Viewliner II Part 2: Dining Car Production, Delivery, Speculation

[tommylicious]

Lemme guess...just keep piling the VL Diners on the Silver Service? Anything heading to the LSL??

 

[cpotisch]

Lemme guess...just keep piling the VL Diners on the Silver Service? Anything heading to the LSL??

24 days until I ride #48. I've been praying non-stop.

 

[Steve4031]

Lemme guess...just keep piling the VL Diners on the Silver Service? Anything heading to the LSL??

They send them to Miami first so that Hialeah shops can prepare them to enter service. I'm watching lsl you and hoping to see them on there too.

Sent from my iPhone using Amtrak Forum

 

[neroden]

Madison and Montgomery should really provide them with enough cars to equip the LSL, though I suppose they might wait until they have two more. If they don't have it equipped by mid-March, it'll be time to complain.

 

[Green Maned Lion]

Oh, Ive never seen you complain, Nate.

 

[user 14106]

Other than reinstating the diner on the Lake Shore Limited, is there a consensus on whats going to be done with the remaining Diners? Still 7 left to be delivered.

 

[Ziv]

Maybe since Amtrak boasts about how modular the new Viewliner design is, they can change the layout a bit, remove the kitchen and insert lounge/sight-seer seating and use them to replace the retiring.Pacific Parlour Cars?

;-)

Other than reinstating the diner on the Lake Shore Limited, is there a consensus on whats going to be done with the remaining Diners? Still 7 left to be delivered.

 

[Blackwolf]

Maybe since Amtrak boasts about how modular the new Viewliner design is, they can change the layout a bit, remove the kitchen and insert lounge/sight-seer seating and use them to replace the retiring.Pacific Parlour Cars?

;-)

Other than reinstating the diner on the Lake Shore Limited, is there a consensus on whats going to be done with the remaining Diners? Still 7 left to be delivered.

 

[Acela150]

Oh, Ive never seen you complain, Nate.

LOL!!!

I swear everyone is "OMG When is the LSL getting a diner again?" How about we deliver the rest of the diners first?

 

[StriderGDM]

Maybe since Amtrak boasts about how modular the new Viewliner design is, they can change the layout a bit, remove the kitchen and insert lounge/sight-seer seating and use them to replace the retiring.Pacific Parlour Cars?

;-)

Other than reinstating the diner on the Lake Shore Limited, is there a consensus on whats going to be done with the remaining Diners? Still 7 left to be delivered.

They are modular, but I don't think any of the modules include staircases.

 

[Ziv]

Strider, I am sure they can do something! Just pop a new module in and, SHAZAM! You have a new PPC!

Finding space for the theater might be a bit difficult, but these cars are MODULAR!

;-)

On a more serious note, are we actually getting close to getting new VLII sleepers? Like early next year, maybe? I believe that there are 7 diners left to be delivered, and 2 diners have been delivered but aren't in service yet. And we have been seeing 2 cars delivered nearly every month for a little while. I am trying to remember the order, was it baggage, then diners, then bag/dorms, then, eventually, regular sleepers? And the bag/dorm order got cut to just 10 at some point if I remember correctly. So 3 or 4 months of diners, 5 months of bag/dorms, and in around 10 or 11 months, is it possible that we might see a sleeping car? Or will the change to bag/dorms take a large hit on the delivery schedule? Ok, the last one is impossible to predict with any accuracy. But it almost seems like the answer to "Are we there yet?!" could change within a year.

 

[StriderGDM]

Correct, bag/dorms are next. That said, I suspect they'll be a few month delay switching things over.

But once the first bag/dorms come on line, that'll be the first revenue expansion of the Viewliner fleet (since they can start to free up the sleeping space in sleepers that the crew is currently using.)

 

[Anthony V]

Has Albany been delivered yet? I read that there were problems with that diner several months ago, but I haven't heard anything since. Anyone know what the status of Albany is?

 

[StriderGDM]

My completely unofficial understanding is that Albany will be among the last to be delivered. The problems found were deep enough it was considered easier to fix them in the ones that weren't fully assembled and then go back and do major rework on Albany.

In either case, there's no huge rush. In a month or two, Amtrak will have more diners than it currently has routes to use them on.

 

[user 1215]

Why are they bothering with Bag/Dorms? What are the longest VL routes? All are only one night - right? On the other hand, if the baggage cars are so under utilized, why not ONLY bag/dorms?

 

[Blackwolf]

Why are they bothering with Bag/Dorms? What are the longest VL routes? All are only one night - right? On the other hand, if the baggage cars are so under utilized, why not ONLY bag/dorms?

The logical answer is cost.

Bag-only cars are probably at least 1/3rd cheaper per car than a bag-dorm.

 

[tricia]

Why are they bothering with Bag/Dorms? What are the longest VL routes? All are only one night - right? On the other hand, if the baggage cars are so under utilized, why not ONLY bag/dorms?

The logical answer is cost.

Bag-only cars are probably at least 1/3rd cheaper per car than a bag-dorm.

However "cheap" they are, if they're not being used very much, are they really cost-effective?

 

[StriderGDM]

There are apparently some routes where a baggage car is overkill, such as LSL where you probably don't need TWO full baggage cars. So having a baggage/dorm gets you a baggage car for the NYP-ALB leg and frees up sleeper space.

One real advantage of a baggage/dorm is the crew can be fully isolated from the riff-raff, err customers. (jokes aside, privacy is nice for this).

So if you have a route that doesn't need a full baggage car, swap out the baggage car for a baggage/dorm and you're all set.

And most likely this means the possibility of adding baggage to other trains in the future.

 

[Anthony V]

My completely unofficial understanding is that Albany will be among the last to be delivered. The problems found were deep enough it was considered easier to fix them in the ones that weren't fully assembled and then go back and do major rework on Albany.

In either case, there's no huge rush. In a month or two, Amtrak will have more diners than it currently has routes to use them on.

Will Albany's late delivery affect the future delivery schedule of the bag-dorms and sleepers?

 

[west point]

It may be that bag dorms can operate on some winter routes freeing up sleepers then for additional maintenance.

 

[Just-Thinking-51]

It may be that bag dorms can operate on some winter routes freeing up sleepers then for additional maintenance.

Only on forums like this do you ever hear fare paying passengers riding in the Bag Dorms. Never from Amtrak. Still waiting to hear the assignment for these cars. Ten is a intriguing number.

 

[A Voice]

There are apparently some routes where a baggage car is overkill, such as LSL where you probably don't need TWO full baggage cars. So having a baggage/dorm gets you a baggage car for the NYP-ALB leg and frees up sleeper space.

The number of full baggage cars was increased due to the fact that while underutilized most of the time, on certain routes (Florida) during busy periods a baggage-dormitory would be insufficient.

It may be that bag dorms can operate on some winter routes freeing up sleepers then for additional maintenance.

Only on forums like this do you ever hear fare paying passengers riding in the Bag Dorms. Never from Amtrak. Still waiting to hear the assignment for these cars. Ten is a intriguing number.

Lake Shore Limited and Cardinal will be the assignments for the baggage-dorms, so far as I know.

 

[west point]

The point was bag dorms on some low travel times routes could handle the baggage requirements. Crew would still use it. That might mean one less sleeper normally needed for crew for that train thus freeing up sleeper for more PM.

A wild idea. If the Atlanta station mess can be resolved to allow cut off cars. Run the Crescent this way. Locos, bag dorm, sleeper, lounge, diner, coaches, sleepers, regular baggage car. Cut off number of coaches not needed, rear sleepers, & regular baggage at Atlanta. Only one sleeper ever needed south of ATL. Then add cars on train 20 that night. Bag dorm ATL <> NOL should be all of the needed baggage space. This has the added advantage of only loading 19's bag dorm at a ATL and unloading rear regular baggage. Bag dorm could be added at WASH along with the locos for only baggage south of ATL with any NYPS - WASH baggage transferred to bag dorm at WASH. Would then only require 3 bag dorms for rotation. Probably will not happen.

 

[neroden]

If the Atlanta station mess is ever resolved, we'll know that hell has frozen over. Or, to be more specific, we'll be in a new golden age of American passenger rail, with high-speed rail routes being built simultaneously all over the country, like in China.

Sorry to get political, but this is my analysis:

Currently, the Georgia state government is essentially hostile to providing any money to solve any passenger rail problems, and this is an *ideological* view which isn't going to change as long as the Republicans are in power in Georgia and the Republican party remains the coalition which it currently is. The city and county governments in Atlanta, although Democratic aren't even interested in supporting intercity passenger rail. Having the city attitude shift enough to fund it would be a massive demographic shift in itself, one equivalent to the shift which has happened in the three major North Carolina metro areas over the past 40 years (which caused those cities, and eventually the state to start supporting intercity passenger rail.)

That demographic shift in North Carolina also turned NC from a "red state" into a state which consistently votes for Democrats, and where Republicans have kept power primarily by gerrymandering, voter suppression, and changing the rules repeatedly (the shenanigans they've gone to in NC specifically are well-documented and can be googled, I won't go into them here). If this same demographic shift happens in Georgia, it will imply that the same sort of shift is even further along in North Carolina (making it "solidly blue"), and that a similar shift has happened in Florida, Kentucky, Tennessee, etc. (all of which are less hostile to passenger rail to start with), and so on.

Resolving the Atlanta station mess requires an enormous shift in the political alignments in this country. A shift so large, that by the time it has happened, support for passenger rail in the states which currently support it will be at massively high levels, and there will be enough support to have a large national expansion program.

Who knows -- maybe this is on the verge of happening. What with the mayor of Nashville proposing an excellent citywide light rail system, maybe this massive shift is on the verge of happening.

But anyway, before the Atlanta station mess is fixed, we're going to see a *lot* of progress made on rail in a *lot* of places which are more positive towards rail to start with. Because for the politics to move to fix the Atlanta situation, it will first have to move enough to get more rail in a lot of other places (the Gulf Coast, Nashville, etc.)

 

[west point]

Neroden: Good analysis. However there may be some movement in the Ga legislature now in session. Have to wait 3 or 4 weeks to know for sure. Your analysis still avoids the additional equipment needed which is a frustration to all of us !