Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[neroden]

If we continue to get two dining cars per month, they'll all be in service around the end of next June. I would actually expect the bag-dorms to come next, and if they're still coming out at two per month, that takes us almost to the end of 2018. :-(

 

[OlympianHiawatha]

I am hearing rumbles about 2019 being the earliest when one can expect the Sleepers. I hope it is earlier than that.

If that is the case, then this entire CAF order has gotten completely out of hand as far as "timely" delivery is concerned; I would hope Amtrak could sue to recover a good portion of their investment.

 

[neroden]

I am hearing rumbles about 2019 being the earliest when one can expect the Sleepers. I hope it is earlier than that.

If that is the case, then this entire CAF order has gotten completely out of hand as far as "timely" delivery is concerned; I would hope Amtrak could sue to recover a good portion of their investment.

Well, Amtrak only pays upon delivery. The result is that Amtrak has had extra cash for years on end and has collected the interest on it. (Though, more accurately, what Amtrak has done is to pay off old debt and *stop* paying the interest on that.) I suspect Amtrak gets a discount for anything which has to be done as "field mods" which should have been done by CAF as well.

(By the way, did anyone notice that the Penn Station Mortgage matured in June? I actually really want to see updated Amtrak 2017 financial statements... all the old high-interest-rate loans have been going away recently, which helps.)

 

[AmtrakLKL]

I am hearing rumbles about 2019 being the earliest when one can expect the Sleepers. I hope it is earlier than that.

That seems quite optimistic.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I am hearing rumbles about 2019 being the earliest when one can expect the Sleepers. I hope it is earlier than that.

That seems quite optimistic.

This.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Another something to give Thanks for this week!

 

[pennyk]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Has this been confirmed? I am close enough to walk to the tracks to see for myself, but it is running late and will interfere with yoga class.

 

[cpotisch]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

 

[AmtrakBlue]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

 

[cpotisch]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

Is there any reason to believe that it would be moved to the Crescent ("After tomorrow, who knows")? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

 

[Thirdrail7]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

Do we have reason to believe it would be moved off the Meteor? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

We don't have any reason to believe it would move off the Meteor unless the car is shopped. We've explained this to you before:

I'm sorry. I should I have been a lot clearer. What I meant is that I wonder why Amtrak has been constantly cycling diners on the Meteor recently. Those cars aren't being seen on the Crescent, so clearly many cars are being taken out of service for short bouts. This might indicate reliability issues.

That has been standard operating procedure since the first viewliner bags rolled off the line. Their main mechanical base is on the Meteor's route so when they initial enter service, they stay on the route during the break in period. The 68001-68005 and the 8400 have all been used on the Crescent.

68012 is currently protecting with heritage equipment.

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Another something to give Thanks for this week!

Here's something to think about. Unless there is shopped car, tomorrow will mark the day when all eastern trains with dining cars will run with a viewliner .

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Do we have reason to believe it would be moved off the Meteor? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

Aside from Harrisburg being backwards, it is also ready for service. Just a quick loop around the, er, loop, and it’ll be good to go.

Of course, there is a whole line of Heritage diners in Hialeah ready for service, too.

 

[cpotisch]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

Is there any reason to believe that it would be moved to the Crescent ("After tomorrow, who knows")? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

We don't have any reason to believe it would move off the Meteor unless the car is shopped. We've explained this to you before:

I'm sorry. I should I have been a lot clearer. What I meant is that I wonder why Amtrak has been constantly cycling diners on the Meteor recently. Those cars aren't being seen on the Crescent, so clearly many cars are being taken out of service for short bouts. This might indicate reliability issues.

That has been standard operating procedure since the first viewliner bags rolled off the line. Their main mechanical base is on the Meteor's route so when they initial enter service, they stay on the route during the break in period. The 68001-68005 and the 8400 have all been used on the Crescent.

68012 is currently protecting with heritage equipment.

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Another something to give Thanks for this week!

Here's something to think about. Unless there is shopped car, tomorrow will mark the day when all eastern trains with dining cars will run with a viewliner .

There have been past days when the Crescent and SM have been fully outfitted with Viewliners at the same time - just not often. Regardless, I think its safe to say that Amtrak has a sufficient Viewliner fleet to permanently ditch the Heritage Diners.

 

[Thirdrail7]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

Is there any reason to believe that it would be moved to the Crescent ("After tomorrow, who knows")? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

We don't have any reason to believe it would move off the Meteor unless the car is shopped. We've explained this to you before:

I'm sorry. I should I have been a lot clearer. What I meant is that I wonder why Amtrak has been constantly cycling diners on the Meteor recently. Those cars aren't being seen on the Crescent, so clearly many cars are being taken out of service for short bouts. This might indicate reliability issues.

That has been standard operating procedure since the first viewliner bags rolled off the line. Their main mechanical base is on the Meteor's route so when they initial enter service, they stay on the route during the break in period. The 68001-68005 and the 8400 have all been used on the Crescent.

68012 is currently protecting with heritage equipment.

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Another something to give Thanks for this week!

Here's something to think about. Unless there is shopped car, tomorrow will mark the day when all eastern trains with dining cars will run with a viewliner .

There have been past days when the Crescent and SM have been fully outfitted with Viewliners at the same time. Just not often

There has NEVER been a time to my knowledge when ALL 8 sets (4 Meteor sets and 4 Crescents) have been equipped with LDSL at the same time. It may not even happen tomorrow if there is shopper.

Do you have a footage or even anecdotal evidence to back up your statement?

 

[cpotisch]

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Crescent or Meteor?

Most likely on 98 right now. Where it goes after arriving in NY tomorrow, who knows.

Is there any reason to believe that it would be moved to the Crescent ("After tomorrow, who knows")? Also, if Hartford is ready, is Harrisburg as well?

We don't have any reason to believe it would move off the Meteor unless the car is shopped. We've explained this to you before:

I'm sorry. I should I have been a lot clearer. What I meant is that I wonder why Amtrak has been constantly cycling diners on the Meteor recently. Those cars aren't being seen on the Crescent, so clearly many cars are being taken out of service for short bouts. This might indicate reliability issues.

That has been standard operating procedure since the first viewliner bags rolled off the line. Their main mechanical base is on the Meteor's route so when they initial enter service, they stay on the route during the break in period. The 68001-68005 and the 8400 have all been used on the Crescent.

68012 is currently protecting with heritage equipment.

The maiden voyage of Hartford shall commence tomorrow.

Another something to give Thanks for this week!

Here's something to think about. Unless there is shopped car, tomorrow will mark the day when all eastern trains with dining cars will run with a viewliner .

There have been past days when the Crescent and SM have been fully outfitted with Viewliners at the same time - just not often. Regardless, I think its safe to say that Amtrak has a sufficient Viewliner fleet to permanently ditch the Heritage Diners.

There has NEVER been a time to my knowledge when ALL 8 sets (4 Meteor sets and 4 Crescents) have been equipped with LDSL at the same time. It may not even happen tomorrow if there is shopper.

Do you have a footage or even anecdotal evidence to back up your statement?

I sincerely apologize if my tone or words sounded disrespectful. A couple months ago, there were times that the 8 or 9 Viewliners seemed sufficient and I didn't hear about or see any Heritage Diners in service on either train (and there were accounts of all 8 or 9 diners in service). If this was incorrect, again, I am genuinely sorry.

 

[Ngotwalt]

I think we have seen as high as seven of eight. I know at one point from a friend that there were only two heritage diners active, but then that number went back up to at least four or five.

Nick

 

[cpotisch]

Is CAF expected (if not guaranteed) to deliver new diners by the end of Nov?

 

[Thirdrail7]

I think we have seen as high as seven of eight. I know at one point from a friend that there were only two heritage diners active, but then that number went back up to at least four or five.

Nick

Exactly. We had 7 for 8 available at one point. Now that the 68012/13 are available, breathing has been created.

Of course, there is a whole line of Heritage diners in Hialeah ready for service, too.

Stop hoarding the Heritages!! Deploy the fleet!! Send two to CHI and two to NOL for a month or so.

Is CAF expected (if not guaranteed) to deliver new diners by the end of Nov?

You will not see new diners by the end of NOV. Even if CAF released them tomorrow, no one could pick them up before December.

 

[nti1094]

Not that it is an authoritative answer, but I just got off the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to NYC today, be the lounge car attendant said they were expecting the diners to be back at the end of August. He also noted he had yet to be trained in. the V2 diners.

At least it seems that internally Amtrak is giving the impression the LSL will

get diners again.

As for my impression of the diner light, After just doing a trip rom

CA on the Zephyr and then LSL, I think the food in the amfleet diner light was better.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[nti1094]

Not that it is an authoritative answer, but I just got off the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to NYC today, be the lounge car attendant said they were expecting the diners to be back at the end of August. He also noted he had yet to be trained in. the V2 diners.

At least it seems that internally Amtrak is giving the impression the LSL will

get diners again.

As for my impression of the diner light, After just doing a trip rom

CA on the Zephyr and then LSL, I think the food in the amfleet diner light was better.

That said, the pancakes on the Zephyr were exceptional and fluffy. I did however find the Amfleet "breakfast bowl" to be tasty and filling.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[cpotisch]

Not that it is an authoritative answer, but I just got off the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to NYC today, be the lounge car attendant said they were expecting the diners to be back at the end of August. He also noted he had yet to be trained in. the V2 diners.

At least it seems that internally Amtrak is giving the impression the LSL will

get diners again.

As for my impression of the diner light, After just doing a trip rom

CA on the Zephyr and then LSL, I think the food in the amfleet diner light was better.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

If we have to wait until until the freaking end of August, I am gonna throw a cinder block through someone's windshield. I just don't see any reason why it could take that long. With 11 cars finished so far, only two more are required (and yes I know I've said this before) to reach a 20% shop margin plus the 11 consists. Though Amtrak management is slow to change, LSL ridership and sales are definitely hindered by the diner-lites. Management may not care about the customer, but they do about the bottom line, and the longer the LSL is kept this way, the longer ridership and revenue continue to suffer. In short, sooner is better for both Amtrak and it's passengers, so once equipment permits it, the LSL 'should' receive it's dining car relatively quickly. CAF's two-a-month goal has been met for the past four months, so I would say that the 12th and 13th diners' delivery and completion at Hialeah can be expected by the end of December. Beyond that, I have no idea.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why whats wrong with 8400?

 

[Thirdrail7]

If we have to wait until until the freaking end of August, I am gonna throw a cinder block through someone's windshield. I just don't see any reason why it could take that long. With 11 cars finished so far, only two more are required (and yes I know I've said this before) to reach a 20% shop margin plus the 11 consists.

Where are you getting this 20% shop margin from? What relevance does that have? Who said that was a deciding factor in deciding diner car allotments?

Though Amtrak management is slow to change, LSL ridership and sales are definitely hindered by the diner-lites. Management may not care about the customer, but they do about the bottom line, and the longer the LSL is kept this way, the longer ridership and revenue continue to suffer. In short, sooner is better for both Amtrak and it's passengers, so once equipment permits it, the LSL 'should' receive it's dining car relatively quickly.

What proof are you offering to back up your statement regarding ridership and sales being hindered by the diner-lites? What makes you think ridership is suffering solely because it doesn't have a full diner? What makes you think revenue is suffering?

When the official year end report comes out, I'm willing to bet you'll find a slight uptick in ridership and revenue along the route despite the lack of a dining car. Along with that, costs will have dropped since crew members were eliminated when the diner-lites were added.

Additionally, IF the LSL receives a dining car (which I assume it will), why do we assume it will happen before they restore a dining car to the Silver Star? After all, if we're reinstating cars, why not put it on their home route, where the people are already qualified? If they equip the Star first, I can see summer being a reasonable bet for the LSL.

Why whats wrong with 8400?

It is due for PM.

 

[cpotisch]

If we have to wait until until the freaking end of August, I am gonna throw a cinder block through someone's windshield. I just don't see any reason why it could take that long. With 11 cars finished so far, only two more are required (and yes I know I've said this before) to reach a 20% shop margin plus the 11 consists.

Where are you getting this 20% shop margin from? What relevance does that have? Who said that was a deciding factor in deciding diner car allotments?

Though Amtrak management is slow to change, LSL ridership and sales are definitely hindered by the diner-lites. Management may not care about the customer, but they do about the bottom line, and the longer the LSL is kept this way, the longer ridership and revenue continue to suffer. In short, sooner is better for both Amtrak and it's passengers, so once equipment permits it, the LSL 'should' receive it's dining car relatively quickly.

What proof are you offering to back up your statement regarding ridership and sales being hindered by the diner-lites? What makes you think ridership is suffering solely because it doesn't have a full diner? What makes you think revenue is suffering?

When the official year end report comes out, I'm willing to bet you'll find a slight uptick in ridership and revenue along the route despite the lack of a dining car. Along with that, costs will have dropped since crew members were eliminated when the diner-lites were added.

Additionally, IF the LSL receives a dining car (which I assume it will), why do we assume it will happen before they restore a dining car to the Silver Star? After all, if we're reinstating cars, why not put it on their home route, where the people are already qualified? If they equip the Star first, I can see summer being a reasonable bet for the LSL.

Why whats wrong with 8400?

It is due for PM.

Can we keep this civil please? Even if you disagree with what I say, I have been pretty respectful here, and it is unnecessary to say:"Where are you getting this 20% shop margin from? What relevance does that have? Who said that was a deciding factor in deciding diner car allotments?...What proof are you offering to back up your statement regarding ridership and sales being hindered by the diner-lites? What makes you think ridership is suffering solely because it doesn't have a full diner? What makes you think revenue is suffering?"

​Thank you.