Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[jis]

Here we go again

People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Would you please explain to me why you think Amtrak is in a mad Escape From New York style dash to add back a full service dining car to the Lake Shore?

I mean, Im sure theyd like to get a return on their new dining car investment, but Im sure that when they announce a Diner back on to the Lake Shore, likely with great fan fare, they want to be sure that it wont get subbed out again a lot more than they want to change car types.

I mean, what you are implying is a bit silly: a quasi governmental organization rushing to do something without at least some kind of deadline? Thats patently absurd.

 

[A Voice]

Yeah. I more meant as a sort of theoretically-if-everything-goes-right kind of scenario.

In theory, the dining car could have been restored to the Lake Shore Limited or Silver Star for some time now; There remain a few Heritage cars technically still serviceable (think Thirdrail mentioned several just now falling off the active roster). Thirteen or Eighteen cars doesn't necessarily mean a thing.

But even if a full diner were quickly restored, how do you know the menu would be simultaneously expanded to something more than the Amfleet II ("diner lite") lounge can already handle?

Here we go again

People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it

So, it is confirmed that 3.14159 dining cars are required for a full (dessert) menu to return to the trains. Good to know.

 

[KnightRail]

Here we go again

People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it

There must be some amazing prize unbeknownst to some of us for guessing correctly. Seriously though, deployment happens when it happens. Enough of the magic numbers crystal ball hypothetical scenario guessing. Want to guess numbers and see if youre right?, play the lotto. At least that way you can loose money doing so.
Anyway, looks like the usual go-up-to-get Monday and bring-back Tuesday next week.

 

[cpotisch]

Here we go again

People looking for magic numbers and arguing about it

There must be some amazing prize unbeknownst to some of us for guessing correctly. Seriously though, deployment happens when it happens. Enough of the magic numbers crystal ball hypothetical scenario guessing. Want to guess numbers and see if youre right?, play the lotto. At least that way you can loose money doing so.
Anyway, looks like the usual go-up-to-get Monday and bring-back Tuesday next week.

Right now I'm just hoping to get a diner when I take the LSL next month. There's obviously no tangible benefit in getting the numbers and timeline right, and while deployment does happen when it happens, some people (like me) are curious about what to expect, and make guesses accordingly.

 

[jis]

With Amtrak, just like with your run of the mill airline, Que sera sera is the best approach.

 

[Trogdor]

The problem with trying to guess a "magic number" is the assumption that Amtrak actually has a magic number of their own.

Even if the diner was pulled due to lack of serviceable equipment a couple years ago (or however long ago it was), changing circumstances in the mean time may mean that sufficient equipment won't immediately result in the restoration fo dining car service.

Has there been a recent public statement from Amtrak indicating the dining cars are going to return?

Even hearing stuff from "friends who work at Amtrak" has limited credibility because decisions like these are often not made by a single person (even something as relatively simple as changing the Acela schedule on Saturday goes through a planning review, a financial review comparing revenue gain/loss to crew turn costs/savings and what have you), so even if someone "fairly high up" wants to do it, that's not guarantee enough that it will happen.

 

[jis]

Well, Anderson did make noises to that effect at the NARP Meeting in Chicago. But I am not sure that that is a public announcement necessarily.

 

[OBS]

The problem with trying to guess a "magic number" is the assumption that Amtrak actually has a magic number of their own.

Even if the diner was pulled due to lack of serviceable equipment a couple years ago (or however long ago it was), changing circumstances in the mean time may mean that sufficient equipment won't immediately result in the restoration fo dining car service.

Has there been a recent public statement from Amtrak indicating the dining cars are going to return?

Even hearing stuff from "friends who work at Amtrak" has limited credibility because decisions like these are often not made by a single person (even something as relatively simple as changing the Acela schedule on Saturday goes through a planning review, a financial review comparing revenue gain/loss to crew turn costs/savings and what have you), so even if someone "fairly high up" wants to do it, that's not guarantee enough that it will happen.

 

[west point]

Could it be that there is not personnel available to work more train routes yet ? Bidding rules might be complicated ?

 

[pennyk]

I highly doubt that. As for Jackson...........

Jackson is not on today's (1/10) train 98.

 

[Anderson]

My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

I highly doubt that. As for Jackson...........

Jackson is not on today's (1/10) train 98.

I think he said in the other VII thread that it’s hanging out in Miami till needed.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[cpotisch]

My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.

Even if they don't restore the full menu, there's quite a difference in ambience between the diner-lite and the V-II. One has curtains, silver trim, two rows of windows. The other is a tube with limited visibility, a trash can in plane sight, and a counter splitting the car.

 

[Anderson]

My guess is that the LSL's diner will get restored in line with the next bid rotation and/or menu change (since the latter probably involve approximate quantities). We're more-or-less to the point that a diner can be restored, in terms of car counts; the question now becomes the ability to do so in terms of staffing, etc. Also remember: Just because they swap in a dining car doesn't mean they'll be putting the menu back where it was just yet.

Even if they don't restore the full menu, there's quite a difference in ambience between the diner-lite and the V-II. One has curtains, silver trim, two rows of windows. The other is a tube with limited visibility, a trash can in plane sight, and a counter splitting the car.

Oh, I agree. Heck, I'd love to see a major order of VII diners put into service replacing cafes (and allowing those cafes to, in turn, be rolled into another dozen or two dozen cars to augment the Amfleet coach fleet) since at the cost of around two dozen non-rev seats in the cafe you'd get a full car of revenue seats in return.

One other thing to consider is that technically there may be some needed training on the new cars, which would also point to this playing out on a bid cycle.

 

[AmtrakLKL]

Jackson is on 98(11). Currently stuck in Miami due to a trespasser strike by Tri-Rail.

 

[cpotisch]

Jackson is on 98(11). Currently stuck in Miami due to a trespasser strike by Tri-Rail.

Yaaaaaaaaaayyyy!

 

[me_little_me]

Could it be that there is not personnel available to work more train routes yet ? Bidding rules might be complicated ?

Nope! Not enough executives to make a decision. Appropriations needed from congress to add sufficient management slots to decide what to do with all the diners.

 

[Thirdrail7]

Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?

 

[PerRock]

Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?

what do you expect the difference to be?

peter

 

[A Voice]

Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?

Done well, could be a winning plan.

Is it too late to make them cafeteria (not cafe) cars? How about a buffet car?

what do you expect the difference to be?

peter

Cafeteria = Piccadilly (server plates your selections as you move along serving line) and buffet = Golden Corral (you plate your own servings, such as from many salad bars), or similar, although I believe the terms are sometimes used interchangeably even in cases where they shouldn't be. Auto Train was once essentially a cafeteria setup, which seems more practical.

 

[Steve4031]

Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.

Back in 1987 the food was cafeteria style on a Sliver train and after you payed for your meals a Amtrak employee carry it to your table.

 

[A Voice]

Think inexperienced people carrying plates overloaded with food on a silver service train rolling down the NEC at 110 mph, and then hitting a interlocking where 3 tracks are reduced to 2 such as at gunpowder or havre de grace, and you will understand why buffet and cafeteria style would not work.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

So what's different now than when it worked previously?

 

[PVD]

Who said it worked well? Besides, that was before we entered the litigation universe.