Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[NAthanael]

I heard from someone at Amtrak that the Viewliner fleet will one day replace every car in their system. I am not so sure that it will happen that way - since I do love the Superliners and the Sightseer lounge (Superliner).

Maybe what he meant was that bilevel Viewliners would be introduced. How do you like the idea of a Superliner sleeper with four rows of windows? I like it....

 

[Nathanael]

As to an entire fleet, I think someday they might experiment with viewliner coaches & lounges, or they might just create Amfleet IIIs. We have to wait and see. I would be fine with both.

For reference, one of the last two remaining "prototype Viewliner shells" is now being used at Beech Grove as a testbed for long-distance single-level coach designs; this has been popping up in Amtrak budget reports for a while. So I think Amtrak plans for Viewliner coaches.

I would assume they would then use Viewliner-profile lounges as well. Though I would love it if they could manage Superliner-style skylights within the profile (I don't know whether it would be considered structurally sound). But that's all a long way in the future, unfortunately...

 

[bgiaquin]

I heard from someone at Amtrak that the Viewliner fleet will one day replace every car in their system. I am not so sure that it will happen that way - since I do love the Superliners and the Sightseer lounge (Superliner).

Maybe what he meant was that bilevel Viewliners would be introduced. How do you like the idea of a Superliner sleeper with four rows of windows? I like it....

Bilevel viewliner? that would be interesting!

 

[bgiaquin]

As to an entire fleet, I think someday they might experiment with viewliner coaches & lounges, or they might just create Amfleet IIIs. We have to wait and see. I would be fine with both.

For reference, one of the last two remaining "prototype Viewliner shells" is now being used at Beech Grove as a testbed for long-distance single-level coach designs; this has been popping up in Amtrak budget reports for a while. So I think Amtrak plans for Viewliner coaches.

I would assume they would then use Viewliner-profile lounges as well. Though I would love it if they could manage Superliner-style skylights within the profile (I don't know whether it would be considered structurally sound). But that's all a long way in the future, unfortunately...

Wonderful!, I cannot wait.

 

[cirdan]

However - he mentioned that the feedback from crews is dramatically different, and he said Amtrak really took that into consideration... that the crews can not get disabled folks up and down the stairs, smokers can hide out in lower levels, open windows, etc, etc.. The crews prefer the ease of walking car to car with no hidden levels and they like having everything in clear view. There is tremendous liability in keeping the train safe and secure....The Superliners are just harder on the crews...

All that is true, but the future bi-level cars for LD trains need not be a clone of the present Superliners. Many of the issues you describe can be fixed. Windows can be locked. Doors can be interlocked. Even a wheelchair elevator is not beyond the realm of the possible.

On the other hand, it all boils down to the economics. Single level cars means that trains will have to be longer to provide the same capacity. Will all stations be able to handle that? Will locomotives need more power to pull the extra weight? A lower level of car will of course lose some of the viewability experience from the present Superliner lounge cars. Maybe somebody con bring back some version of the dome to make up for that.

At the end of the day, myriad reasons will influence the decision, and it will be difficult to second guess the outcome so many years in advance.

 

[bgiaquin]

However - he mentioned that the feedback from crews is dramatically different, and he said Amtrak really took that into consideration... that the crews can not get disabled folks up and down the stairs, smokers can hide out in lower levels, open windows, etc, etc.. The crews prefer the ease of walking car to car with no hidden levels and they like having everything in clear view. There is tremendous liability in keeping the train safe and secure....The Superliners are just harder on the crews...

All that is true, but the future bi-level cars for LD trains need not be a clone of the present Superliners. Many of the issues you describe can be fixed. Windows can be locked. Doors can be interlocked. Even a wheelchair elevator is not beyond the realm of the possible.

On the other hand, it all boils down to the economics. Single level cars means that trains will have to be longer to provide the same capacity. Will all stations be able to handle that? Will locomotives need more power to pull the extra weight? A lower level of car will of course lose some of the viewability experience from the present Superliner lounge cars. Maybe somebody con bring back some version of the dome to make up for that.

At the end of the day, myriad reasons will influence the decision, and it will be difficult to second guess the outcome so many years in advance.

I know many of the stations on long distance routes that use SLs have platforms that cannot handle longer trains. In fact, many of those many can barely handle the current length of those trains. But extra weight? I thought single level cars weigh a lot less than superliners?

 

[Ryan]

They also carry a lot less people, so you'll have a heavier train to have the same capacity.

 

[jis]

However, weight of the train is one of the lesser things to worry about specially in the USA which has very robust tracks since they have to carry 286klb freight cars on 4 axles.

 

[Blackwolf]

A simple, quick search on the internet provides the following information:

Superliner/Multi-Level Long-Distance Amtrak Train:

• Heritage Baggage: 120,000 pounds
• TransDorm:165,000 pounds
• Sleeper: 165,000 pounds / 42 seats
• Diner: 170,000 pounds
• Lounge:146,000 pounds
• Coach:148,000 pounds / 74 seats

So, for a typical Western LD train consiting of baggage/transdorm/sleeper/sleeper/diner/lounge/coach/coach/coach, we come up with a ballpark estimate of:

• 1,375,000 pounds, or 688 tons for a 9-car train.
• A maximum capacity in terms of all seats/accommodations filled of about 305 people, not counting the crew.

In order to haul the same number of passengers using the current Amfleet/Heritage/Viewliner single-level trains we would need:

• 1 Heritage Baggage (120,000 pounds.)
• 4 Viewliner sleepers (Unknown weight, but probably around 130,000 pounds each.)
• 1 Heritage diner (Unknown weight, but likely in the 140,000 pound range.)
• 1 Amfleet lounge (110,000 pounds.)
• 4 Amfleet II coaches (116,000 pounds a-piece.)

Total weight using the above numbers comes out to be:

• 1,354,000 pounds, or 677 tons for an 11-car train.

*Disclaimer: This is by no means 100% accurate, and is based off of information gained from the internet. Amtrak does not post any official information about the weights of it's rolling stock ANYWHERE, so I imagine the numbers here are as much gospel as someone counting jelly beans in a jar.

 

[bgiaquin]

Thanks for the info.

 

[benjibear]

As far as the conductors not seeing the other levels, with camera technology getting better every year, it is probably not that uneconomical to install cameras throughout the train to monitor any suspicions activity. The conductor can watch a monitor in addition to walking the train to find these people with bad behavior.

 

[AlanB]

For reference, one of the last two remaining "prototype Viewliner shells" is now being used at Beech Grove as a testbed for long-distance single-level coach designs; this has been popping up in Amtrak budget reports for a while. So I think Amtrak plans for Viewliner coaches.

Last I knew that car, 2300, was at the Wilmington Shops. Those who did the shop tour last year at the Gathering saw this car sitting outside one of the buildings where we started the tour. And there are several photos that got posted of that car.

 

[Ryan]

Yep, she was there a year ago:



Philly_Train_Trip_1 by Ryan Stavely, on Flickr



Philly_Train_Trip_40 by Ryan Stavely, on Flickr

 

[cirdan]

Thanks for the info.

+1

 

[battalion51]

As far as the conductors not seeing the other levels, with camera technology getting better every year, it is probably not that uneconomical to install cameras throughout the train to monitor any suspicions activity. The conductor can watch a monitor in addition to walking the train to find these people with bad behavior.

Its a struggle to get the PA working on some of the single level equipment, much less to get cameras going. Also, the Single Level fleet has never had an adequate, dedicated space for the Conductor and AC to be able to do their work. The Conductor's "office" in the Amfleet II cafes is entirely too small for one, but still leaves nowhere to go for the AC. Not saying its impossible to do cameras, but baby steps...

 

[Nathanael]

For reference, one of the last two remaining "prototype Viewliner shells" is now being used at Beech Grove as a testbed for long-distance single-level coach designs; this has been popping up in Amtrak budget reports for a while. So I think Amtrak plans for Viewliner coaches.

Last I knew that car, 2300, was at the Wilmington Shops. Those who did the shop tour last year at the Gathering saw this car sitting outside one of the buildings where we started the tour. And there are several photos that got posted of that car.

I realize now that I ASSumed the work was being done at Beech Grove; perhaps the testbed work is being done at Wilmington? Or was it moved? Anyway, where-ever it's being done, it's being used to design a long-distance coach, and Amtrak is actually spending scarce cash on doing so.

 

[bgiaquin]

Thanks for the info.

+1

What does +1 mean?

 

[John Bredin]

Thanks for the info.

+1

What does +1 mean?

"I agree!" or "Ditto!" in internet usage.

 

[OBS]

For reference, one of the last two remaining "prototype Viewliner shells" is now being used at Beech Grove as a testbed for long-distance single-level coach designs; this has been popping up in Amtrak budget reports for a while. So I think Amtrak plans for Viewliner coaches.

Last I knew that car, 2300, was at the Wilmington Shops. Those who did the shop tour last year at the Gathering saw this car sitting outside one of the buildings where we started the tour. And there are several photos that got posted of that car.

I realize now that I ASSumed the work was being done at Beech Grove; perhaps the testbed work is being done at Wilmington? Or was it moved? Anyway, where-ever it's being done, it's being used to design a long-distance coach, and Amtrak is actually spending scarce cash on doing so.

It could very well have been moved. I saw the 2300 in Wilm about 2 months ago, but it looked like it was ready to be moved at that time. It had been brought out front by the "exchange" tracks next to the corridor. I thought that was kind of odd as I usually did not see it when going by on the train.

 

[MrFSS]

Amtrak Blog has some news and photos about the new cars. LINK

 

[Ryan]

Summer '14 for revenue service, according to the end of the video.

 

[jis]

Here's the video

 

[printman2000]

Did anyone notice the paint on these cars? Looks like Phase III along with the old Amtrak logo.

 

[Ryan]

Yeah, that's been discussed in the other thread.

http://discuss.amtraktrains.com/index.php?/topic/53554-acs-64-and-vl-iis-status/page-5

Confusing having the same conversation twice.

 

[bgiaquin]

PHASE III REVIVAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!