What should Amtrak change?

[zephyr17]

OK, so no Superliner maintenance facilities South of DC.

Wrong, Sanford, FL. When the Sunset ran through to Orlando, they backed the consist up to Sanford for servicing.

 

[Bob Dylan]

It would be a 2-night train, so they'd need 6 trainsets. I don't know whether there are enough extra Viewliners to equip it.

Traveling between FL & CHI is not that bad when the Meteor is running, as it's a fairly safe same-day connection both ways. When they're running just the Star, there's no westbound connection and a tight eastbound one.

There's Viewliners gathering Mildew in the Florida Yards!

 

[jis]

There's Viewliners gathering Mildew in the Florida Yards!

The Viewliners and Amfleet IIs needed to equip six additional train sets simply do not exist. Nor do Superliners to equip three more trainsets after the existing trains are fully equipped to pre-2019 levels. At present the idea of extending the Cap to Florida is pretty much DOA on account of unavailability of rolling stock to equip such a venture.

 

[west point]

The Viewliners needed to equip six additional train sets simply do not exist. Nor do Superliners to equip three more trainsets after the existing trains are fully equipped to pre-2019 levels. At present the idea of extending the Cap to Florida is pretty much DOA on account of unavailability of rolling stock to equip such a venture.

That is a fact that seems to elude many of our posters.

 

[Laurajeantx]

1. Get the Meteor up and running. The Star takes too long with its western dips for those headed all the way north or south; 2. Staff retraining and emphasis on courteous customer service. Some have it down and others do not. Maybe incentivize this with bonusing on compliment cards; 3. Traditional dining for sleeper passengers. The rooms are quite expensive. Make it more worthwhile with the dining experience so many of us loved, but is currently gone on the Northeast trains.

Many of us love a train trip, hearing the haunting whistles and gate crossings late at night, rocking to sleep with the clickety clack of the rails and motion of the train. Love us back, Amtrak.

 

[MccfamschoolMom]

It would be a 2-night train, so they'd need 6 trainsets. I don't know whether there are enough extra Viewliners to equip it.

Traveling between FL & CHI is not that bad when the Meteor is running, as it's a fairly safe same-day connection both ways. When they're running just the Star, there's no westbound connection and a tight eastbound one.

I once tried looking up just how I would travel from Chicago to Charleston, SC to visit my sister. I think a connection or 2 with regional trains was involved, although that may have been partly because I was originally thinking of it as a "circle trip": CONO to New Orleans, then the Crescent, (then the regional train connection to whichever Silver Service train it was), then a Silver Service train to DC, then either the Cardinal or the Capitol Limited from DC back to Chicago.

 

[zephyr17]

Love us back, Amtrak.

As a long distance passenger, current management would really prefer you just go away.

 

[Rasputin]

My experiences on the coast starlight earlier this month were very nice. “first class” is a bit subjective but I’d call it first class.

No question in my mind that many of the western trains can be first class operations for sleeping car passengers. The Coast Starlight certainly was when the Pacific Parlour Car was in operation and it probably still is without it. The western trains have good meals and good equipment such as the Sightseer Lounge Cars. Of course if your room is abruptly canceled, that is not first class treatment.

My children who have stayed in hostels in Europe and in Central America tell me that hostels do not serve food. For the eastern long distance trains and for the Texas Eagle, some would say that Amtrak does not serve food or not adequate or decent food.

They also tell me that in a hostel you often bring your own bedding or sleeping bag and the bed is not made up for you by the hostel staff. On an Amtrak sleeper, you often get your blanket wrapped in plastic and you make your own bed but at least you don't have to bring your own bedding. Sometimes the attendant will make your bed. Sometimes not. I don't know if this can be called first class.

They also tell me that the hostel staff usually consists of young people who are friendly and helpful and they are probably not paid much. On Amtrak, the staff is paid quite well and they have job protection. Some are friendly and helpful. Some are not. Because of this inconsistency, I don't think it is first class.

Of course on Amtrak you do get a private room if you are in a sleeper unless your sleeper reservation is canceled in which case you get a larger room with many other people in it and no bed.

 

[TheCrescent]

Another way to look at it is:

Would a typical person who pays to fly first class also pay to take “first class” on Amtrak? And could you suggest to such a person that s/he take Amtrak “first class” and not have your reputation damaged?

On an Acela, yes.

On the Coast Starlight, yes.

Otherwise, not really.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

When was the last time someone stayed at a hostel, campground, or Motel 6 for $500+ per night? Regardless of the chosen description the value proposition is poor on the Eastern trains and comes with an unacceptable risk of sudden downgrades on the Western trains. In my view at this moment only the Coast Starlight seems to have a reasonable combination of service and availability.

 

[user 14106]

Another way to look at it is:

Would a typical person who pays to fly first class also pay to take “first class” on Amtrak? And could you suggest to such a person that s/he take Amtrak “first class” and not have your reputation damaged?

On an Acela, yes.

On the Coast Starlight, yes.

Otherwise, not really.

Not everyone who would take first class on an airline would even want to spend overnight on a train regardless of the food or whatever - no matter what. And first class on airlines varies in quality.

I thought the subject here was food not every single issue going on with Amtrak. By the way in case you haven't paid attention to the news airlines have had cancellations as well.

 

[MARC Rider]

I think that's a massive generalization - not everyone who would take first class on an airline would even want to spend overnight on a train regardless of the food or whatever - no matter what. You're comparing apples to oranges. The comparison to flying is irrelevant. And first class on airlines varies in quality.

I thought the subject here was food not every single issue going on with Amtrak. By the way in case you haven't paid attention to the news airlines have had cancellations as well.

That's the whole point. Amtrak happens to have a monopoly on long-distance train travel in this country, mainly because no one else is interested in providing it. The closest thing to it are various private car excursions, and while the experience may be better than Amtrak, the prices are much higher. That's assuming you can find an excursion that fits your schedule. Amtrak trains are supposed to run mostly daily and on a schedule, and the fact that they're having trouble doing this is far more disconcerting than the quality of the food.

I did a recent price comparisons for those wishing the long distance train experience on the North American continent. An Amtrak ride in a roomette from New York to Los Angeles in the middle of November priced out at $1,375, with a ~$260 fare for a companion. That's the direct route using the Laske Shore Limited and the Southwest Chief.

A ride on the Candian from Toronto to Vancouver in the middle of November was priced at about $2,200 in a discounted cabin for 1.

That's about it.

The only other thing I could find was a one-night, 2 day ride on the Rocky Mountaineer from Denver to Moab. It was $2600 per person, and included 2 breakfasts and a lunch, served at your seat, plus lodging, but not dinner in Glenwood Springs. If you want to use the lounge car, there's an extra charge.

So maybe riding an Amtrak train in sleepers isn't such a bad deal, despite the fact that the food service on some of the trains needs to be improved.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

In my view at this moment only the Coast Starlight seems to have a reasonable combination of service and availability.

My coast starlight reservation was cancelled within 24 hours. The agent rebooked me on the next available train and upgraded me to a bedroom no charge. For me… that worked ok. If I was on a schedule I would have had to find an alternate form of transportation on my own.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

So maybe riding an Amtrak train in sleepers isn't such a bad deal, despite the fact that the food service on some of the trains needs to be improved.

It’s still a good deal / value on the western trains. The eastern trains are a bit of a mess but could still be considered an ok value especially if you get assigned to a new viewliner car.

 

[TheCrescent]

I think that's a massive generalization - not everyone who would take first class on an airline would even want to spend overnight on a train regardless of the food or whatever - no matter what. You're comparing apples to oranges. The comparison to flying is irrelevant. And first class on airlines varies in quality.

I thought the subject here was food not every single issue going on with Amtrak. By the way in case you haven't paid attention to the news airlines have had cancellations as well.

I fly every week and have had numerous flight cancellations, involuntary re-routes, etc.

Most any American who pays to fly first class would take an overnight train in Europe without hesitation so saying that people who fly wouldn’t take a train is not the case.

My point is that there is a large, growing and potentially very profitable market for paid first-class travel. Airlines have seized on it and have significantly increased the range and quality of premium-class offerings, and revenues from them are outsized.

Amtrak could be doing the same, but it’s not, and that’s keeping Amtrak in a financial black hole. If Amtrak had enough premium class business on its trains to make them profitable (or at least lose less money), then there would be more and better trains for all travelers.

 

[user 14106]

I fly every week and have had numerous flight cancellations, involuntary re-routes, etc.

Most any American who pays to fly first class would take an overnight train in Europe without hesitation so saying that people who fly wouldn’t take a train is not the case.

My point is that there is a large, growing and potentially very profitable market for paid first-class travel. Airlines have seized on it and have significantly increased the range and quality of premium-class offerings, and revenues from them are outsized.

Amtrak could be doing the same, but it’s not, and that’s keeping Amtrak in a financial black hole. If Amtrak had enough premium class business on its trains to make them profitable (or at least lose less money), then there would be more and better trains for all travelers.

Without going too far off topic - most of the problems on Amtrak are related to staffing. Unlike the airlines there isn't as many flights with long distance Amtrak and capacity to fall back to - if your sleeper gets dropped you're toast. Better days are likely coming - but it's going to take some time.

 

[Devil's Advocate]

The comparison to flying is irrelevant.

I find it interesting that members who are so accepting and deferential toward Amtrak staff have no problem telling other customers what they should expect and how it should be judged.

And first class on airlines varies in quality.

In my experience FC varies less between US airlines than Sleeper Class varies from one crew to the next.

By the way in case you haven't paid attention to the news airlines have had cancellations as well.

This is true but I still made it to my destination within a few hours of the intended time whereas I live along an Amtrak route that only travels once every few days at best. In addition, being bumped from FC to Y+ on a two hour flight is a minor inconvenience compared to twenty hours of Amtrak coach service.

 

[user 14106]

I find it interesting that members who are so accepting and deferential toward Amtrak staff have no problem telling other customers what they should expect and how it should be judged.

You know you are right - that part of my post was unnecessarily hostile and in the interest of civility I’m going to edit and tone down that post. However in fairness - this discussion has kind of gotten all over the place - starting as a discussion of the new cafe menu and then morphed into a general Amtrak complaining and Amtrak vs airlines debate with a lot of sarcasm such as comparisons of sleepers to hostiles, campgrounds, and greyhound which is silly. So I’m not going to take sole responsibility and I admit I got a little heated with all the sarcasm flying around.

I have no criticism of what peoples expectations are and how they spend their money. I’ve said multiple times that Amtrak overnight travel one isn’t for everyone and two people use for different reasons. If you and others feel Amtrak as it currently is isn’t worth your money - that’s great people should spend their money on whatever makes them happy. I really just felt the discussion was going all over the place and I went overboard.

I’m not sure totally what you’re getting at with the “so accepting and deferential to Amtrak staff” this is an Amtrak forum (not airliners.net) after all so naturally some people are going to be defensive of Amtrak - especially when one doesn’t have the option of flying. But again i got belligerent in my response and for that I take responsibility.

I will say outright - yes I’m not on the “conspiracy to destroy all long distance trains” bandwagon. Not going to go too farther into that given this is supposed to be about Amtrak dining and there’s plenty of other threads to debate that. (Not saying you or others in this discussion are - but there obviously are some of us on AU that are.)

 

[user 14106]

Most any American who pays to fly first class would take an overnight train in Europe without hesitation so saying that people who fly wouldn’t take a train is not the case.

I actually also would like to see Amtrak do a more first class premium product - like what VIA does with prestige class. But something like that isn’t likely to hit every train and isn’t going to happen anytime soon. I didn’t mean to imply that no one who flies FC would do a sleeper on Amtrak - but certainly not everyone would. 24 hours - 2.5 days on a train isn’t for everyone. And there are also people who ride Amtrak in sleepers that aren’t price and amenity comparing to first class flights. Some people find train travel relaxing, and less stressful and are not just doing a direct comparison of food and service. I am sure that there are airlines that do a more consistent job then Amtrak in that regard. But again for one who finds train travel attractive for the reasons I stated a sleeper is certainly a worthwhile investment to have a lie flat private room - I wouldn’t travel on an overnight train in coach and while I won’t and can’t fly I’d drive in that case. I would certainly submit that if Amtrak jazzed up its offering it would appeal to a wider customer base. But I would also state that comparing to hostiles, Greyhound, and campgrounds that some others have stated is a bit silly. In none of those places do you get an attendant to make and turn up your bed or bring you food. Even coach on Amtrak is eons better than Greyhound.

 

[user 14106]

I guess I'm an exception. I fly first class always. In summer I travel from south Florida for my summer trip to Wyoming landing in Salt Lake City. With due respect to TheCresent Delta fares are no where near $500. Try $850-$2000. One way. The food if you get anything besides snacks is ok and the beer has been just below room temperature for the last three years so I send back to get it iced for a bit. Service is decent. But I get there in 3-4 hrs which is my only goal and then drive to my ultimate destination. Coming back home to Florida I prefer the slow overnight train trips in a sleeper bedroom or a Viewliner roomette is fine for the down home east coast leg and dont care that much about the food on any train. Over the last 30 years for me the best food has been fresh cooked breakfast and dinner desserts. The rest of the food has been ok at best. I like the general dining experience and meeting others but dining is not my primary reason for train travel. The overall train experience has significant room for improvement for sure.

I have two train trips back to Florida starting on Sept 10 so I'll see how it goes this year. Ill try some new things in the cafe and have some flex food and do a brief report after I'm home.

Well I really meant not everyone I didn’t mean no one. Basically the point was - overnight on a train is not for everyone and especially not two nights. Some people just don’t have the patience for it and some do and just because someone would pay first class on an airline doesn’t automatically mean they’d consider overnight Amtrak travel. The markets and products aren’t identical or directly interchangeable - certainly some overlap but not Totally the same. And even for people that are open to overnight Amtrak some people view the trip length as a con when comparing and doing pros and cons while others don’t mind it and simply find it more relaxing.

 

[Sauve850]

Well I really meant not everyone I didn’t mean no one. Basically the point was - overnight on a train is not for everyone and especially not two nights. Some people just don’t have the patience for it and some do and just because someone would pay first class on an airline doesn’t automatically mean they’d consider overnight Amtrak travel. The markets and products aren’t identical or directly interchangeable - certainly some overlap but not Totally the same.

I know.

 

[amy1277]

I guess I'm an exception. I fly first class always. In summer I travel from south Florida for my summer trip to Wyoming landing in Salt Lake City. With due respect to TheCresent Delta fares are no where near $500. Try $850-$2000. One way. The food if you get anything besides snacks is ok and the beer has been just below room temperature for the last three years so I send back to get it iced for a bit. Service is decent. But I get there in 3-4 hrs which is my only goal and then drive to my ultimate destination. Coming back home to Florida I prefer the slow overnight train trips in a sleeper bedroom or a Viewliner roomette is fine for the down home east coast leg and dont care that much about the food on any train. Over the last 30 years for me the best food has been fresh cooked breakfast and dinner desserts. The rest of the food has been ok at best. I like the general dining experience and meeting others but dining is not my primary reason for train travel. The overall train experience has significant room for improvement for sure.

I have two train trips back to Florida starting on Sept 10 so I'll see how it goes this year. Ill try some new things in the cafe and have some flex food and do a brief report after I'm home.

I’ll be traveling to Florida the week after you so I’ll stay tuned for your report on the flex and cafe food! Thanks!

 

[MARC Rider]

All the comments about the quality of Amtrak sleeper service and comparisons with airline first class service miss the point about Amtrak. Passenger rail isn't subsidized by the taxpayers in order to run first class service on the trains -- even in the NEC, maybe the only part of Amtrak that offers real first-class service, Acela First Class is a miniscule sliver of the total number of riders who use the service. This is also true for the airlines. In the domestic market, the airlines have been making their money selling "cheap" fare tickets in cramped cabins with minimal in-flight service for almost 20 years now. Most passengers are looking for cheap fares, not first class service. In fact, for those traveling on business, the boss won't pay for anything other than coach.

Amtrak is justified in running premium services to the extent that they can make enough extra "gravy" that it can cross-subsidize the essential service that the taxpayers are supporting. It may well be that on some trains, a reincarnation of the Super Chief might well pay off, but doing so might not be universally financially successful across the network. After all, the AT&SF didn't run the Super Chief on all its routes, either.

A case can be made that for the longer distance trains that less expensive sleeping accommodations and better food service is needed to attract ridership to meet the basic mission of the service, but it's not clear that it needs to be done at the level of the crack streamliners of the past.

Anyway, right now, in my opinion, the real priorities are getting enough staff on board so that they can run a diner and a cafe car at the same time, they can get enough equipment back to end the cancellations," and that they can keep the rolling stock in good mechanical condition so the trains aren't breaking down in the middle of nowhere.

 

[TheCrescent]

I’d like to see Amtrak try an improved long-distance train, using airline ideas:

1. Multiple classes of coach (including Basic Economy and Main Cabin Extra or whatever Amtrak wants to call it.

2. Multiple classes of sleeping car accommodations, including a Slumbercoach-type thing and a super-premium offering.

3. Lots of marketing.

4. A schedule that has a departure in a major metro in the evening and an arrival in a major metro in the morning.

Amtrak, just try this for three months and report back on how it goes.

 

[crescent-zephyr]

But by all means, continue to rant about how bad management is with nothing to back it up. It's entertaining to read.

Considering the topic of this thread only, how would you rate current Amtrak management and how they have handled it? It seems pretty bad to me. On a scale of 1-10 I would give them maybe a 2 or 3 since they did at least offer me a free upgrade.