Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[neroden]

It appears that there are eight V-D's on the property plus the V-P 8400. This means if they all stay healthy all consists of the Meteor and Crescent can be protected with one spare. Add the two reported on their way and then eleven are available, allowing three spares.

Nothing further can be done until four more arrive. Then it is "decision time"; give 'em back to the Lake Shore with a spare for Chicago or to the Star?

The LSL needs a dining car yesterday. Amtrak's basically throwing money in the trash by not having one. The LSL used to have the highest coach-passenger patronage of the dining car of all the trains with dining cars, and they're certainly losing that patronage with the flatly-unacceptable menu being served today.

 

[neroden]

Yes, Atlanta will be in Chicago for that event.

I took a peek while I was there: my first view of the new dining cars. FWIW, I think the interior looks almost exactly like #8400, except that the "turn" around the kitchen is arranged differently and slightly more spacious, and there are some decorative frosted glass panels on the backs of a few of the booths.

 

[PVD]

I was on the Lake a few days ago. To characterize the menu as flatly unacceptable ? To whom? Certainly not to the people who ordered from it. Yes, it would be better to offer a few more choices, but smaller menus with good choices are a common business practice in the food service trade. All in all, the LSL crew did a pretty good job with the limited car, service was good, they took the time to make the plates look decent, it really wasn't that bad for 2 meals. Yes, a full diner returning should happen as soon as possible, but I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. A factor may have been that it wasn't that crowded a train, if they were really busy, it probably would have been harder to work in the limited environment.

 

[cpotisch]

Yes, Atlanta will be in Chicago for that event.

I took a peek while I was there: my first view of the new dining cars. FWIW, I think the interior looks almost exactly like #8400, except that the "turn" around the kitchen is arranged differently and slightly more spacious, and there are some decorative frosted glass panels on the backs of a few of the booths.

I walked through 8400 back when National Train Day came to Grand Central in 2012. As I previously mentioned, I dined in Atlanta on 97/98 back in June. The general look is the same, but the V-IIs do have some nicer details in my opinion.

On Viewliner IIs:

• There are Faux-wood panels on the aisle side of the booths
• The seats are black leather (not blue plastic)
• The aforementioned glass decorative panels (which I think look quite good)
• No more velcro curtains

 

[Thirdrail7]

I highly doubt they would equip the Lake Shore when they have 13 cars for 11 actual. If it happens, I would say they would wait until they have 15 operational diners (of any variety) available. This is particularly true with winter approaching. Hopefully, this will occur by the end of Jan. possibly Feb.

 

[jis]

I highly doubt they would equip the Lake Shore when they have 13 cars for 11 actual. If it happens, I would say they would wait until they have 15 operational diners (of any variety) available. This is particularly true with winter approaching. Hopefully, this will occur by the end of Jan. possibly Feb.

Yeah, I was thinking that.

I think cpotisch just took my back of the envelope 20% shop spare WAG and used that to arrive at the number 13.

 

[neroden]

The breakfast "menu" on the LSL right now is flatly unacceptable. Anyone who tolerates it has no standards whatsoever (and certainly no allergies). The options consist of mystery meat mash with no ingredients list. It wouldn't be tolerated in a high school cafeteria where I come from.

Small menus with good choices are great. This was a "menu" with no good choices.

And boy, the dining car was pretty empty when I walked out.

I didn't look at the other meals because I'm never on the train for them. But there isn't any breakfast on the LSL right now. That's the only way I can describe it.

 

[PerRock]

I don't see "Mystery meat mash" on the list here... Most this are pretty straight forward as to what they are. Although Amtrak does need to do a better job at providing proper ingredients lists for allergens.

Isn't Amtrak's food provided by one of the mega-food supplier companies, like Aramark? Maybe they have more info on the meals.

peter

 

[neroden]

That's because the list on Amtrak Food Facts is currently not accurate for the LSL. Another problem. The menu listed there was just fine, but that's not the menu on the actual train.

Bottom line: until they restore actual dining car service on the LSL, bring your own meals. The situation right now is far worse than the previous times when Amfleet IIs were used as substitute dining cars (those times were OK).

 

[PVD]

I had the french toast and a few strips of bacon, it was plated decently, and was not that bad. But each of us has our own opinions and standards. We can certainly be more sensitive to people with allergies, but it is just never going to be an obsession for the general population.

 

[neroden]

I had the french toast and a few strips of bacon,

Not available on my last trip, last week. Not even on the menu.

Either your information is out of date or they've *extremely* recently restored service. What day did you travel, and in which direction?

I would have been fine with bacon. Wasn't an option.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I’m tired of people posting how bad things are - based on their standards - and telling everyone else to avoid those things.

We all have OUR own level of tolerance for everything in OUR life and I, for one, would not tell someone to avoid something I personally did not like.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[neroden]

Well, I absolutely will tell people to avoid a situation where they have no idea what the menu is going to be when they walk in, because it may simply be missing everything. That's Soviet-level stuff. Bring your own food, or you have no guarantees that there will be anything.

I won't tell people to avoid any situation where it is *clear what your options will be*, but this is not that.

 

[PVD]

If there was a mismatch between the Food Facts page and the Menu, I would totally agree with you that that is inexcusable. I know we have a somewhat different opinion as to the degree of detail that an ingredients list can or should have, but I certainly think it should at least be reflective as to what is actually on the menu. Not sure of your date of travel, but in my case, a few days ago, the lists matched. As noted in the listing, they were switching French Toast selections to what they called an "improved" version, perhaps that explains some of why we saw it so differently. At least they recognized it needed improvement.

48, left Chicago Monday 11-6

 

[jis]

I’m tired of people posting how bad things are - based on their standards - and telling everyone else to avoid those things.

We all have OUR own level of tolerance for everything in OUR life and I, for one, would not tell someone to avoid something I personally did not like.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

While none of this has much to do with whether the food service car is a Viewliner II or not, I think this business about advising others on whether to do something or not is a thing that goes both ways. The advisors advise away whether anyone cares or not,

and the advisees (is that a word? - the receivers of advice I mean) evaluate the worth of any advice based on the previous known track record of the advisor. People know soon enough who are the chicken little and who are the sage ones. Having played both sides of this game, this is my experience of how things actually work, as far as that goes.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I for one appreciate "boots on the ground" reports from our members with recent expierences when it comes to things Amtrak, and other travel info, since the various for profit travel sites and the Official Company sites are so varied as to info and usually out of date in most instances. YMMV

 

[PVD]

As Cardinal Ratzinger said (pre Benedict XVI days) "Truth is not determined by a majority vote"

As Daniel Patrick Moynihan said (pre train station days) "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, just not to his own facts"

As to the actual subject, Viewliner deliveries will be a major plus, one food fact we probably all agree on is that most people are more satisfied with food served in a cleaner and brighter atmosphere. The sleeper I was in was clean, and everything worked, but it definitely looked tired, and in need of a refurb. Little things like one brand new curtain (someone must have replaced a bad one) against a bunch of sun faded ones.....A bunch of new cars would allow a few more off the line for a little longer. Bag dorm makes sense on a train where roomettes sell well, and the OBS crew is large....we all know these things, and we are moving forward toward some resolution, albeit (sadly) at a glacially slow pace.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Amtrak substituting ingredients and items with disregard for people with allegies *is* unacceptable, patently. Nate alerting those who have allergies that this is the case, and that they should bring their own food is fair. But he should mention that this is only for people with allergies.

This is a totally different subject than whether or not the food is good.

 

[cpotisch]

Does it seem likely that at this pace and from what (little) is known, the LSL should have it's diner back by Feb?

 

[Ryan]

No.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Is it agreed that at this pace and from what (little) we know, that the LSL should have it's diner back by Feb?

No.

Ryan is correct. "We" have not agreed on anything. We have no idea when or if the Lake Shore Limited will resume full dining car service. For all we know, CAF will not meet their next projected delivery. For all we know, Amtrak may await completion of multiple cars before they make a trip to pick them up. For all we know, there could be another storm that inhibits the ability to ship the car(s) to Florida for acceptance. For all we know, Chicago may want more exposure to the cars prior to restoration of service. For all we know, these cars could develop some sort of unforeseen "Lake Effect" cold problem that hinders their movements in the winter. For all we know, Amtrak is planning on putting dining cars on the train by Thanksgiving.

"We" will just have to wait and see.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Amtrak substituting ingredients and items with disregard for people with allegies *is* unacceptable, patently. Nate alerting those who have allergies that this is the case, and that they should bring their own food is fair. But he should mention that this is only for people with allergies.

This is a totally different subject than whether or not the food is good.

i agree that warnings are ok regarding allergens (and I meant to include something about that in my post, but when I’m posting from my phone I sometimes forget things I’m thinking while I’m typing).

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[PVD]

But the problem has many facets. First of all, there are common food allergies that we have become accustomed to seeing warnings for, and less common ones where people are allergic to things that very few people are. You can't put up a warning for everything, that is why ingredient lists are important. But that brings up the next set of issues wherein vendors are constantly changing suppliers for component ingredients, the contents of which are poorly regulated. These are not one sided issues, say for example you react seriously to dog hair or dander, but I have a passenger with a legit service dog. Unless the dog is misbehaving, I can't bar it from the diner, but on the other hand I would like to accommodate you. If I tell one of you to stay out I'll probably get sued.

 

[jis]

Is it agreed that at this pace and from what (little) we know, that the LSL should have it's diner back by Feb?

No.

Ryan is correct. "We" have not agreed on anything. We have no idea when or if the Lake Shore Limited will resume full dining car service. For all we know, CAF will not meet their next projected delivery. For all we know, Amtrak may await completion of multiple cars before they make a trip to pick them up. For all we know, there could be another storm that inhibits the ability to ship the car(s) to Florida for acceptance. For all we know, Chicago may want more exposure to the cars prior to restoration of service. For all we know, these cars could develop some sort of unforeseen "Lake Effect" cold problem that hinders their movements in the winter. For all we know, Amtrak is planning on putting dining cars on the train by Thanksgiving.

"We" will just have to wait and see.

In short - que sera sera - whatever will be will be. Just get used to being patient.

 

[PVD]

Fair enough point. We have 60+ percent of the cars from this order, just not enough of the ones some of us would appreciate the most. As an East Coast sleeper rider I am resigned to biding my time!