Viewliner II - Part 1 - Initial Production and Delivery

[NE933]

cautiously salivating....!!

 

[SarahZ]

That's a snazzy paint job.

 

[VT Hokie]

Gonna make for some crappy looking consists, with a mix of Phase III and the (much classier imo) Phase IV.

 

[jis]

Brian Gallagher had alluded to the possible move to Phase III last year at a sidebar conversation at an ESPA meeting last year. Generally people seem to like Phase III more than Phase IV apparently. It certainly is much brighter, compared to the more sombre Phase IV.

 

[VT Hokie]

I prefer Phase IV, but the most unfortunate thing about it is that whatever color scheme Amtrak goes with, trains look the worst when it's a mix of different ones. At least after many years of mix & match the fleet finally looks consistent.

 

[MikefromCrete]

Hopefully this will stop all the hand-wringing about where are the cars, will they actually be built, etc. The "old is new" paint scheme is neat. Mixing the various paint schemes certainly doesn't affect ridership or how the passenger experiences the trip. Stainless steel makes up the vast majority of the car sides. Most people won't even notice or care.

 

[TommyBNSF]

I thought it was really neat back in the early to mid 2000's with mixes of Phase III, IV, and V being used. Makes it look like a rainbow train.

 

[VT Hokie]

I thought it was really neat back in the early to mid 2000's with mixes of Phase III, IV, and V being used. Makes it look like a rainbow train.

It does make it look like a rainbow train. I thought that looked awful though!

 

[SarahZ]

Amtrack Auto Train
ShippingSidekick.com/AutoTrain

We ship cars for less than you can drive them there. Free quote here!




Off topic, but very much on this thread: I'd be more impressed

with this advertiser if they spelled the name right. Dayum.

I'm guessing that's a spam site, not an actual Amtrak site, so I wouldn't click it. In fact, maybe Anthony can get the ad removed.

 

[Ryan]

Anthony can't, he's retired.

GBAdmin, maybe.

 

[SarahZ]

Anthony can't, he's retired.

GBAdmin, maybe.

Acccckkkk. This weekend got me all confused again. Sorry, GB!

 

[NE933]

Somber is the right word. It looked ok in the beginning, but the dark navy, lots of grey, and a teeny bit of red sponges on any sort of uplift one can muster. We NEED something bright, even if it was a Phase 6 something different. Big time. Some color. Please! Thank you, Joe B.

 

[afigg]

Trains Magazine has a News Wire report with a few photos: Amtrak previews second-generation Viewliners with retro paint scheme. Unfortunately the report is behind a pay wall, so it is only accessible AFAIK to subscribers. The photo of a baggage car (sans paint scheme) shows 2 doors on each side in case people were wondering what the baggage cars would look like.

 

[jis]

This NARP Blog has some additional information. The VL IIs are not going to Pueblo at all. They will be tested at CAF and then on the NEC.

 

[NE933]

Then what takes so long, why do we have to wait until Summer 2014? We need this fleet to start ASAP, I mean, December of this year ought to be latest.

 

[Ryan]

It also says sleepers are coming last.

 

[Woody]

I think this order could work very well.

baggage cars on one track = 55

25 diners/ 25 crew dorms/ 25 sleepers = 75

Then add the 70-car option

more baggage cars on the same track = 30 = total 85 new baggage cars

15 sleepers/ 15 crew dorms/ 15 diners = 45 = total 120 other

Note that the option sleepers would come down

the assembly line immediately after the first 25

finish the first order.

One line could take another order for baggage cars,

up to 35 more, or it could shift into building coaches.

 

[afigg]

It also says sleepers are coming last.

Quoting the NARP blog: "During production, two types of cars will be produced—baggage cars throughout, and one other type of car in this sequence: diners first, then baggage dorms, then sleepers." The production order makes sense in terms of meeting the most critical need: replacing the heritage diners and baggage cars ASAP. The baggage-dorms will replace the heritage baggage cars and expand capacity in roomettes at the same time. There will be a transition period of switching from baggage cars to baggage-dorms and then adding sleeper cars to the LD trains where we may see rooms added for sale on short notice when they know which specific train will have the new equipment.

The delay of deployment to the summer of 2014 may be to build up a supply of the new diner cars so they can switch all the consists for an LD service to the new diner car in a couple of days as the trains pass through SSY. Then they can switch food supply service to supporting the new diner cars and on-board service to electronic POS system for that train.

The production order of the 25 diners first also indicates that if people want to take a meal in a heritage diner car before they are done, they should do so soon. The eastern LD trains could all switch to the new diner cars by the fall of 2014.

 

[afigg]

Then add the 70-car option

more baggage cars on the same track = 30 = total 85 new baggage cars

15 sleepers/ 15 crew dorms/ 15 diners = 45 = total 120 other

It is very unlikely that Amtrak will exercise the entire 70 car option, especially in the numbers of types specified. Especially 30 more baggage cars which is more than they need even with expansion in the foreseeable future. If Amtrak were to get more funding from Congress in FY14 or FY15, the best that could be hoped for would be a small matching number of baggage-dorms and diners, 10 to 15 sleepers, and then a few more baggage cars to round out the fleet.
The big push by Amtrak, if they can get any traction on Capitol Hill, would be for a follow-on order of coach and cafe-lounge cars, starting with Amfleet II replacements. With the CAF Elmira plant employing 400 to 500 people to build the Viewliners, go to Senators Schumer, Gillibrand and the NY House representatives and emphasize the good paying jobs that would be preserved with a series of follow-on orders for up to 700 single level cars spread over the next 10 years. Works for DOD contractors all the time, so Amtrak can try the same tactic.

 

[cpamtfan]

Adding to what afigg stated, it also makes things easier once they have a set number of cars avalible. Say you need 4 sets of new sleepers for the Silver Star. Well if you only have 1 new car avalible, where are the other cars coming from? It's all about timing it out, you can't just get one car and throw it into the black hole.

 

[Nathanael]

So, after watching the video from Amtrak with all the shots of the cars:

The oddest thing to me is that the baggage cars have doors which swing in, rather than roll-up doors. Perhaps it was decided that these were easier to seal shut against the weather. It reduces the usable space in the baggage car, however.

Also, the shelving units? It's very hard to tell, but it looks to me like there are a total of two rack-style shelves per unit, one basically on the floor and one halfway up; a very minor improvement in storage space. This *does* keep bags off the floor and prevents them from getting wet.

However, a bag-dorm is certainly going to handle the peak baggage load from NY on the LSL, and probably not on the Silver Meteor either -- it has less capacity than the existing baggage cars. The baggage section in a bag-dorm is a lot shorter than in a current "short" baggage car, and loses the space in front of the doors entirely. The second row of shelves doesn't make up for this. Amtrak will be adding full baggage cars to trains in peak; there will be no choice about this.

Finally, the baggage cars appear to be well-insulated (...unlike the existing baggage cars). This may allow for several possibilities.

 

[Nathanael]

uh, "certainly not going to handle..."

 

[Nathanael]

Quoting the NARP blog: "During production, two types of cars will be producedbaggage cars throughout, and one other type of car in this sequence: diners first, then baggage dorms, then sleepers."

The only unfortunate thing about this is that it may mean that the "deadline" for exercising a diner or bag-dorm option may be quite early. (I don't know. Perhaps it won't be so hard to switch the production line back from sleepers to bag-dorms or to diners.)

 

[Nathanael]

The delay of deployment to the summer of 2014 may be to build up a supply of the new diner cars so they can switch all the consists for an LD service to the new diner car in a couple of days as the trains pass through SSY. Then they can switch food supply service to supporting the new diner cars and on-board service to electronic POS system for that train.

I would also expect that Amtrak would want to switch an entire service to the new diners all at once.
With 75 non-baggage cars on the production line, with a planned final delivery late in 2015, and with the first car supposed to come off the line late this year, this indicates that roughly 37 cars will come off each line each year, or about 9-10 each quarter, starting Q1 2014. My guesses are based on these assumptions.

Now, we have been told that the LSL will get the first new cars. I have also been told that the LSL trainsets are currently routinely rotated with the Silver Star trainsets in the winter. This means that, in order to introduce the new diners during the winter, Amtrak would need at least 7 diners, plus a spare at each terminal (to avoid regressing service in case of problems), for a total of 10. But there won't *be* 10 diners in the winter -- not until spring. I would expect that the "Summer 2014" announcement is a sensible attempt to avoid overpromising, in case of delays; "Spring 2014" is more likely for the first deployment.

The diners should deploy pretty fast at that point. Calculating, the Heritage diners are likely to be retired by July 2014! (The Cardinal might receive a full dining car somewhat later than that.)

Speculating on bag-dorm deployment is more interesting to me. I don't think there will be enough to reliably deploy them until late in 2014. Amtrak might possibly be able to get the first deployment on one or two routes before Thanksgiving 2014 (there might possibly be as many as 11 bag-dorms by then, but probably fewer). Amtrak might want to deploy them before Thanksgiving 2014 to get the extra sleeper revenue, or Amtrak might not want to disrupt things immediately before Thanksgiving. I don't know.

Early spring 2015 should see all the bag-dorms deployed and still no new sleepers. I actually suspect that Amtrak will sit down and reassess sleeper demand over the next couple of months after that; having just added a lot of revenue space to each train via the bag-dorms, it may become much clearer how high the sleeping compartment demand actually is on individual trains. It will also start to be clear whether any trains will be likely to exceed the baggage capacity of the bag-dorm during peak, and this can be ascertained before the peak happens -- although this will be off-peak, standard patterns for peak vs. off-peak can be presumed. This will probably also be around the time when Amtrak has to commit to any exercise of the option (though the option may need to be exercised even earlier, I don't know).

 

[AlanB]

This NARP Blog has some additional information. The VL IIs are not going to Pueblo at all. They will be tested at CAF and then on the NEC.

Unless the production run is going to be different than the prototype, I do see one error in the NARP piece:

The dining cars have 12 tables, including one ADA table (seats on just one side).

Again, assuming that the prototype is the model, then there is a drop down seat on the wall at the ADA table. So it can either be used to provide normal seating at that table or it can be put up to accommodate wheelchair patron.

And of course this only actually works for the passenger in the H-room adjacent to the dining car. Those in subsequent sleepers will still be unable to roll through the hallways to reach the dining car. It also only works if Sunnyside actually orientates the dining car properly, something that they didn't do on the very first run of the reworked prototype.