.

 

[NTL1991]

There are some issues with the baggage cars as far as pinch points with the baggage racks and also an issue that pertains to clearances when using pallet jacks in the cars.

 

[jis]

Think of it this way.... so many Amfleet IIs will suddenly become available to carry passengers again, once the baggage cars go into service

 

[George K]

That's what I like. A "Glass Half Full" kind of guy.

 

[neroden]

There are some issues with the baggage cars as far as pinch points with the baggage racks and also an issue that pertains to clearances when using pallet jacks in the cars.

The pinch points shouldn't prevent the racks from being used, but would require careful training and new manuals to make sure everyone avoids getting dangerously pinched. (There are plenty of pinch points which must be carefully avoided in existing equipment.)

As for the pallet jacks... well, they might not work. Oh well.