Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[Thirdrail7]

Mady and Monty have left the building.

Nick

Fleet one! On the alert!

 

[VT Hokie]

In order to keep it out of the update thread, I wanted to ask in response to ThirdRail's comment there, what's happening to 8400?

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

Route maintenance was discussed a few pages back.

 

[KnightRail]

In order to keep it out of the update thread, I wanted to ask in response to ThirdRail's comment there, what's happening to 8400?

Still in the pitching rotation. Just arrived back in NY today after making a shortened Crescent round trip to Atlanta.

 

[cpotisch]

Why do they bother switching up the diners so often?

 

[jis]

Maybe they actually move entire consists or big chunks around from train to train to substitute bad ordered equipment in one so that it can be fixed and then put into a consist that departs later. I know this sort of thing happens at Sunnyside for example.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[LookingGlassTie]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread, but does Amtrak have any solid plans (or at least a desire) to order any Viewliner II coaches? If so, how would they be different from the Amfleets?

 

[Ryan]

No, they don’t.

 

[cpotisch]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread, but does Amtrak have any solid plans (or at least a desire) to order any Viewliner II coaches? If so, how would they be different from the Amfleets?

I can't imagine Amtrak ordering V-II coaches. CAF has finished producing the car bodies, so they would have to re-open that production line and design/build the new interiors. Plus, because the V-II order have been such an utter disaster for CAF, I suspect they would fight 'Trak tooth and nail. It would be cool to have the double row of windows in coach, but I can't imagine this coming to fruition.

 

[DCAKen]

It would be cool to have the double row of windows in coach, but I can't imagine this coming to fruition.

I can't imagine how you'd have a double row of windows in a coach and still have overhead luggage racks

 

[A Voice]

It would be cool to have the double row of windows in coach, but I can't imagine this coming to fruition.

I can't imagine how you'd have a double row of windows in a coach and still have overhead luggage racks

Not all Viewliners have a second row of windows (or even a single row...), nor is it a requirement. But just for the sake of argument, if passengers can ride next to that window in an upper berth, I'm not sure why my suitcase couldn't in a luggage rack.

Unless plans have changed, Amtrak does indeed intend to order replacement (Amfleet II) coaches and lounges. What form those might take (Viewliner or something else) and from what manufacturer (CAF, Siemens, Alstom, etc.) is little more than speculation at this point.

 

[tommylicious]

what's the whereabouts of the 2 most recently released VLIID's?

 

[A Voice]

what's the whereabouts of the 2 most recently released VLIID's?

Southbound on #97 today or tomorrow.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Not sure if it has been mentioned already in this thread, but does Amtrak have any solid plans (or at least a desire) to order any Viewliner II coaches? If so, how would they be different from the Amfleets?

Viewliners made sense for new diners and 25 more sleepers, and Amtrak was in hella hurry to get them, and new baggage cars, as the Heritage equipment was becoming unusable. And an order for batches of specialty cars was small enuff to fit into Amtrak's budget.

But Amtrak's next big order(s) will be big: replacing hundreds of aging coaches and lounges. For single-level equipment alone it will probably be over a Billion. Meanwhile Amtrak has been moving to standardize its equipment, locomotives and passengers cars, and major parts or sets of parts used in them. Now Amtrak doesn't want to order a batch of Viewliner coaches when it hopes to be getting 600 or 700 Next Generation coaches sometime in the 2020s.

Some of us spend a lot of our wishes wishing for one more batch of Viewliners. More sleepers for the current trains and maybe some more baggage cars, perhaps even a handful more diners. Then without more Viewliner equipment, it's hard to see adding even one or two new or revived trains to the national system. With another 20 Viewliner sleepers, five more diners, and five more baggage cars, you could equip a "Broadway Ltd." train East Coast to Chicago, using coaches from the huge Next Generation equipment order coming soon. Without more Viewliners, growing the Amtrak LD system just won't be possible for years to come.

 

[Ngotwalt]

I very much doubt anyone will stand a chance against Siemens for new single level cars. They have a production line up and running, with several hundred standing orders and options. No one else has that right now for single level intercity cars.

Nick

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why, precisely, does an order for any additional diners and/or sleepers have to be based on the Viewliner car body? The Siemens carbody is demonstrably capable of being adapted to both diner and sleeper configurations.

 

[SanDiegan]

How was the ride in Annapolis? Ambiance? Sound? Lighting? Was the food good?

The ride was quite nice; ambiance was very nice. Lighting was good and there are shades that can be lowered when the sun is too strong. Some people pulled shades this morning during breakfast.

I did not notice a difference in sound. The diner was not crowded during lunch or breakfast, but was full during dinner. Noise levels seemed quite acceptable. I had no problems hearing my tablemates. I am not sure if it had anything to do with the new diner, but there were no crying babies or screaming children, although there are plenty of children on the train because of the President's Day holiday in the north.

Yes, I thought the food was good each meal (however, I saw no difference between old diner food and new diner food).

President's day is only in "the north" ?

 

[A Voice]

Why, precisely, does an order for any additional diners and/or sleepers have to be based on the Viewliner car body? The Siemens carbody is demonstrably capable of being adapted to both diner and sleeper configurations.

It doesn't; The Viewliner is but one possibility. Still, it is just as valid to turn the question around, and ask why base additional cars (presumably including coaches) on a completely different platform when the rest of the train consists of Viewliners? There is something to be said for both standardization and aesthetics.

While Amtrak has yet to even issue a RFP for Amfleet replacements (nor is one likely imminent) some rail buffs practically already have the contract awarded to Siemens. For all any of us knows at this point, the contract will eventually go to CAF or Alstom or even Joe's Car Foundry & Bait Shop.

 

[PVD]

Anything new is likely to be a much more modern design than the VL. Even the next gen equipment committee standards for single level cars are likely to be updated before Amtrak gets new cars. Sourcing trucks is an issue that will have to be resolved. The greatest likelihood is roof mounted packaged units at each end. Lighting, wi-fi, communications, at seat power and charging, all will be new. So other than shell shape, very little will likely be present that makes a VL any more desirable than any other solutions. Matching car shapes in a consist is probably not considered important to anyone other than some of us. everyone seems to say "Siemens", but remember, companies may be very busy, and not chase after work if their lines are at max. Adding additional production either in a second shift or more space can make a big difference in pricing. If an RFP has targeted delivery dates, this can be a major factor. Can I produce an item at a certain price, yes, can I produce it at that price when you need or want it, that may be an entirely different story.

 

[Ngotwalt]

Im not awarding it to Siemens unilaterally, but commonality of spare parts, a running production line, two quality products out there already in Amtrak service. Oh by the way the Siemens cars are the same shape as Viewliners or close to it (not that it matters). I merely suggest Siemens has some major advantages over other manufacturers. Most of all, the cars are in service and Siemens has demonstrated they can deliver those cars on time an in budget. Who else can make that last claim? Certainly not CAF, could you imagine a 600 car coach order being delivered 2 cars per month or even six or eight (6.5 years at eight cars a month) I think all the SIIs made in two years. Im simply saying Siemens has a lot going for them. Finally a Viewliner coach would need engineering and design work. Viaggio USA coaches probably wont need any.

Nick

 

[PVD]

You are making a more tempered and reasonable statement than many others have. There are folks who think it is a slam dunk.

 

[jis]

Viaggio USA's will probably need some internal furnishing design work, specially for the Sleepers, if they come to pass. But I agree, the basic shell and trucks and HVAC appears to be pretty solid and reusable as is.

But then again remember, many here thought that the Velaro was a slam dunk for Acela II too. So one can never be sure for sure until the proverbial fat lady sings.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Why, precisely, does an order for any additional diners and/or sleepers have to be based on the Viewliner car body? The Siemens carbody is demonstrably capable of being adapted to both diner and sleeper configurations.

This is comforting to know, thanks. Of course, nothing is easy. adapting the Siemens single-levels for sleepers and diners could lead to delays. And if they do get ordered and arrive, then it will be mix-and-match sleepers in the yards, while Amtrak is craving interchangeability and standardization. Not least, the Big order to renew the fleet of coaches and lounges could tie up the production line for 6 or 7 years after it starts up, putting additional sleepers -- and new LD trains -- far down the road. But better this level of tangle than if the Siemens (or other new coach model) can't easily include sleepers at all.

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Im not awarding it to Siemens unilaterally, but commonality of spare parts, a running production line, two quality products out there already in Amtrak service. Oh by the way the Siemens cars are the same shape as Viewliners or close to it (not that it matters).

Most of all, the cars are in service and Siemens has demonstrated they can deliver those cars on time an in budget. Who else can make that last claim? Certainly not CAF. Could you imagine a 600 car coach order being delivered 2 cars per month or even six or eight (6.5 years at eight cars a month) ...

LOL. Without going to read it again, I'm just sure that the Fleet Plan indeed intends for the next Big order to be for 600 or more coaches at about 100 cars per year, or two per week, over about 6 or 7 years.

Anyway, I have the idea that the CAF facility is about the right size for batch orders (like 130 Viewliners), but for 100 coaches a year, Amtrak could want a bigger plant than Elmira. (Just my hunch.)

I appreciate that the Siemens coaches (and probably almost all the other builders' versions) are close to the same size and shape. They don't have to look like North Korean soldiers marching in parade trying to look as identical as robots. I'll be happy when the fake fuselage look is out of here.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Why, precisely, does an order for any additional diners and/or sleepers have to be based on the Viewliner car body? The Siemens carbody is demonstrably capable of being adapted to both diner and sleeper configurations.

This is comforting to know, thanks. Of course, nothing is easy. adapting the Siemens single-levels for sleepers and diners could lead to delays. And if they do get ordered and arrive, then it will be mix-and-match sleepers in the yards, while Amtrak is craving interchangeability and standardization. Not least, the Big order to renew the fleet of coaches and lounges could tie up the production line for 6 or 7 years after it starts up, putting additional sleepers -- and new LD trains -- far down the road. But better this level of tangle than if the Siemens (or other new coach model) can't easily include sleepers at all.

While some design work would probably be required to re-orient the car for American style sleeping compartments (as opposed to Euro-style), Diners similar to those used in the US have already been built on this design for Russian Railways.