What does a average room attendant make?

[user 1215]

Oooo - nice use of colors.

I imagine MOST employees get paid about the same (entertainers excepted). My Canadian friends have generally worked the same mundane jobs as thier counterparts from third world countries. Hmm.. many British and Australian third world employees, too.

Don't forget. OUR AMERICAN waiters and waitresses get like 2.30/hr plus TIPS (Cool! I can do it, too!). It's what they live on. Just like cruise ship workers.

Another solid reason why there aren't more Americans working on cruise ships is because the visas for Americans to work in foreign countries is much more difficult to acquire than other countries' citizens. For instance, I was born in Japan. Lived there 20 years. But as an American, it took sitting at a consulate in Houston AND my parent's status as full time employees in Japan to get the necessary paperwork to work PART TIME in Japan. Meanwhile it was nothing but a thing for Canadians and Australians to get work study visas to work full time in Japan.

 

[Ryan]

Your imagination isn't really representative of reality, it seems.

$1/day is a little closer to the reality of it, your Canadian friends notwithstanding.

You're also off the mark on visas as well. They're not applicable in this situation. Non-Americans need to have a US Seafarer's visa to meet/transit their ships in the US, that isn't an issue at most other ports of call.

 

[user 1215]

Your imagination isn't really representative of reality, it seems.

$1/day is a little closer to the reality of it, your Canadian friends notwithstanding.

You're also off the mark on visas as well. They're not applicable in this situation. Non-Americans need to have a US Seafarer's visa to meet/transit their ships in the US, that isn't an issue at most other ports of call.

OH, ok.

 

[Ryan]

I was referring to your $2.30+tips for US employees.

Facts may not matter for you, but they certainly do for me. The fact is, you can't take a single data point and say that they're representative of the entire industry. For the most part, they are as Mike described, and the folks are happy to have the jobs because they're immeasurably better than what they could get back home.

 

[neroden]

Tipping as a system is obscene, and generally results in a lot of tipped workers making less than minimum wage (which is illegal, but this isn't enforced), a few making a lot more, and an unpleasant and overly competitive (uncooperative) workplace culture.

They managed to get rid of tipping in Europe. We could here, but we haven't.

 

[William W.]

I'm OK with tipping, honestly. Unlike a lot of people these days, I really do tip based on service. If you're great, you get a great tip. If you suck, you get a bad tip.

I go off of a tiered system:

Bad service: 0-10%

Average service: 15-20%

Great service: 20%+

In terms of Amtrak, I usually do $10 per day. The exception to this was when I took the CL; my SCA was so bad that he got nadda.

In terms of tips+wage not equaling minimum wage, employers are required to make up the difference. It is an employee's right to demand that their employer do this. If the employer doesn't, they are breaking the law.

 

[FormerOBS]

A lot of this discussion is kind of irrelevant. The comment that provoked the reaction was that Amtrak should hire people who would be content to receive "less than minimum wage". Aside from the prima facie illegality of the suggestion, it is insulting and self-serving. The suggestion was that this would result in cheaper sleeping car rates. It means that the poster has so little respect for the workers that he/she is very happy to consign those workers to poverty in order to subsidize the poster's comfort and convenience. This is 2014, you know --- not 1859.

Tom

 

[Bob Dylan]

Good post Tom! That kind of thinking would be perfect if the poster proposing hiring sub minimum wage workers for Amtrak workers had run the Pullman Company for old George who was one of the meanest and cheapest Captains of Industry in a time when Robber Barons controlled the Economy of this Nation!

Let them eat cake indeed!

 

[sldispatcher]

To compare to our airline industry, the onboard service portion (aka flight attendants) are also paid only when the door is shut if I recall correctly. That also depends on contract to contract, I'm sure.

For me, I work 7 days on and then 14 days off. It is not in an industry that supplies tips for sure, but I'm well compensated for my time away from home. I'm not sure the same can be said for onboard service staff on Amtrak. However, if one were to extrapolate minimum wage in a restaurant setting to Amtrak dining car workers, then the Amtrak employee is getting an hourly premium well above the same minimum wage before they even get started.

The basic premise to the question has so much rooted in one's ideological beliefs that it is either paid too much or paid too little. As others have pointed out, the benefits would have to be weighed in as well. The value of those, because the employee never sees the real dollar cost, can really raise the bar on overall compensation. Even if you used a 20%- 25% standard for benefits, you now have employees making about $20/hour while actually at work, before tips.

I have no idea what the average person working Outback Steakhouse makes, but I bet the Amtrak employee tends to beat it. Likewise, what is the person working at Hampton Inn make? I'm not sure.

The big difference maker for me is time away from home. That certainly causes me angst. But based on what numbers have people put out here, I would say that the potential to make a combined pay and benefits package into the 80's or 90's with all of that time away from home would be considered generous in many parts of this country.

Not sure I even have a point other than to say that it is not an easy equation. There is value to any worker. The question is to what value we place on that person's job and ability to do that job?

My fallback is always to let the marketplace decide.

 

[EB_OBS]

Amtrak OBS make between 39K - 55K per year in gross wages.

This depends upon what craft as there are slight differences in pay, such as LSAs & Chefs make a little more than TAs & SAs.

It also depends upon time in craft. You start out at 75% of max and work your way up to 100% over 10 years.

 

[D.P. Roberts]

There's another aspect of the "offending" post that I have an issue with:

Why doesnt Amtrak employ cruise ship workers? Those workers aboard cruise ships will gladly put up with conditions far more demanding than Amtrak, yet get less than min. wage.

If Amtrak used them, better customer service, and lower sleeper fares for us. I have never seen a grumpy cruise ship worker on all the cruises I've taken, they are just glad they have a job in America.

I've been in customer service for most of my adult life, and I can guarantee you that just because someone isn't acting "grumpy" doesn't mean that they don't FEEL grumpy.

If cruise line employees appear less "grumpy" than Amtrak employees, it's only because they're trained that way (and they have supervisors/managers who monitor such behavior). Employees' visible attitudes say a lot more about their bosses than it does about their actual internal states.

It's human nature - we want to think that employees are serving us because they LIKE us, and not because they're being paid to do so. And we get mad when they won't pretend that they're having fun, and complain to their bosses about their "attitude". Even slave owners insisted that their slaves should whistle or sing while planting cotton.

 

[railiner]

$60K may be a bit of an exaggeration, but it would probably be possible if some extra trips are made. I know a few people who have spent nearly a month on the road without seeing their homes. I never volunteered for that many extra trips myself. But it has happened for some people when we had a lag between retirements/resignations, and new-hire classes..

Tom

I was curiuos about that.....If an OBS employee on a regular bid assignment, works an extra trip(s) between their regular assignment, are they paid time-and-a-half, or just straight time for that? Do OBS employees ever get 'time-and-a-half'?

I could see that some "overtime-hounds" (every job seems to have some of those), could conceivably earn six figures .......

 

[EB_OBS]

OBS gets paid OT on a monthly basis. Most LD trips are paid 60-70 hours and they work 2 or 3 of these per month. Depends upon how many days off there are in between trips. On the Empire Builder regulars work six days and have six days off.

If you're on the extra board you only have two days off guaranteed between assignments. However, once over 100 hours afer the 10th of the month you can be skipped in-line for employees with less hours.

OT is paid above 185 hours for the month at the usual rate of 1.5X.

Back in 2007 I knew of an OBS employee who made 90k working mostly as an SA and SCA. I've not heard of anyone even coming close to that since.

 

[FormerOBS]

Regular hourly rate is paid for all hours up to 180 hours in a calendar month. An OBS attendant might work 20 hours or more without relief at some point early in the month, and receive straight pay --- not time and 1/2. I know of situations where a person had need of extra money, so he volunteered to make several successive trips early in the month. By the middle of the month, he was close to 180 hours and was on the verge of breaking into overtime. Then he got sick, missed a lot of work, and ended up no better off than he would if he had never worked the extra trips. Remember, O.B.S. staff are not covered by the Federal Hours of Service Act because they do not have a role in operating the train. So it is legal to expect them to work much more than 12 hours continuously, and to get far less than 8 hours' rest between shifts.

It is a physically demanding job. Yesterday I had a pleasant conversation with a grocery store cashier. She wasn't complaining, but in conversation she mentioned that she was tired from being on her feet all day. On the train, your Attendant spends a lot of time on his feet, constantly working against the motion of the train. We used to joke that the passenger gets aboard the train, sits down, and rides to Florida; we WALK to Florida. The job is very demanding on a human body, and those long hours with short sleep don't help.

A long time ago, I left home on July 3 and arrived at our turnaround point on the 4th. After our layover, we returned to the train for an ontime departure. As we were boarding passengers, a mechanical problem was discovered, so someone from the Mechanical Dept. was called. The repair required quite a while, the Mechanics had to stay at work longer than planned, and the train left late after the repairs were made. I remember the griping from the Mechanics who were going to be late for their July 4 picnics. We had to listen to this griping, knowing that the Mechanics' contract was paying them extra for the WHOLE DAY, while we were getting straight time (early in the month). We were 900 miles from home on a holiday, and the Mechanic was going to a picnic with his family, even if he was a bit late. It's hard to avoid seeing the imbalance there.

Tom

 

[Bob Dylan]

I had a SCA named Linda on the SWC (her Regular Route) from KCY-LAX a couple of years ago who told me that she had worked this Route 15 days in a row to get " Christmas Money!"

She was an Outstanding SCA and told me when we reached LAX that she was "Tired and getting too old to do this anymore!" As Tom said, its a tough job that's not for everyone!

 

[WoodyinNYC]

Regular hourly rate is paid for all hours up to 180 hours in a calendar month. An OBS attendant might work 20 hours or more without relief at some point early in the month, and receive straight pay --- not time and 1/2. I know of situations where a person had need of extra money, so he volunteered to make several successive trips early in the month. By the middle of the month, he was close to 180 hours and was on the verge of breaking into overtime. Then he got sick, missed a lot of work, and ended up no better off than he would if he had never worked the extra trips. Remember, O.B.S. staff are not covered by the Federal Hours of Service Act because they do not have a role in operating the train. So it is legal to expect them to work much more than 12 hours continuously, and to get far less than 8 hours' rest between shifts.

It is a physically demanding job. Yesterday I had a pleasant conversation with a grocery store cashier. She wasn't complaining, but in conversation she mentioned that she was tired from being on her feet all day. On the train, your Attendant spends a lot of time on his feet, constantly working against the motion of the train. We used to joke that the passenger gets aboard the train, sits down, and rides to Florida; we WALK to Florida. The job is very demanding on a human body, and those long hours with short sleep don't help.

A long time ago, I left home on July 3 and arrived at our turnaround point on the 4th. After our layover, we returned to the train for an ontime departure. As we were boarding passengers, a mechanical problem was discovered, so someone from the Mechanical Dept. was called. The repair required quite a while, the Mechanics had to stay at work longer than planned, and the train left late after the repairs were made. I remember the griping from the Mechanics who were going to be late for their July 4 picnics. We had to listen to this griping, knowing that the Mechanics' contract was paying them extra for the WHOLE DAY, while we were getting straight time (early in the month). We were 900 miles from home on a holiday, and the Mechanic was going to a picnic with his family, even if he was a bit late. It's hard to avoid seeing the imbalance there.

Tom

Grocery store cashiers are forced to stand at their jobs

probably because they are women, the owners/bosses

are all men, and nobody gives a damn if the women are

aching. If the jobs were held by men mostly, things would

perhaps be different. Or perhaps they have to stand all

day simply as a punishment for the crime of being poor.

Meanwhile in Europe, at least in Switzerland where I last

visited, cashiers sit while ringing up the totals. Somehow

they get the job done while sitting.

This should be a feminist issue. But I guess those worrying

about how many females at the law firm will make Partner

don't have time to worry about the working poor who stand

all day at the checkout counter at Walmart, without any tips.

To get back on topic. I'd wondered if making some routes

faster -- the Vermonter, for example, schedule trimmed

by half an hour already, another 25 minutes off promised

by next year -- will this reduce Amtrak's cost of overtime?

If so, folks working the Wolverines and Lincoln service

could take a hit.

Reminds me that standard advice when figuring out

what you can afford, a car loan or mortgage or even

what tier of cable TV, you should NEVER include

your overtime with your base pay. Only the base

pay is promised, overtime can go away faster than

a Wall Street bank can go bust.

 

[railiner]

Regular hourly rate is paid for all hours up to 180 hours in a calendar month. An OBS attendant might work 20 hours or more without relief at some point early in the month, and receive straight pay --- not time and 1/2. I know of situations where a person had need of extra money, so he volunteered to make several successive trips early in the month. By the middle of the month, he was close to 180 hours and was on the verge of breaking into overtime. Then he got sick, missed a lot of work, and ended up no better off than he would if he had never worked the extra trips. Remember, O.B.S. staff are not covered by the Federal Hours of Service Act because they do not have a role in operating the train. So it is legal to expect them to work much more than 12 hours continuously, and to get far less than 8 hours' rest between shifts.

It is a physically demanding job. Yesterday I had a pleasant conversation with a grocery store cashier. She wasn't complaining, but in conversation she mentioned that she was tired from being on her feet all day. On the train, your Attendant spends a lot of time on his feet, constantly working against the motion of the train. We used to joke that the passenger gets aboard the train, sits down, and rides to Florida; we WALK to Florida. The job is very demanding on a human body, and those long hours with short sleep don't help.

A long time ago, I left home on July 3 and arrived at our turnaround point on the 4th. After our layover, we returned to the train for an ontime departure. As we were boarding passengers, a mechanical problem was discovered, so someone from the Mechanical Dept. was called. The repair required quite a while, the Mechanics had to stay at work longer than planned, and the train left late after the repairs were made. I remember the griping from the Mechanics who were going to be late for their July 4 picnics. We had to listen to this griping, knowing that the Mechanics' contract was paying them extra for the WHOLE DAY, while we were getting straight time (early in the month). We were 900 miles from home on a holiday, and the Mechanic was going to a picnic with his family, even if he was a bit late. It's hard to avoid seeing the imbalance there.

Tom

Very true. But.....would you have traded crafts with him? ........

 

[FormerOBS]

Traded with him? I never wanted to live in Florida & don't have the aptitude for that kind of work. Trading means he would be taking my onboard job, and I wouldn't have expected this particular guy to treat the passengers as they should be treated. Trading crafts with him wasn't in the equation.

I'd have gladly traded paychecks, though!

Tom

 

[seat38a]

Why doesnt Amtrak employ cruise ship workers? Those workers aboard cruise ships will gladly put up with conditions far more demanding than Amtrak, yet get less than min. wage.

If Amtrak used them, better customer service, and lower sleeper fares for us. I have never seen a grumpy cruise ship worker on all the cruises I've taken, they are just glad they have a job in America.

I understand the "flagging of the vessels" (usually Liberia or Panama) is why they can be paid less, but none the less, something to think about.

And I know this won't ever happen, but still, just sayin'

Why? Those employees on the cruise ship who tend your room, wait your table, etc. and don't complain are not USA citizens. NCL discovered that when they tried the NCL Hawaii experiment with three ships built exclusively for Hawaii inter island cruising. Without making a non-USA port of call, NCL was required to hire only USA citizens, and failed miserably. USA citizens don't want to work that type of job even on a cruise ship. After only one or two years, two of the Hawaii ships were retrofitted and now cruise in the Mediterranean Sea. Only one remains in Hawaii and now make a non-USA cruise stop on every trip so they can now hire non-USA citizens and also have a casino which was not allowed when they sailed exclusively in Hawaii state waters. I know because I cruised on one of those ship in Hawaii in April 2007 on one of the brand new ship which moved to the Mediterranean in 2008.

NCL's Pride of America does NOT make a stop in a foreign port. I was on that cruise. It sails from HNL and ends in HNL with stops at Maui, Hawaii, Kauai. So unless one of those islands became a separate independent republic, it still sails exclusively inside the state of Hawaii.

 

[neroden]

This should be a feminist issue

It is, but the priority feminist issues in that job class areA) outright hiring discrimination and wage discrimination (still rampant)

(B) sexual harrassment

© getting paid maternity/paternity leave

(D) getting reliable access to childcare...

...so, depressingly, things are bad enough for working mothers in service jobs that the ergonomics have fallen off the radar.

 

[railiner]

Why doesnt Amtrak employ cruise ship workers? Those workers aboard cruise ships will gladly put up with conditions far more demanding than Amtrak, yet get less than min. wage.

If Amtrak used them, better customer service, and lower sleeper fares for us. I have never seen a grumpy cruise ship worker on all the cruises I've taken, they are just glad they have a job in America.

I understand the "flagging of the vessels" (usually Liberia or Panama) is why they can be paid less, but none the less, something to think about.

And I know this won't ever happen, but still, just sayin'

Why? Those employees on the cruise ship who tend your room, wait your table, etc. and don't complain are not USA citizens. NCL discovered that when they tried the NCL Hawaii experiment with three ships built exclusively for Hawaii inter island cruising. Without making a non-USA port of call, NCL was required to hire only USA citizens, and failed miserably. USA citizens don't want to work that type of job even on a cruise ship. After only one or two years, two of the Hawaii ships were retrofitted and now cruise in the Mediterranean Sea. Only one remains in Hawaii and now make a non-USA cruise stop on every trip so they can now hire non-USA citizens and also have a casino which was not allowed when they sailed exclusively in Hawaii state waters. I know because I cruised on one of those ship in Hawaii in April 2007 on one of the brand new ship which moved to the Mediterranean in 2008.

NCL's Pride of America does NOT make a stop in a foreign port. I was on that cruise. It sails from HNL and ends in HNL with stops at Maui, Hawaii, Kauai. So unless one of those islands became a separate independent republic, it still sails exclusively inside the state of Hawaii.

Agreed! The NCL Pride of America is the only full-sized US Registered cruise ship in service. It's hull was built in Pascagoula, Ms. by Litton - Ingalls shipbuilding. (It was then towed to Lloyd-Werft in Bremerhaven, Germany to be completed and fitted out.). Here's a link to the Wiki arcticle on it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_of_America

 

[NW cannonball]

I'm never going to ride a cruise ship - for various reasons - expected boredom is one reason.

Not wanting third-world dollar-an-hour wonderful people kissing my butt is another reason.

Because I totally don't mind paying dollar-an-hour to third-world people -- but i'd rather pay on their home turf.

Norovirus on a floating hotel is, for me, a zero win, time-wasting, totally losing way to be.

Worse bugs visiting India -- worth my time.

Cruise ship. not worth a minute.

 

[seat38a]

I'm never going to ride a cruise ship - for various reasons - expected boredom is one reason.

Not wanting third-world dollar-an-hour wonderful people kissing my butt is another reason.

Because I totally don't mind paying dollar-an-hour to third-world people -- but i'd rather pay on their home turf.

Norovirus on a floating hotel is, for me, a zero win, time-wasting, totally losing way to be.

Worse bugs visiting India -- worth my time.

Cruise ship. not worth a minute.

Go on NCL Pride of America. They charge first world rates with first world crew who will NOT kiss your ass but give you an attitude for the 4X the price of the foreign flagged ships.

 

[NW cannonball]

Exactly.

Many reasons not to throw money away on a "cruise".

I'd rather spend a week in Minot, or a week in Tokyo in a 3-tatami shared toilet place. Not a cruise ship.

Personal preference,, not putting anyone down.

 

[lstone19]

To compare to our airline industry, the onboard service portion (aka flight attendants) are also paid only when the door is shut if I recall correctly. That also depends on contract to contract, I'm sure.

Only somewhat true. The typical pilot or flight attendant contract pays them the greatest of five different ways to calculate their pay - four based on schedule and one based on actual. The four based on schedule are flight hours, duty hours, time away from home, and a minimum per duty period. For instance, two duty hours might pay the same as one flight hour so if a trip is built so that flight hours are less than half the duty hours, then they paid based on duty hours.

The actual is only flight hours and applies only if the actual flight hours (including taxi time - flight hours for this are gate departure to gate arrival) exceed the amount the trip was to pay based on schedule. More often than not, scheduled pay exceeds actual so actual doesn't matter.