Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[A Voice]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

One consideration is that the Silver Meteor operates out of Hialeah where the new Viewliner diners are based, currently the only dining car-equipped train to do so. I would expect the Crescent to come next (indeed, the new diners have already shown up there on some trainsets) simply to get the remaining Heritage cars out of service first.

 

[me_little_me]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect anything before December at the ABSOLUTE earliest at this rate. Probably Feb is my guess.

I notice you didn't say WHICH February! :hi:

 

[StriderGDM]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

One consideration is that the Silver Meteor operates out of Hialeah where the new Viewliner diners are based, currently the only dining car-equipped train to do so. I would expect the Crescent to come next (indeed, the new diners have already shown up there on some trainsets) simply to get the remaining Heritage cars out of service first.

Exactly. They won't bother to put diners back onto the LSL until all the Heritage diners are gone. Just not economically a good idea.

 

[neroden]

So, 11 diners for regular service before they can retire all the Heritage cars and have Viewdiners on SM, Crescent, LSL. (They can always use Amfleets for protect service.)

There are currently 10 in Amtrak hands, except that they seem to be spending too much time in the shop. C'mon, guys, repair the HVAC and one more delivery should do it...

 

[Acela150]

So, 11 diners for regular service before they can retire all the Heritage cars and have Viewdiners on SM, Crescent, LSL. (They can always use Amfleets for protect service.)

There are currently 10 in Amtrak hands, except that they seem to be spending too much time in the shop. C'mon, guys, repair the HVAC and one more delivery should do it...

Calm down. It's not that easy. You answered in your post why it won't happen. They would have to use Amfleets as protects. Call me crazy, but if I were on the Meteor or Crescent and I was told "Sorry sir the diner is a cafe car today because the full service diner wasn't ok for use on the rails." I'd be livid.

It'll happen. Everyone is so antsy to get these new cars online instead of enjoying what time we have left of the old. That drives me crazy. Ten years from now when the VL II's are in full service it'll be everyday stuff. I get it new toys we wanna rush to play with them. Just the time isn't right for it. When the Silverliner V's were coming out and Septa had a posted schedule on their website of when they would run my Dad had to be trackside for each and every run of the new cars possible. Me, I didn't care cause I knew that they'd be old news in a few years. Instead I focused on the old Budd and Louis cars. And I don't regret it. Yes I have a million and a half photos of Silverliner IV's. But in a few years it'll be the same deal all over again.

 

[GaSteve]

" Call me crazy, but if I were on the Meteor or Crescent and I was told "Sorry sir the diner is a cafe car today because the full service diner wasn't ok for use on the rails." I'd be livid. "

I've been on the Crescent when that happened.

 

[Steve4031]

Happened to me on the lsl. I wasn't happy. But I was no where close to furious. I was planning to eat in my room because I hate those cars. Then I walked through and saw the crew working double time to get everything ready for dinner. They were very friendly when I walked through. I changed my mind and ate in the amfleet car. It was one of my better dinners on the train.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Haven't been able to find out much info, but how are the Viewliner II diner cars different from the Heritage ones?

 

[Lonestar648]

The kitchen will be all new equipment, should be easier for the cooking staff. The additional windows provide better viewing of the passing scenery. A brand new car will not have the failures and safety issues that the Heritage Diners have.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

The Heritage diners are over 60 years old, and have been spending their life on Amtrak getting beaten into the ground with a mallet, and then duct taped and bailingwired back to life, so they can be again struck by a mallet. They are diners that used to run on pre-Amtrak streamliners.

The V2s are newly assembled cars built in one of the greater fusterclucks in car procurement history- although not as bad as that of the NS bi-levels.

 

[cpotisch]

Hello everyone! I was wondering about the expected distribution of the "Viewdiners" between the 4 meal-serving long-distance single-level routes: the Silver Meteor, Crescent, LSL, and Cardinal. From what I understand, the Meteor runs four consists at a time, same with the Crescent, LSL has three (forgetting about the ALB split), and the Card is just one? If I'm correct about that, for Amtrak to run full diners on every consist on those routes, that would mean 12 diners total. Is Amtrak expected to restore full diner service to the Cardinal (equipment permitting)? What routes are likely to get priority for the new cars? Was I correct about there being 12 consists total? If so, how much time should it take Amtrak and CAF to put the necessary remaining V-II diners into service? I'm pretty sure five are in service currently. I'll be traveling on the LSL mid-February 2018 and I'm hoping to get a real diner instead of Diner-Lite.

Thanks in advance for any answers you may have to any of those thousand questions! Have a good one!

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Hello everyone! I was wondering about the expected distribution of the "Viewdiners" between the 4 meal-serving long-distance single-level routes: the Silver Meteor, Crescent, LSL, and Cardinal. From what I understand, the Meteor runs four consists at a time, same with the Crescent, LSL has three (forgetting about the ALB split), and the Card is just one? If I'm correct about that, for Amtrak to run full diners on every consist on those routes, that would mean 12 diners total. Is Amtrak expected to restore full diner service to the Cardinal (equipment permitting)? What routes are likely to get priority for the new cars? Was I correct about there being 12 consists total? If so, how much time should it take Amtrak and CAF to put the necessary remaining V-II diners into service? I'm pretty sure five are in service currently. I'll be traveling on the LSL mid-February 2018 and I'm hoping to get a real diner instead of Diner-Lite.

Thanks in advance for any answers you may have to any of those thousand questions! Have a good one!

Might I suggest you read this thread and others devoted to the Viewliner IIs. Lots of information that will answer your questions in them.

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

Hello everyone! I was wondering about the expected distribution of the "Viewdiners" between the 4 meal-serving long-distance single-level routes: the Silver Meteor, Crescent, LSL, and Cardinal. From what I understand, the Meteor runs four consists at a time, same with the Crescent, LSL has three (forgetting about the ALB split), and the Card is just one? If I'm correct about that, for Amtrak to run full diners on every consist on those routes, that would mean 12 diners total. Is Amtrak expected to restore full diner service to the Cardinal (equipment permitting)? What routes are likely to get priority for the new cars? Was I correct about there being 12 consists total? If so, how much time should it take Amtrak and CAF to put the necessary remaining V-II diners into service? I'm pretty sure five are in service currently. I'll be traveling on the LSL mid-February 2018 and I'm hoping to get a real diner instead of Diner-Lite.

Thanks in advance for any answers you may have to any of those thousand questions! Have a good one!

The Cardinal requires 2 sets, so assuming dining cars were restored to it and not the Silver Star 13 would be needed (not counting spares). It seems as though the Silver Meteor and Crescent will be fully equipped first, followed by the Lake Shore Limited. The Cardinal and/or Silver Star may follow later.
Sent from my SM-J327P using Amtrak Forum mobile app

 

[cpotisch]

Hello everyone! I was wondering about the expected distribution of the "Viewdiners" between the 4 meal-serving long-distance single-level routes: the Silver Meteor, Crescent, LSL, and Cardinal. From what I understand, the Meteor runs four consists at a time, same with the Crescent, LSL has three (forgetting about the ALB split), and the Card is just one? If I'm correct about that, for Amtrak to run full diners on every consist on those routes, that would mean 12 diners total. Is Amtrak expected to restore full diner service to the Cardinal (equipment permitting)? What routes are likely to get priority for the new cars? Was I correct about there being 12 consists total? If so, how much time should it take Amtrak and CAF to put the necessary remaining V-II diners into service? I'm pretty sure five are in service currently. I'll be traveling on the LSL mid-February 2018 and I'm hoping to get a real diner instead of Diner-Lite.

Thanks in advance for any answers you may have to any of those thousand questions! Have a good one!

Might I suggest you read this thread and others devoted to the Viewliner IIs. Lots of information that will answer your questions in them.

Will do. I had posted that as a new topic, having not noticed this. Now I've got all the answers though!

 

[cpotisch]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

I would expect the Star to stay diner-less, no matter the equipment available. LSL got diner-lite because of heritage shortages. Cardinal got an even worse diner-lite for simpler operation and no chef (to pay). Equipment permitting, there's no reason to keep the LSL a diner-lite. Cardinal is a bit iffy, but one could make a case to restore it. The Silver Star system eliminates the entire dining car staff, doesn't give sleeper passengers free meals, AND only needs one locomotive. It's terrible for passengers, but is perfect for Amtrak. And there's the good ol' SM as an alternative.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the diner-lite and SS programs, but I think the Star is gonna stay this way.

 

[cpotisch]

Anyone know how many V-II Diners are in Amtrak's hands currently?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Anyone know how many V-II Diners are in Amtrak's hands currently?

Columbus was the latest one to be delivered. If you know your eastern state capitals in alphabetical order, you can count them, starting with the 2nd one (because Albany apparently will be the last one released). Not trying to be snarky. I don't remember the actual count so far.

 

[PVD]

There was a link in one of the threads to the OTOL list that has the names/numbers that will be used.....Albany went back, and one was skipped when Columbus came out. Not sure what that adds up to, but the number delivered is probably double the number actually in service. There is a bottomless pool of speculation, mostly focusing on HVAC as to what is keeping so many on the shelf. Even if all was well, they would spend some time in Hialeah for prep before hitting the road anyway.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Current list of diners released from CAF



68001 Annapolis 68002 Atlanta 68003 Augusta 68004 Baton Rouge 68005 Boston 68006 Charleston 68007 Columbia 68008 Columbus

 

[PVD]

I thought Columbia got skipped and Columbus came solo?

 

[tommylicious]

how many more before the LSL gets one u think?

 

[Eric S]

Wasn't that question about the LSL asked and answered about a week ago?

 

[cpotisch]

how many more before the LSL gets one u think?

Most likely 13 are needed. That's four for the SM, four the Crescent, three for the LSL, and two in reserve. I know for sure that 68001-68005 are in service. 68008 has been released but is not in service. I'm not sure about 68006 and 68007. Including 8400, that makes at least 7. That means we need another 4-6 cars to replace the LSL diner-lite.

 

[jis]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

I would expect the Star to stay diner-less, no matter the equipment available. LSL got diner-lite because of heritage shortages. Cardinal got an even worse diner-lite for simpler operation and no chef (to pay). Equipment permitting, there's no reason to keep the LSL a diner-lite. Cardinal is a bit iffy, but one could make a case to restore it. The Silver Star system eliminates the entire dining car staff, doesn't give sleeper passengers free meals, AND only needs one locomotive. It's terrible for passengers, but is perfect for Amtrak. And there's the good ol' SM as an alternative.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the diner-lite and SS programs, but I think the Star is gonna stay this way.

.

AFAICT Cardinal does not have any real Diner Staff beyond the LSA (unless they have recently added an SA). Mostly the SCAs come in and help out to serve the food to the Sleeper passengers.

Also BTW, Cardinal has two consists, not one. So it will need at least two Diners to equip it with full Diner.

The much vaunted "glide path to profitability" of food service as a self standing P&L account, has been laid to rest with Mica and his henchman CFO at Amtrak both gone together with the NEC centric CEO. We'll see how all that impacts service quality and extent of availability as time goes on. Anderson has clearly stated that better food service is a goal, and some of it is already showing. As for how far they will go to improve things, only time will tell.

 

[Anthony V]

Seems like Amtrak has established a priority list with SM being first, Crescent second, so would LSL be third? SS fourth?

I would expect the Star to stay diner-less, no matter the equipment available. LSL got diner-lite because of heritage shortages. Cardinal got an even worse diner-lite for simpler operation and no chef (to pay). Equipment permitting, there's no reason to keep the LSL a diner-lite. Cardinal is a bit iffy, but one could make a case to restore it. The Silver Star system eliminates the entire dining car staff, doesn't give sleeper passengers free meals, AND only needs one locomotive. It's terrible for passengers, but is perfect for Amtrak. And there's the good ol' SM as an alternative.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the diner-lite and SS programs, but I think the Star is gonna stay this way.

There may be more of a push to get a full diner on the Cardinal if efforts to make that train daily move forward. Daily service will double ridership, prompting Amtrak to reinstate full dining service on the Cardinal.