Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[Anderson]

So, we're soon (e.g. in a month or two) going to have enough V2s to reinstate a diner on the LSL. Once that happens, what is the plan for the remaining diners? Amtrak is taking delivery of 25 diners, but as of right now only 11 plus protect/shop covers are needed, giving probably 8-11 (if we include 8400) "spares".

 

[WoodyinNYC]

So, we're soon (e.g. in a month or two) going to have enough V2s to reinstate a diner on the LSL. Once that happens, what is the plan for the remaining diners? Amtrak is taking delivery of 25 diners, but as of right now only 11 plus protect/shop covers are needed, giving probably 8-11 (if we include 8400) "spares".

Remember near the dawn of time when the announced plan was for CAF to build baggage cars on one production line and on the other one to assemble the diners, the bag/dorms, and then sleepers? The plan changed to first build all the baggage cars a.s.a.p. using both lines.

Now we all probably assume CAF and Amtrak will continue producing two cars a month using both lines even as production shifts to bag/dorms and then sleepers.

So in about 2 or 3 months, Amtrak may have about enuff diners for today's demand. I'd cut back on diners to produce one a month, on one line. And on the other line start up bag/dorms. In other words, bring forward half a dozen bag/dorms that will immediately produce revenue, while postponing an equal number of what may be surplus and excess diners.

This move would to some extent postpone the decisions on what to do with a handful of surplus and excess diners. It allows other ideas to percolate while the facts on the ground may shift, for better or worse. For example, one political possibility is that if the Trillion dollar tax gut bill passes, it will be followed by massive spending cuts, including a deadly whack at Amtrak. On the other hand, after the Congressional election in November 2018, appropriations could increase substantially.

On another front, currently, and next year and the next, Amtrak has no spare single-level coaches to use for anything new or different. But when the [Nippon Sharyo] Siemens order starts to deliver 137 new cars, mostly to the Midwest, some 70 - 90 Horizon cars could cascade to other routes.

Again, depending on the election returns next year, a massive order could be placed to replace , and possibly to expand, the current flee of Eastern trains. So at some point it could be possible to add a revived "Broadway Ltd", to extend a branch off the Crescent to Dallas, and so forth.

If replacing the fleet is only possible in a half-funded, half-assed way, which we might expect of Congress, so that only added single-level cars are available soonish, but no new bi-levels, then switching the Capitol Ltd. to single-level equipment would free up Superliners to augment the Western fleet; likewise with the City of New Orleans. But to make such equipment changes, Amtrak would need more Viewliner diners. In that case, once enuff coaches are available, the surplus and excess of diners we fear now would be put to good use.

O.K. Enuff thinking big picture.

With a potential surplus of diners, could they be added to existing day trains? Without sleeping car revenues to offset the diner losses, it could reveal awkward numbers, or not. But are we sure there would be losses if the Palmetto or Carolinian, or the Pennsylvanian, or the Maple Leaf or Adirondack offered sit-down, table dining? Yeah, I know, you can grab a breakfast in Penn Station, but I'd gladly pay another $10 or maybe $20 to sleep 20 minutes later and eat breakfast at leisure onboard. Or maybe any dining car losses could be hidden by including meals in a business class fare.

Or try two diners on the Meteor, maybe one full kitchen and one and a half cars of tables, with the other kitchen operating diner lite or as a lounge, with mostly snacks and sandwiches to take back to your seat. (Eliminating only one chef's position saves over $600,000 a year on the City of New Orleans.)

Last but not least, if it becomes clear that five or six diners really are surplus and excess, well, the Viewliners are supposed to be modular. So write them off as a loss -- folded in with the larger CAF loss who will know or care? -- and blame it all on Boardman. LOL. Then rip out the kitchen and table modules, and insert roomette modules to make new sleepers at a bargain price. I'm sure Amtrak can find a way to add another sleeper to one of the Eastern trains.

 

[A Voice]

So, we're soon (e.g. in a month or two) going to have enough V2s to reinstate a diner on the LSL. Once that happens, what is the plan for the remaining diners? Amtrak is taking delivery of 25 diners, but as of right now only 11 plus protect/shop covers are needed, giving probably 8-11 (if we include 8400) "spares".

There really aren't any surplus dining cars. The Silver Star and a daily Cardinal, plus the necessary spares, basically account for the remainder. No, there is no actual confirmation that diners will return to those trains. But while the service model might well differ from a traditional dining car experience (not necessarily always a bad thing), it is a bit hard to envision Amtrak opting to retain high mileage, thirty-five year old Amfleet II lounge cars while brand-new Viewliner diners sit unneeded.

 

[Anderson]

So, we're soon (e.g. in a month or two) going to have enough V2s to reinstate a diner on the LSL. Once that happens, what is the plan for the remaining diners? Amtrak is taking delivery of 25 diners, but as of right now only 11 plus protect/shop covers are needed, giving probably 8-11 (if we include 8400) "spares".

There really aren't any surplus dining cars. The Silver Star and a daily Cardinal, plus the necessary spares, basically account for the remainder. No, there is no actual confirmation that diners will return to those trains. But while the service model might well differ from a traditional dining car experience (not necessarily always a bad thing), it is a bit hard to envision Amtrak opting to retain high mileage, thirty-five year old Amfleet II lounge cars while brand-new Viewliner diners sit unneeded.

Though I don't really agree with the decision, I think the Cardinal will get a diner(-ish) before the Star does. I actually think you might be more likely to see something like the Pennsylvanian and Palmetto getting the diners (albeit with a somewhat modified passenger experience) first, since the Palmetto is an Amtrak train while the Pennsylvanian occupies a sort of hybrid space (it is nominally a state-supported train but Amtrak has conceded that it produces enough feeder traffic to the Cap that they'd have a real problem dumping it).

Personally, I'd actually like to see Amtrak seriously consider some sort of swap, adding a batch of diners that would operate more or less as cafes and then converting a bunch of Amcafes back to coaches. I'm not sure how much those conversions would cost, but adding an extra set or two worth of coaches would likely help Amtrak's bottom line...and of course, now I'm trying to figure out how much that would be worth as "surge capacity"

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Last Diner named after Vermont capital has nameplate mis-spelled , ohh boy

 

[A Voice]

Last Diner named after Vermont capital has nameplate mis-spelled , ohh boy

Huh? Montpelier has yet to be delivered.

 

[keelhauled]

Last Diner named after Vermont capital has nameplate mis-spelled , ohh boy

Huh? Montpelier has yet to be delivered.

Nameplate has probably been made though.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Amtrak reportedly picked up two cars on Dec 11/12 and a picture of name plate is floating around (with two LL's )

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/640996/#remarks

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Amtrak reportedly picked up two cars on Dec 11/12 and a picture of name plate is floating around (with two LL's )

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/640996/#remarks

What do those have to do with Vermont? Lansing (MI) and Jackson (MS) were delivered.

 

[jis]

Frankly, a misspelled nameplate is the least of the problems in the broader scheme of things. it should take a day or two to make another nameplate or two with the right spelling. Heck even Hialeah could pull that off I am sure.

talk about focusing on the less important while Rome burns.

Then again A. Philip Randolph had been running around with a misspelled name for many many years too

 

[me_little_me]

Frankly, a misspelled nameplate is the least of the problems in the broader scheme of things. it should take a day or two to make another nameplate or two with the right spelling. Heck even Hialeah could pull that off I am sure.

talk about focusing on the less important while Rome burns.

Agreed. More importantly, it is likely to never see the home state and the rest of the country probably can't spell Montpelier anyway.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Forget about the spelling, how many people in this country know the capital cities of any state but their own?

 

[Lonestar648]

How many people even know have the states in this country?

 

[Ryan]

How many people even know have the states in this country?

Huh?

 

[WoodyinNYC]

How many people even know have the states in this country?

Huh?

Half the states

 

[Palmetto]

Forget about the spelling, how many people in this country know the capital cities of any state but their own?

Fifth grade geography, back in the day. I'm up for a test.

 

[Acela150]

I think I was in 3rd grade when we had to memorize each and every state capital city. Which was one of the coolest things I did at that age.

 

[Steve4031]

I could get 45-50 if not 50 out of 50. By the fifth grade my train riding and constant studying of Amtrak's time table and map had taught me the geography of the USA.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Bob Dylan]

Ditto on the Elementary Geography!

Don't think it's a requirement anymore in most schools!!???

 

[Palmetto]

Ditto on the Elementary Geography!

Don't think it's a requirement anymore in most schools!!???

MEMORIZATION is not a requirement anymore in most schools. Too boring, you know?

 

[jis]

I think I was in 3rd grade when we had to memorize each and every state capital city. Which was one of the coolest things I did at that age.

While the US states and their capitals was not part of the curriculum in the elementary school in India, by third grade we were quite into the major countries of the world, their capitals and their flags. We were also upto speed on the states of India and their capitals. That was an interesting exercise since the states in India were being reorganized a bit even then as part of the rationalization from the princely fiefdoms of the indirectly under British rule parts of India, into post-independence states.

All that we learned about the US was that the kids wore clothing with big numbers on the back and strange names of people on them, and that they loved their flag, and hated the Russians.

 

[Ziv]

When I was in Nepal, every other kid would be pestering you for pens and/or asking what country and state or province you were from. As soon as you told them your home state or province, they would immediately, correctly, name the capital. Since they didn't have a lot of materials, their teachers emphasized memorizing geographical features and capitals.

 

[neroden]

Most people in the US don't even learn what countries there are in the world, let alone subnational units of other countries. In 1992 I was the only person in my school (including the teachers) who knew anything about Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, and Tajikistan.

I had to get out a globe and point to the countries on it. For my *history teachers*. (Central Asia actually plays a crucial role in all of European and Asian history, so I found this exceptionally pathetic.) Then I had to give them the ten-minute spiel about the steppe and oasis cultures. :sigh:

(Ever wondered why I have a healthy disrespect for credentials?)

 

[railiner]

Knowing state capitols has come in handy for me....like in playing team trivia on cruises....

.

I was addicted to map-reading at a young age...at one point, if you told me two Interstate or Federal highway numbers that intersected, I could tell you the city they did it in or near...(not any more)...

 

[StriderGDM]

Can someone please point me to a forum on railroading? I seem to have stumbled on a geography forum....