Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[Anthony V]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

I would expect the Star to stay diner-less, no matter the equipment available. LSL got diner-lite because of heritage shortages. Cardinal got an even worse diner-lite for simpler operation and no chef (to pay). Equipment permitting, there's no reason to keep the LSL a diner-lite. Cardinal is a bit iffy, but one could make a case to restore it. The Silver Star system eliminates the entire dining car staff, doesn't give sleeper passengers free meals, AND only needs one locomotive. It's terrible for passengers, but is perfect for Amtrak. And there's the good ol' SM as an alternative.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the diner-lite and SS programs, but I think the Star is gonna stay this way.

.

AFAICT Cardinal does not have any real Diner Staff beyond the LSA (unless they have recently added an SA). Mostly the SCAs come in and help out to serve the food to the Sleeper passengers.

Also BTW, Cardinal has two consists, not one. So it will need at least two Diners to equip it with full Diner.

The much vaunted "glide path to profitability" of food service as a self standing P&L account, has been laid to rest with Mica and his henchman CFO at Amtrak both gone together with the NEC centric CEO. We'll see how all that impacts service quality and extent of availability as time goes on. Anderson has clearly stated that better food service is a goal, and some of it is already showing. As for how far they will go to improve things, only time will tell.

There may be more of a push to get a full diner on the Cardinal if efforts to make that train daily move forward. Daily service will double ridership, possibly prompting Amtrak to reinstate full dining service on the Cardinal. This would require three diners because a daily Cardinal would require three train sets according to the 2010 Cardinal PIP.

 

[cpotisch]

Silver Star is daily, a 4 hour longer trip than the Card, and has even worse food service then the Cardinal. The SS being a daily train didn't stop them from removing the diner. I just don't see why making the Card a daily train would cause restoration of diner service. Running 3 diners would cost Amtrak a ton of money, not to mention that they need to get the three diners in the first place. If running two diners doesn't work, 3 will be even more difficult. I do think it's possible that Amtrak would return the diner to 50/51, I just don't think daily service would make it any more appealing for them.

 

[PVD]

They are somewhat unrelated. The unbundling of meals and elimination of the diner on the SS is a financial experiment in response to Congressional pressures. The idea of the diners going onto the Cardinal relates to the potential ridership mix that a daily train would yield, this is believed by may to be a major improvement than its present circumstance.

 

[jis]

Also in this business, past experience, or even current experience gives very little guidance to what will happen in the future, near and far.

 

[cpotisch]

I guess so. I'm not exactly an expert with this kind of thing.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I guess so. I'm not exactly an expert with this kind of thing.

Neither is Congress, but that doesn't stop them.

 

[west point]

Wish there was a way to reduce F & B losses. Looking at July's MPR the losses amount to about $10 M per month for 1st ten months. How to reduce that is any one's guess ?.

 

[PVD]

How does that compare to prior years? better or worse?

 

[prewarlionelrailfan]

Hi everyone! It's been a year, actually two since I visited the thread... Just wanted to say, what an amazing video by Agent of the Silver Meteor posted on Sept 21st on page 33. I watched it 10x. The train seems to glide by at speed, with clean lines. The Siemens City Sprinter, the fluted coach cars, the viewliner sleepers, and Viewliner II baggage and diner. Awesome. My frustration with Amtrak and CAF made me loose interest in following the production, and I wondered if a consist like this was actually ever going to happen. Delays aside though, that train is a work of art.... and with the diner in tow, perhaps you could say "a moveable feast."

 

[Shanghai]

I was on the Silver Meteor yesterday. We had an old dining car without air conditioning!!

 

[jis]

Maybe it would be OK to replace an old Dining Car without Air-conditioning by a new Dining Car without Air-conditioning

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Maybe it would be OK to replace an old Dining Car without Air-conditioning by a new Dining Car without Air-conditioning

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[A Voice]

Maybe it would be OK to replace an old Dining Car without Air-conditioning by a new Dining Car without Air-conditioning

Turns out all that is required to fix the Viewliner's air conditioning issues was a minor modification to the windows. A shop in Tennessee will be performing the work under contract to CAF:

 

[Agent]

... what an amazing video by Agent of the Silver Meteor posted on Sept 21st on page 33.

I just posted it. I noted it was from the SuperStarRendon channel.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

... Running 3 diners [on the Card] would cost Amtrak a ton of money, not to mention that they need to get the three diners in the first place. If running two diners doesn't work, 3 will be even more difficult. ...

Even worse. A very convincing report recently claimed that a daily Cardinal would require four (4) train sets, not three (3) as suggested in the PRIIA study way back when. Obviously this would need more equipment when Amtrak has no such "more equipment". And it would greatly raise operating expense. Going from the 3-times-a-week schedule to daily, 7-times-a-week, was expected to be cheap. Currently the equipment is not used on the Cardinal on the off days and some crew gets paid for "away days" when they wait for the next train heading home.

But alas, someone claims there's not enuff turnaround time in NYC, with a 10 p.m. arrival Penn Station and a 6:45 morning departure (with too many late trains).

As usual, the solution would be more Amtrak -- and more $ for infrastructure. Indiana worked up a study on upgrading track from Indianapolis to the Illinois state line and running more frequencies of a daily Hoosier State. A mere $250 million or so there would take 29 minutes out of the run time. More time will be saved by a planned CREATE project in Chicago, and other upgrades are possible. Figure total time saved CHI-Indy at 1full hour. Push that down the line to NYC, arrive in Penn Station by 9 p.m. and depart 7:45 a.m., giving Sunnyside 2 more hours to turn the train. (I know there could be operating issues, time of stops in midway stations, etc. This proposal is a sketch, not a finished drawing.)

I'd hope that extra time would allow the Cardinal to run with only 3 sets of equipment. But it won't be soon.

 

[west point]

Why is it that some posters keep harping on turning train sets to same train service outbound ? If the Cardinal is very late at NYP the Crescent or Meteor set can be substituted for the outbound Cardinal. Of course there will have to be adjustments to consist. Then Cardinal inbound set can make that outbound. The Crescent inbound and outbound at NYP is what 20 hours. ?

 

[A Voice]

Why is it that some posters keep harping on turning train sets to same train service outbound ? If the Cardinal is very late at NYP the Crescent or Meteor set can be substituted for the outbound Cardinal. Of course there will have to be adjustments to consist. Then Cardinal inbound set can make that outbound. The Crescent inbound and outbound at NYP is what 20 hours. ?

The Crescent has virtually a full day (and the Meteor even longer), but it's hardly the only train requiring servicing at Sunnyside each night. You can't do them all at the exact same time. Not saying that it should or should not be possible to make an overnight turn, but that there are considerations other than raw number of hours between arrival and departure.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Why is it that some posters keep harping on turning train sets to same train service outbound ? If the Cardinal is very late at NYP the Crescent or Meteor set can be substituted for the outbound Cardinal. Of course there will have to be adjustments to consist. Then Cardinal inbound set can make that outbound. The Crescent inbound and outbound at NYP is what 20 hours. ?

I only know what I read in the papers on the blogs. LOL.

 

[Seaboard92]

Maybe it would be OK to replace an old Dining Car without Air-conditioning by a new Dining Car without Air-conditioning

Turns out all that is required to fix the Viewliner's air conditioning issues was a minor modification to the windows. A shop in Tennessee will be performing the work under contract to CAF:

Are you saying TVRM is doing the modifications?

 

[A Voice]

Are you saying TVRM is doing the modifications?

Should I have included the smiley face?

Presumably, a car with "adjustable open windows" doesn't ever have issues with air conditioning.

 

[Metra Electric Rider]

Are you saying TVRM is doing the modifications?

Should I have included the smiley face?

Presumably, a car with "adjustable open windows" doesn't ever have issues with air conditioning.

If they slow the train down, how about an open air dining car?

 

[Steve4031]

Would be great on jointed rail...

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Seaboard92]

I was actually asking seriously about TVRM as they do have the ability to fabricate parts for car owners and engine owners around the country. And it wouldn't have surprised me if they were doing it.

 

[jis]

I was actually asking seriously about TVRM as they do have the ability to fabricate parts for car owners and engine owners around the country. And it wouldn't have surprised me if they were doing it.

Then the serious answer is "No".

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Columbia hits the road today on 98(29).