Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[west point]

Here and other sites seem to proffer that once the V-2 sleepers are fully active that Amtrak will withdraw a like number for overhaul / modifications. That seems wildly over speculative. Probably more likely 3 -4 at most will be removed from service at a time for said modifications. That will give Amtrak at least 70 sleepers for continuing service.

A problem that we have neglected is the possibility of much more equipment. There will be more locos. As well we are expecting another ~ 48 V-2s, 130 Siemens cars, 28 Acela-2 train sets. ( What happens to the AC-1s is still only speculation ). All this equipment will require additional overnight storage locations ( especially tight in the NEC ), more assistant conductors, more OBS personnel, and most important more maintenance persons. Will check for the current number of maintenance persons. Just percentage wise about 20% more ?

First we have no idea of the various ages of present maintenance persons and expected retirement times. Second there is not a very good supply of possible new hire maintenance persons who know anything about passenger equipment - locos yes cars no. Have not heard of any schools or apprentice programs to fill the vacancies that will be occurring. Aero space programs may provide some interior skilled persons.

EDIT Best determination of mechanical and engineering persons is 3300 so maybe ? 660 additional persons not counting retirements.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

watching mindless speculation is painful.

 

[A Voice]

watching mindless speculation is painful.

The forum doesn't have a 'like' button, so I'll quote it instead.

 

[jis]

Actually it is all these wannabe Amtrak CEOs.

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[Ziv]

In the absence of real news, deliveries or announcements, in my eyes prognostication is better than ambivalence. There are worse things to do than put your guesses about what will happen out there for others to agree with or disagree with.

If it weren't for guesstimates, this thread would be about 4 pages long, not 54. I guess you can look at the glass as being half full or half empty. ;-)

 

[tricia]

In the absence of real news, deliveries or announcements, in my eyes prognostication is better than ambivalence. There are worse things to do than put your guesses about what will happen out there for others to agree with or disagree with.

If it weren't for guesstimates, this thread would be about 4 pages long, not 54. I guess you can look at the glass as being half full or half empty. ;-)

Or, at 54 pages, perhaps overflowing.

 

[Ryan]

Welcome to page 55!

 

[A Voice]

In the absence of real news, deliveries or announcements, in my eyes prognostication is better than ambivalence. There are worse things to do than put your guesses about what will happen out there for others to agree with or disagree with.

If it weren't for guesstimates, this thread would be about 4 pages long, not 54. I guess you can look at the glass as being half full or half empty. ;-)

I don't disagree, but there is a critical difference between "mindless speculation" and completely baseless prognostication as opposed to predictions (or even educated guesses) based on some manner of semi-confirmed factual information. The person who attempts to piece the puzzle together (even though they're missing more pieces than they have) at least has some basis for their predictions.

 

[keelhauled]

Actually it is all these wannabe Amtrak CEOs.

What? You mean there's more to the job than drawing lines on maps and reading old timetables? Guess I'm going to have to take a second look at my résumé.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

I would never want to be Amtrak CEO. You get thrust into an office with more chains on what you can do than leads in a sleep apnea test, far less tools than you need, constantly flipping between a Hobsons choice and a catch-22.

And the every blithering ***** of a Railfan, or self importan egoist of a transit advocate second guesses what few dance moves you can make, while congress hauls you over the coals for a mess often largely of their own making.

I love problems. I love extremely difficult problems. But not ones that are unsolvable.

 

[Bob Dylan]

In the absence of real news, deliveries or announcements, in my eyes prognostication is better than ambivalence. There are worse things to do than put your guesses about what will happen out there for others to agree with or disagree with.

If it weren't for guesstimates, this thread would be about 4 pages long, not 54. I guess you can look at the glass as being half full or half empty. ;-)

This!

 

[cpotisch]

What is the point of retrofitting V-Is with V-II interiors? The only point I see in that would be to stop having to maintain roomette toilets, but wouldn't the cost of refurbishment probably be greater than those savings, right?

 

[jis]

What is the point of retrofitting V-Is with V-II interiors? The only point I see in that would be to stop having to maintain roomette toilets, but wouldn't the cost of refurbishment probably be greater than those savings, right?

One significant issue is that apparently there is at least some potential loss of customers because the new generation of customers are repelled by the WC in the room.

Even back in the days, in room toilets were often hidden away under the berth so no one had to develop as intimate a physical relationship with it while sleeping, as one gets to do in a Roomette. Also, there still tended to be a shared toilet at the end of the car.

But of course, given how scarce Sleeper inventory is compared to demand probably a bit of customer inconvenience does not matter that much.

The second issue is in having two relatively small but distinct inventory of cars with different layouts that have to be handled by the reservation system and consist construction and maintenance. Having a single somewhat larger inventory of cars all with the same layout will be much easier to handle.

So just savings calculated in a simple minded way is not what it is all about.

 

[StanJazz]

How would you like it if you were in the last roomette in a V-I and due to the car being bad ordered it was replaced with a V-II and your room # did not exist. Coach for you.

 

[Ryan]

Additionally, the VL1's are getting a bit on the worn out side. They need to be refurbished, and the best way to do that is to use the same interior fittings that you're already procuring.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Additionally, the VL1's are getting a bit on the worn out side. They need to be refurbished, and the best way to do that is to use the same interior fittings that you're already procuring.

This!

 

[west point]

However there may still be unused V-1 interiors for V-1 refurbishment?. That would be a waste of money that our congressional critters would jump on .

 

[daybeers]

How would you like it if you were in the last roomette in a V-I and due to the car being bad ordered it was replaced with a V-II and your room # did not exist. Coach for you.

What do you mean?

 

[brianpmcdonnell17]

How would you like it if you were in the last roomette in a V-I and due to the car being bad ordered it was replaced with a V-II and your room # did not exist. Coach for you.

What do you mean?

Viewliner IIs have one less roomette than Viewliner Is due to the space for a public restroom, so if a train was scheduled to use a Viewliner I but used a Viewliner II instead there would be one less room, resulting in a passenger being forced into coach if the train was sold out.
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[StanJazz]

The V-I cars have 12 roomettes plus the SCA's room while the V-II have only 11 rooms plus the SCA. The space for the missing room is used by the new restrooms. Where would they put you if your ticket said room 12 but when you got on the train there was no room 12 because the last room was 11.

 

[stappend]

I would think short term a train consist would need to be all the same type, or it would be a nightmare. I can't believe that Amtrak can predict 100% what cars are going to be on a consist 6, 9, 11 months down the road.

 

[jis]

One alternative is to sell only 11 rooms in each Viewliner Car and if a Viewliner I shows up in the consist on a particular day, sell it as a last minute upgrade for cheap to the first comer.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

One alternative is to sell only 11 rooms in each Viewliner Car and if a Viewliner I shows up in the consist on a particular day, sell it as a last minute upgrade for cheap to the first comer.

Could they send the SCA to a coach seat instead of a revenue customer? Or does the VL2's SCA room feature alert panels or other antiquated single purpose concepts like the SL fleet?

 

[Ryan]

However there may still be unused V-1 interiors for V-1 refurbishment?.

What makes you think that this is the case?

One alternative is to sell only 11 rooms in each Viewliner Car and if a Viewliner I shows up in the consist on a particular day, sell it as a last minute upgrade for cheap to the first comer.

Could they send the SCA to a coach seat instead of a revenue customer? Or does the VL2's SCA room feature alert panels or other antiquated single purpose concepts like the SL fleet?

We already have enough complaints about absentee SCAs, without taking away their space in the car. Would you expect them to stand in the hallway for 18 hours a day to be available to their passengers, or for the passengers to have to walk through several cars to get assistance?

 

[JRR]

I guess my wife and I are the odd balls here but the toilet in the roomette is a plus for us. After 52 years together we are over any “ shyness” with each other and, in the middle of the night, neither of us wants to struggle to get dressed and wander down the train looking for a restroom.

While the bedroom with a shower is better, the Viewliner roomette is a more economical alternative.

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