What you're proposing is really a lot like the old dome cars, which had a lowered floor for lower-level stuff, and an upper-level area for lounging/viewing. Amtrak's 10031 is a lot like this. It is also taller than a Viewliner, and can't operate to/from NYP for that reason.
Viewliner order awarded to CAF USA
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I dunno, I think my model is a pretty good compromise. It's single level, uses a viewliner body and would be structurally sound because the windows don't wrap around, but would give you a very airy and open feel from the inside. I just finished the other side, plenty of room for the food service and a reasonable amount left for just lounging.
If Amtrak does do lounges in the next order, they would most-probably do it on the cheap. That's why my money is on a simple reconfiguration like the above.
Rob
If Amtrak does do lounges in the next order, they would most-probably do it on the cheap. That's why my money is on a simple reconfiguration like the above.
Rob
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NE933
Conductor
It's nice, but (and i hope you won't think i'm bashing your design or feel like i'm picking hairs} there are too many small, Amfleet I windows. In such a spacious area it would sort of look like many small holes. As i read the excellent engineering postings behind ours, i see why the dual level design would require a complete redesign, and the same goes for my idea of Superliner sightseer sized windows. Going purely by instinct and the way the angles look, there is a structural beam that runs in between the present Viewliners' top and bottom windows. A Superliner sized window looks great, but it would bisect the continuity of this horizontal beam and create an unacceptable compromise on the strength of the car should it roll over or hit something. So any window between the widest point in the mid section, and this beam, would have to fit in without breaking the line. Perhaps an Acela sized window can do it, as it's smaller than a Superliner sightseer yet bigger than Amfleet II sized bottom Viewliner windows. The next riddle stems from the upper Amfleet I sized windows and the roof of the car. If there is another horizontal beam in between the two, then the only thing that will work within present structure is another Amfleet II sized window.
Whatever perceptual benefit from putting Amfleet I windows on the roof i think wouldn't be worth it. I would try to see if engineering can do re-do, to move the possible roof beam, a few feet over to accomodate a 'wrap-style' window that is used in the roofs of the Superliner sightseers. In any event there is anecdotal stories that in the mid 80's, Amtrak had a "spectacular" design for a Viewliner lounge; i think it would be a good idea to get those blue prints out and dust them off to see what they came up with.
Green Maned Lion
Engineer
The Superliners were designed from day one to include wraparound windows in their roof. The Viewliners were not.
The Viewliners were designed under the ever pragmatic (although increasingly senile) W. Graham Claytor. They were designed to use as many standard Amfleet parts as possible to minimize parts costs- of course, when they were actually built a lot of that never carried over.
Structurally speaking, every single Amfleet I is the same. BC, cafe, coach, whatever. All the same. Same structure as the Metroliners, actually. Completely interchangeable. All cars of the Amfleet I fleet have cut outs in the structure for 18 windows. On the Cafe cars, 4 of them are covered over on the exterior shell. A few of them, you can actually see the cut outs.
Structurally speaking, the Bag-dorms, sleepers, as well as any lounges and coaches, would be the same for the Viewliner. They would just have different window cut outs. The Diner, I am not so sure. I don't know if it will have a vestibule.
I just wonder how things will turn out with a completely new supplier of Viewliners. The contract awarded to CAF was $90 million less than the bid by Alstom. It is interesting to note that that both Alstom and CAF are French Companies that are located in Hormell NY and Elmira Heights NY. respectively.
There is a guy on the Railroad.net forum that works for CAF and has been posting good info. The plant in Elmira Hts is almost 500,000 sq ft so its big enough to do the job but the 2 mile rail siding that led to the plant was abandoned by Norfork Southern in late 2009. There is a main line on the other side of the street from the CAF plant but its on a sharp curve so to ship the new Viewliners will mean refurbishing the siding, trucking the rail cars out or dollying them across the street to the mainline.
There is a guy on the Railroad.net forum that works for CAF and has been posting good info. The plant in Elmira Hts is almost 500,000 sq ft so its big enough to do the job but the 2 mile rail siding that led to the plant was abandoned by Norfork Southern in late 2009. There is a main line on the other side of the street from the CAF plant but its on a sharp curve so to ship the new Viewliners will mean refurbishing the siding, trucking the rail cars out or dollying them across the street to the mainline.
jis
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CAF stands for Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles. It is not a French company. It is a Spanish company.
The Alstom factory is in Hornell NY. Hormel is a food company known for the soups that it produces.
Unless the plans are changed, the diners will not have end vestibules. The plans did include two access doors, one on either side just where the kitchen ends and the LSA has their workstation, to allow for emergency egress.
printman2000
Engineer
And, I assume, for loading food and supplies.
Yup.
I stand corrected on both counts. So from French Viewliners we will now have Spanish Viewliners. I wish that we still had Pullman and Budd American made passenger cars but we were quick to put those companies out of business. At least they are made here and will create some American jobs. I predict that as soon as the new Viewliners are put into service Amtrak ridership will increase more than at the current levels. Everyone should appreciate riding/sleeping in a fresh new smooth riding train- at long last!!!.
NE933
Conductor
Is the buzz about 3 or 4 almost (open to interpretation) ready to go to Pueblo, Colorado testing center true?
When will we start to see some new diners and sleepers?
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As best I know, the first cars will be released for testing this summer. The first cars will enter revenue service sometime in 2014.
the_traveler
Engineer
I heard some cars may be in service by Thankgiving. But you know the Government, that could mean Thankgiving 2168!
That's not too bad, Thanksgiving 2168 will still beat CA HSR ^_^
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