Viewliner II Part 4: Sleeping Car production, delivery, deployment

[jis]

Viewliner II Sleepers finally in commercial use on Silvers

https://railpassengers.org/happening-now/news/blog/viewliner-sleepers-debut-on-silvers/

 

[Steve4031]

How many of these cars have been delivered? It will be nice if they put one on the Cardinal and some of the LSL.

 

[jis]

How many of these cars have been delivered? It will be nice if they put one on the Cardinal and some of the LSL.

If the November 1 update from Amtrak by Numbers on OTOL is used as reference then 10 had been accepted by then and two more were expected to be accepted by Amtrak on Nov 20, making a total of 12.

This would just be adequate for one train requiring 4 consists with 2 cars each plus a few in reserve, and not quite enough yet for doing another train. Due to difference in the number of saleable accommodation between the Is and IIs, I suspect they will change an entire train over to using IIs and not mix Is and IIs in the same train, at least initially.

 

[Steve4031]

Thank you Jishnu. You consistently provide, clear, concise answers based on operational conditions that I forget about sometimes. I knew they had more than just a few cars, but had forgotten about the number of consists required to operate both silver trains.

 

[jis]

Thank you Jishnu. You consistently provide, clear, concise answers based on operational conditions that I forget about sometimes. I knew they had more than just a few cars, but had forgotten about the number of consists required to operate both silver trains.

Well at present, since in effect only one Silver train is running daily, only 4 consists are required, and typically they are running with 2 rather than 3 Sleepers, so that chalks up 8. If they were running with 3 we would not have enough VIIs with reserves.

In normal time the Meteor runs with 3, requiring a total of 12, and the start with 2 requiring a total of 8, so together they require 20 Sleepers. With the usual Amtrak contingency and out of service for maintenance allowances, the 25 car contingent would be just a bit more than what would be required by the Silver Service, so it is possible that when full service is restored, the VIIs will be dedicated to the Silver Service for the time being.

 

[Steve4031]

I like the cars. I saw pictures of them. Once this COVID thing is over I will be out east to ride them.

 

[Siegmund]

For the number of airline executives who have passed through Amtrak's ranks lately, it seems none of them care much about fleet utilization. 4 consists for a 27-hour trip is 54 hours on the road and 42 hours sitting idle in every cycle. And extras held back for protection on top of that.

It would require some careful choreography to manage 6 consists for the Star and Meteor together. But 7 for them, or 10 for Star, Meteor, and Crescent pooled, would be very doable - for a company that was interested in getting the most use out of its equipment that it could.

And to think that, once upon a time in a previous lifetime, Chicago to Miami was done with 3 consists. 30 hours on the road, 3 hours to turn in Miami, overnight for servicing in Chicago.

 

[Exvalley]

And to think that, once upon a time in a previous lifetime, Chicago to Miami was done with 3 consists.

You could have stopped with the highlighted part!

 

[me_little_me]

So, when will Amtrak have enough of the new bedding to roll out [pun intended]? Or are they waiting until they have enough spares in Beech Grove for those too?

 

[user 14106]

Amtrak’s most recent 5 year plan indicated the original plan to modify the VL1s to match the VL2s has been scrapped and instead the VL1s and Superliners will see an interior refresh a la the Amfleets with new cushions, carpeting and surface refresh and the VL1s and 2s will essentially just be assigned to seperate trains. With that in mind I wouldn’t be surprised to see the VL2s essentially go to the Silvers while the VL1s serve the rest

 

[jis]

For the number of airline executives who have passed through Amtrak's ranks lately, it seems none of them care much about fleet utilization. 4 consists for a 27-hour trip is 54 hours on the road and 42 hours sitting idle in every cycle. And extras held back for protection on top of that.

Just taggin an executive with Airline is not going to fix fundamental structural problems that are way beyond their controil. A lot of this has to do with unreliability of schedules. Many better utilization schemes in theory proved to be too unreliable in the face of schedule unreliability. If that can be improved then fleet utilization improvements can follow. And that as we know has been an ongoing political fisticuff for years.

The private railroads in their heyday managed better fleet utilization by having more reliable and faster schedules and oodles of service staff at the end points of the run who could service a trin within a few hours, Even Amtrak at one point managed the Star and Meteor with 7 consists, and could possibly pull it off with a schedule change for the Meteor, but the additional issue that PRR did not face in NYP back then was the commuter crush on the PRR side of Penn Station which carries way more commuter traffic today than it did in its heyday.

Today a three hour turn or even a six hour turn simply does not work for LD trains due to a combination of schedule unreliability and reduced servicing staff. If more than half the time a train arrives more than 2 hours late, and there is no night shift for servicing staff (e.g. at Sunnyside) then the rest pretty much follows. @Thridrail7 had at one point explained how things came to be the way they are. If interested one can probably find some of that discussion in the archives of this board.

Is this a desirable state of affairs? Of course not. But it is worth understanding what the root causes of the problems are, if we wish to come up practical achievable solutions.

 

[Bob Dylan]

Amtrak’s most recent 5 year plan indicated the original plan to modify the VL1s to match the VL2s has been scrapped and instead the VL1s and Superliners will see an interior refresh a la the Amfleets with new cushions, carpeting and surface refresh and the VL1s and 2s will essentially just be assigned to seperate trains. With that in mind I wouldn’t be surprised to see the VL2s essentially go to the Silvers while the VL1s serve the rest

I like this since I'm one of those who liked the Bathroom in the Roomettes.

And it would cause those who don't care for Shared Bathrooms to have to upgrade to the Expensive Bedrooms.( you there Penny???)

 

[user 14106]

Right now with 3x weekly you could conceivably send these everywhere but as soon as daily service comes back if the idea is to allow for more sleeper capacity during peak basically just dedicating these to the silvers isn’t a terrible idea. If when they bring back daily service they shift 97’s schedule to allow the meteor to go down to 3 consists then you could have 4 sleepers on the meteor, 3 on the Star, and you’d have 4 leftover for protects/spares. That would give you then a chance to perform the refresh on the Viewliner 1s and then deploy them to increase capacity on other trains and possibly even add them to 66/67 of they ever wanted to.

 

[pennyk]

I like this since I'm one of those who liked the Bathroom in the Roomettes.

And it would cause those who don't care for Shared Bathrooms to have to upgrade to the Expensive Bedrooms.( you there Penny???)

Yes, Jim, I likely will upgrade to the bedroom because I do not like sharing a restroom.

 

[RebelRider]

For those booking, it looks like the VL-IIs are being placed in the xx12 car position.

Two more sleepers, 62500 and 62507, are being delivered to HIA today on 97(09).

 

[Palmland]

Is there a diagram of the V-II sleepers? While I like the in room toilet if traveling solo, with my wife the rest room down the hall is fine. I would hope they would be at opposite ends of the hall to make it a shorter walk for late night visits.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Is there a diagram of the V-II sleepers? While I like the in room toilet if traveling solo, with my wife the rest room down the hall is fine. I would hope they would be at opposite ends of the hall to make it a shorter walk for late night visits.

They’re side-by-side next to the shower room, I think.

 

[Cho Cho Charlie]

I like this since I'm one of those who liked the Bathroom in the Roomettes.

Me too.

And even more so now with Covid-19. I would not want to share a toilet that could be coated in viruses.

 

[PVD]

One roomette module is replaced with a module containing 2 toilet rooms. They can be narrow because ADA accommodation is provided by the H room. Other that that, besides some of the features being modernized, the layout is basically the same

 

[tricia]

Me too.

And even more so now with Covid-19. I would not want to share a toilet that could be coated in viruses.

Carry a spray bottle of alcohol and spray every place you might touch as you enter. As you leave, wash your hands, and then use hand sanitizer when you return to your roomette. Not very difficult.

 

[IndyLions]

While I like the in room toilet if traveling solo, with my wife the rest room down the hall is fine...

The problem is there is no toilet “down the hall”. You have to walk thru the lounge, and then to the first coach to find a restroom.

Here’s a compromise for you. On the VLI’s, as part of the refresh - replace one of the roomette modules with a public restroom module. Now you have a choice – use the toilet in your room, or walk down the hall.

I know you lose a bedroom for revenue service that way, but the recent addition of the bag dorms on a lot of the same routes eliminated the need for the attendant room.

 

[ruck]

The problem is there is no toilet “down the hall”. You have to walk thru the lounge, and then to the first coach to find a restroom.

Here’s a compromise for you. On the VLI’s, as part of the refresh - replace one of the roomette modules with a public restroom module. Now you have a choice – use the toilet in your room, or walk down the hall.

I know you lose a bedroom for revenue service that way, but the recent addition of the bag dorms on a lot of the same routes eliminated the need for the attendant room.

Did something change? I was under the impression there were restrooms in the car (likely near the shower as @AmtrakBlue stated).

Random search turns up this:

https://www.trainsandtravel.com/2013/06/13/a-preview-look-at-amtraks-new-viewliner-sleeping-cars/
but that was eesh 7 years ago.

 

[AmtrakBlue]

Did something change? I was under the impression there were restrooms in the car (likely near the shower as @AmtrakBlue stated).

Random search turns up this:

https://www.trainsandtravel.com/2013/06/13/a-preview-look-at-amtraks-new-viewliner-sleeping-cars/
but that was eesh 7 years ago.

I think he's referring to the VLIs, not the VLIIs

 

[PVD]

I think you are right about that, the inference being that in the VL1 if you are sharing a room with someone where the in room toilet is an issue, you must leave the car to find one...not the case in the VL2

 

[railiner]

The Viewliner I’s, may have been the first long distance cars (except diner’s), to not have at least one ‘public’ restroom....I can’t recall any others...